Curse

phooka · Dec 01, 2006, 12:27 PM // 12:27

Hi everyone… first of all, my apologies, since I am both new to this site, and an absolute noob to GW... I hope I did post in the right forum at least!

I am writing an article for a Spanish computing mag. Until now I have been focusing on map editors / mod development tools for RTS and FPS, but I guess it is time for Guild Wars…

For this article I have decided to talk about good builds for PvP games. I have only played Factions for around 7-8 hours. However, I have read a few dozen articles/guides, trying to make sense of the best builds for PvP (although I have only played three PvP games, where I was annihilated with shameful ease!)

My problem is the following: there are dozens of guides around, and although each guide implies that there is not a “perfect build”, I am sure that there are still some builds that stand out, which are used for good competitive PvP and GvG games… However, there are so many contradictions! i.e. I read a commercial guide for GuildWars which implied that all primary and secondary combinations were quite good! Now even me noob knows that this is not true, and some combinations are just plain horrible. Or at least I think they are...

So if you guyz could please direct me to proper builds (meaning builds that are using for competitive games by competitive/good teams, instead of theorical approaches to the issue), and also to good 4v4 and 8v8 combinations, I would be more than grateful. I have checked the builds section in this very site, but again, I do not know if those are top notch ones or not… If they are, i guess that there is enough there to make a good article!

I would be also grateful if someone has a good idea for a Dervish and Paragon pvp build (as primary professions)…

Best regards! ?

P$ I hated every second of the first 5 hours of playing GW. However, something suddenly clicked in my brain after the 6 hour, and I am absolutely hooked to the game now! Time to forget FPS methinks!

Emu · Dec 01, 2006, 01:08 PM // 13:08

hmmm, I'm pretty shameful at pvp myself but I can point you here:
http://guildwars.com/competitive/gwfc/skillusage/

This would be what the very best were using a couple months back (pre-nightfall).

Thom Bangalter · Dec 01, 2006, 01:10 PM // 13:10

Normally I would just type out what most european guilds are running (Eurospike, with two warriors, two mesmers, 1 paragon, 2 monks, and a water runner) but I don't even know if people are running that now that it was nerfed yesterday. I also wouldn't use any of the championship builds because 1) championships work differently than regular ladder play, and 2) Nightfall's power creep has changed the game. I don't know when your deadline for the article is either, and when it will see print.

Obviously for an article we want something indicitive of what new players could play to improve...i.e. no gimmick builds like obs flame spike, blood spike, or iway 2.0* (not that I'm trying to start a flame war, I love all 3 builds).

You're really asking this at an odd time because the build dominating the meta has just been nerfed, so I don't know if we're going to see a resurgence of old builds like KGYU's pressure condition and thumperway. WTB a mod now...

phooka · Dec 01, 2006, 01:54 PM // 13:54

Thx a lot 4 the feedback guys... I still have a couple of months till I start writting... however, since I "know nothing" about this type of games, I want to collect plenty of info before I actually write...

Referring to the complexity of the article: I am always asked to make things REALLY easy for the readers, and therefore I just want simple, good PvP stuff; even if it's not the best, or if it's not brilliant for all type of gameplays, the idea is that any player can get good ideas to develop a good PvP player after playing PvE...

Again cheers, I will try to write an article that is worthy of this cool game/community!

Gracias,
David

OrangHebat · Dec 01, 2006, 05:25 PM // 17:25

If you have few months before you'll have to write the article, try to play some pvp and do obs mode. That might give you some idea on how does general pvp mechanic works and what build is dominating, pros and cons, etc. Instead of thinking this build rocked because #1 guild was using it, think why it is good and what are the pros and cons.

In addition I'm on the opinion that most combinations for primary and secondary are good or at least acceptable (and there's defenitely some that's just dont synergize well). Only that it depends on what skills you're taking. Lets take an example of the dreaded W/Mo

example of good W/Mo build(not the best, but at least decent) -> You're All Alone ganker with mending touch
example of bad W/Mo build -> Warrior with healing hands, healing breeze, mending, etc.

Also if you decides to go for obs mode, try to watch the European or American team playing rather than Asian team, because European and American tend to use more stable build, while Asian(especially Korean) team tend to experiment alot with their builds.

Makkert · Dec 01, 2006, 05:54 PM // 17:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by phooka

i.e. I read a commercial guide for GuildWars which implied that all primary and secondary combinations were quite good! Now even me noob knows that this is not true, and some combinations are just plain horrible. Or at least I think they are...

