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Nov 28, 2006, 01:29 AM // 01:29
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#1 |
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Jungle Guide
Join Date: Aug 2005
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Conjure XXX worthwhile on a warrior in PvP?
They now add a very healthy chunk of damage with moderate investment and the recharge isn't horrible anymore. Also, relatively few people seem to be packing mass (i.e more than two or three) enchant strips now that you can't rely on /Me and drain enchant for e-management.
I played around with this on a dragon slasher (sever/gash/sun and moon/dragon) and the damage output is hideous. Even more so than Remstar's patented 16 sword/13 strength all offense build with 5 attack skills. Yeah it's just a boring dps machine, but it's really really huge dps, I'm talking about ~84 dps on a softy with a 16/10/9 sword/strength/air layout, and the conjure really pumps up your spike too. If you can drop rez you can throw in shock for some KD action...tasty! Imagine what you could do with weapon of fury on you. *shudder*. Last edited by Symbol; Nov 28, 2006 at 01:41 AM // 01:41.. |
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Nov 28, 2006, 01:48 AM // 01:48
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#2 |
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I'm back?
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Here.
Guild: Delta Formation [DF]
Profession: W/E
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Conjure isn't bad at all now, and if there's a lack of enchantment removal it can be kind of attractive. The problem is, currently there are so many things you want to run in its place.
For pressure, I think Harrier's Grasp is just stronger outright. Spamming cripple on every one of your targets without ever using an elite slot is just insane, especially given the problems a Dragon Slash guy has with kiting. It's not as obvious as big numbers, but the effect of spamming cripples everywhere can be absolutely brutal. For spike, Conjure has potential, but most adreno-spikes right now are running telespike with Shadow Prison. I guess if you were doing a non-tele spike this could be good. For split/skirmish, you really want to use another secondary so you can run around with condition removal. |
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Nov 28, 2006, 01:54 AM // 01:54
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#3 | |
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No power in the verse
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: San Francisco, CA
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Quote:
Of course, if these warriors became popular in TA then enchantment removals would work their way back into builds. Why would you want only 9 in element, but 10 in strength? Strength sucks. If using rush, I would be tempted to go 16 sword, 12 element, 4 strength. |
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Nov 28, 2006, 02:00 AM // 02:00
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#4 | |
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Jungle Guide
Join Date: Aug 2005
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I love Harrier's grasp, but it's a bit spendy on a warrior even with zealous. I'm really liking the idea of one-two punch: an Avatar of Grenth derv with Harrier's and a massive damage template like dragon slasher w. conjure though.
I'm not really considering splits and such-you're not looking for all out damage there and dragon slash is a niche build anyway. Quote:
Last edited by Symbol; Nov 28, 2006 at 02:04 AM // 02:04.. |
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Nov 28, 2006, 03:55 AM // 03:55
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#5 |
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Grindin'
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: MO
Profession: E/Mo
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2 things:
I like conjure spells. Meeting your shield's requirement is good. |
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Nov 28, 2006, 04:22 AM // 04:22
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#6 | |
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No power in the verse
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: San Francisco, CA
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Quote:
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Nov 28, 2006, 04:44 AM // 04:44
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#7 |
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Grindin'
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: MO
Profession: E/Mo
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I agree, I'm really unsure about warrior runing nowadays since I haven't played one in about 3 months.
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Nov 28, 2006, 04:25 PM // 16:25
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#8 |
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Desert Nomad
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: USA: liberating you since 1918.
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Conjure used in sync with stratifying attacks, such as sun and moon slash or whirling axe, has always been attractive for me. However, it's really difficut to justify building a warriror bar around a conjure spell when so many good things can be put into those 7 availiable slots.
I could see it doing well on a 4v4 team, perhaps in sync with an aoe smiter, but anywhere else serious flexibility questions arise. |
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Nov 28, 2006, 04:32 PM // 16:32
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#9 |
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Wilds Pathfinder
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Quebec
Guild: Pretty much stopped
Profession: Rt/
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Honestly i think that Conjure Lightning can be a really nice option on a Shock warrior now. Ofc you lower your utility, but you increase your base damage. There is a W/E axe build we used sometimes running 12 Fire, 14 Axe and 9 Strength using Starburst, Dismember and Conjure Flame. Just Conjure in Frenzy at 12 Fire is very high damage on softies, you can spam Dismember and you have AOE to hurt softies in the back. Dismember-Crit Chop-Starburst is a pretty nice spike, and it had the advantage of having a part of it sure to hit.
There is one extremely good thing about Conjures that many seem to forget/ignore and it's that Conjure ALWAYS hits before your attack. This means that RoF can NEVER affect your main attack if you're in Conjure because all it will do is stop the Conjure damage (which is still usually very low). This drastically reduce the efficiency of RoF as base heal because against a Conjure warrior it usually results in around 60-70 heal (DF + around 10-15 damage saved and 10-15 heal) and since many monks use it it can be very powerful to pressure. I think that this is overall the main reason i'd run Conjure in GvG. As for enchant removal, honestly it doesn't matter nearly as much now as it did before when Conjure was at 60s recharge. Conjure lasts very long and recharges in 30s, so most of the time if it's removed you can just recast it. If your team runs Aegis chain, it will be covered most of the time, and more importantly they will want to keep their enchant removal to spike too. Removing Conjure can be fun and all, but if your melee isn't ever able to spike cause the other team is in Aegis maybe there is better things to do with your enchant removal skills than remove Conjures. So unless you're facing massive enchant removal (which you nearly never see) it's not that likely to be removed often. |
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Nov 28, 2006, 04:42 PM // 16:42
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#10 |
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Grindin'
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: MO
Profession: E/Mo
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One problem is that paragons>pressure, but the fact that conjure hits before rof means that your spikes are better, but then you go w/e instead of w/a and lose shadow prison, which means you have to be *gasp* good at warrior.
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Nov 28, 2006, 04:55 PM // 16:55
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#11 | |
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Academy Page
Join Date: May 2006
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Quote:
The problem with Sonjure Lightning is basically what Squidget said: There#s so much other good stuff to take. Protector's Strike, Bull's Strike, HealSig, Harrier's Haste/Grasp, Shock, Song Of Concentration/Brace Yourself for Tombsing, Shadow Prison/Death's Charge, Lyssa's balance, Sig of Malice, Purge Sig, Plague Touch and all the other stuff you can take on a war like Tiger's Fury, Gale, Way of the fox omg there's so much stuff I want to have on my war. You see: the only build where you want to take a DragonSlash/Conjure is where you a. need pressure b. don't need a knockdown c. can't use conditions d. don't need self survivability e. don't want to run Protector's Strike for any reason f. don't want to run any of the skills mentioned above for any reason The only build I can think of is a TA team with 1 migmes interrupter scrub that babysits your enemy's monk so he has no choice but to spam rof which gets kinda useless. Last edited by ~Vanilla~; Nov 28, 2006 at 04:59 PM // 16:59.. |
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Nov 28, 2006, 05:03 PM // 17:03
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#12 |
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Jungle Guide
Join Date: Aug 2005
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Harrier's is 10E every 25s or so, which eats up most of your base regen. You have very little left for frenzy though taking zealous might solve that problem. IMO it's best placed on a dervish who gets a rebate from mysticism and can do other useful things as well.
Again, I'm not considering this as a generic warrior template, it's for when you just want maximum damage. Usually you'd take prot strike in that last slot, but IMO conjure is strictly superior in the absence of frequent enchant stripping. The point that Patccmoi makes about conjure hitting first and triggering RoF is pretty significant. I wasn't aware of this behaviour, but it makes conjure even more attractive since it adds to your pressure if your opponents can't mitigate damage with reversal spam. Last edited by Symbol; Nov 28, 2006 at 05:11 PM // 17:11.. |
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Nov 28, 2006, 05:15 PM // 17:15
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#13 |
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Academy Page
Join Date: May 2006
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25 * (4 / 3) = 33.3333333 (1)
So you have 23 energy left for frenzy. In 25 seconds, you can use Frenzy 3.125 times, which equals 15.625 if used perfectly. This leaves you with 7.375 energy left, every 25 seconds. (1) Assuming you hit everytime and your enemy isnt kiting. Oh, and you have to consider that you can't have to take an elemental prefix, which leaves you without vampiric or zealous upgrade. But I agree, Conjure XXX kinda got buffed, less enchant removal, no extra elemental armor for rangers (everyone takes vs physical or +health, amirite?). Last edited by ~Vanilla~; Nov 28, 2006 at 05:23 PM // 17:23.. |
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Nov 28, 2006, 05:47 PM // 17:47
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#14 | ||
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Jungle Guide
Join Date: Aug 2005
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Quote:
Quote:
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Nov 28, 2006, 08:24 PM // 20:24
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#15 | |
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Jungle Guide
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: UK
Guild: Charr Women [hawt]
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Quote:
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Nov 28, 2006, 09:36 PM // 21:36
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#16 |
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Banned
Join Date: Mar 2006
Profession: W/E
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For a pure dps machine, strenght of honor from a smiter + conjure + sever, gash, sun and moon, and dragon slash could have some promising results.
It would be much more HA oriented, but running this could give you some interesting results. 1)Sever 2)Gash 3)Sun and Moon Slash 4)Dragon Slash 5)Frenzy/Flail 6)Sprint/Rush 7)Conjure Lightning/fire/whatever 8)Res sig |
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Nov 28, 2006, 10:15 PM // 22:15
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#17 | ||
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Academy Page
Join Date: May 2006
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Quote:
Quote:
And I don't know if you get this, but perma-cripple is so much more pressure than +14 damage. And it's great to RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO with incoming emoflaggers. |
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Nov 28, 2006, 11:16 PM // 23:16
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#18 | |
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Desert Nomad
Join Date: Apr 2006
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Quote:
One thing though, easy doesn't = good. |
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Nov 29, 2006, 12:17 AM // 00:17
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#19 |
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I'm back?
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Here.
Guild: Delta Formation [DF]
Profession: W/E
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Builds that spike exclusively with Shadow Prison are no better, skillwise, than builds that spike exclusively with casters or rangers. The same can be said for most pure warriorspike builds though.
These builds resemble an old school balanced pressure if you just look at the professions, so guilds that run them don't get nearly as much flak as that run bloodspike or ranger spike. It's ultimately the same thing though. |
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Nov 29, 2006, 12:27 AM // 00:27
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#20 | |
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Forge Runner
Join Date: Nov 2005
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Quote:
The only difference is that Shadow Prison has made it much better, allowing teleporting non-kitable spikes every 20 sec. I just hate this metagame, and I really don't think that it's any better than the obsflame metagame of last season. |
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