Its hard to say that a certain combination of primarary and secondary is downright awfull in all forms of pvp. What is true is that some builds are simply weaker then others. Just because they don't make any sense. Some primarary secondary combinations are more logical then others. The Mo/Me combo was for example quite logical. We had a period where Mo/N was popular. But lately we also have seen Mo/W and Mo/E rising up, and we had/still have a period where Mo/A is popular. So I'd be carefull to say that a certain combo is useless. nerfs and metagame shifts can change the popular picked combo's. Altough not rapid paced at this, it does change.

Quote:

So if you guyz could please direct me to proper builds (meaning builds that are using for competitive games by competitive/good teams, instead of theorical approaches to the issue), and also to good 4v4 and 8v8 combinations, I would be more than grateful. I have checked the builds section in this very site, but again, I do not know if those are top notch ones or not… If they are, i guess that there is enough there to make a good article!

The simplest thing is watching Observer mode. Watch 4 or 5 matches, and I am pretty certain you will see certain characterbuilds regulary among the top 100 guilds, with small tweaks between them depending on the teambuild that they run.

Quote:

I would be also grateful if someone has a good idea for a Dervish and Paragon pvp build (as primary professions)…

Paragon is tricky moment to ask, since today the paragon saw some nerfs. It will take some time before people settle on a para build...

phooka · Dec 01, 2006, 07:02 PM // 19:02

Again, thx for all your comments... I will definitely go into observer mode for a while (which I will find a very stressful process, I cannot imagine watching a videogame without playin it!

).

I guess this should do the trick, I am interested in seeing when each skill is used, and how they combine...

ANd I guess that luckily there will be + info for the 2 new classes b4 I do actually need to start writting. After all, I have to do 2 reports about 2 other games prior to GW...

Regards,
David

icedwhitemocha · Dec 02, 2006, 10:34 AM // 10:34

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10010209

A list of solid character builds used in the Present and Past GvG scene.

shardfenix · Dec 02, 2006, 12:18 PM // 12:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by phooka

P$ I hated every second of the first 5 hours of playing GW. However, something suddenly clicked in my brain after the 6 hour, and I am absolutely hooked to the game now! Time to forget FPS methinks!

Yeah once you get past the "too many buttons/hotkeys" thing, GW becomes almost impossible to put down. Welcome to the game.

I'd say the best way to get builds to use is to watch observe (press b), or visit Guildwars.com. They sometimes have "state of the game" articles which detail some widely used builds (doublecheck the builds on their site, sometimes they put shock on a W/N instead of a W/E)

Generally those are the two best places for getting builds.

Thomas.knbk · Dec 02, 2006, 02:08 PM // 14:08

The best build there is is balanced. The problem is balanced is not really a build, but a collection of a lot of builds. The traditional ones have 2 warrirors, 2 mesmers, 2 E/Mo's one of which is the flag runner and 2 monks. New and improved ones have variations on this. Often one of the E/Mo's or mesmers is substituted for a paragon, or one warrior for an assassin or something like that. Lately we saw a lot of 2 paragon builds, but now that Energizing Finale is nerfed I doubt we will see them in the future.
The strenth of balanced is that in the hands of the right players it can counter virtually everything.
Shardfenix gave a really good advice: press B and learn.

phooka · Dec 02, 2006, 08:42 PM // 20:42

thx guys!

I can say that, even once ive finished the article, I still will pop around, my days in gw have just started!

Of course, I won't be one of em hardcore players (ive got that deadly combo, "strenous job + double kid impact") that keeps me hexed 24/7, but i'll do my best!

David

p$ what on earth is "nerfed"?

does this mean "changed by the gw coders to reduce its impact in the game"? soz, lots of this vocabulary still sounds like Martian 2 me!

Seltack · Dec 02, 2006, 08:55 PM // 20:55

Nerfed basically means toned down by the developers in a skill balance, especially used when a change is strong enough to make a skill almost useless. (Ether renewal stands out as an example).

I think it comes from the Nerf toys which are usually soft and squishy, often things like toy guns that shoot foam things, hence nerfed means "made nerf like" or "non dangerous".

So yeah, you will pretty much bang on the mark with your description.

Thomas.knbk · Dec 02, 2006, 09:19 PM // 21:19

As opposed to buffed, which is pretty standard english. That would mean "changed by the gw coders to increase it's impact in the game". Spoil Victor stands out as an example there. It used to be around 40dmg per triggering, now it's about 100.