Curse

Thomas.knbk · Nov 27, 2006, 03:56 PM // 15:56

Old version without the dervish due to me accidentaly clincking on save instead of preview: http://gwshack.us/9cd26
Version 2.0 http://gwshack.us/2c99c

Idea was to apply a lot of melee pressure with snares to deal with kiting. The dervish probably needs some tweaking since I've never actually played one, but the Avater+draw/wearying seemed fun.. You've got an E/Mo with Eprod and HP at the stand, so I made (read: stole) a runner that's completely focussed on running/skirmishing. The backline is a fairly standard RC/BL one, supported by a paragon with Energizing finale.
Comments?

moriz · Nov 27, 2006, 04:15 PM // 16:15

i'm not sure how your runner's gonna work. it's got shadow of haste, but no cancel stance.

Thomas.knbk · Nov 27, 2006, 04:22 PM // 16:22

lawl, forgot.. updated

Jane Loves You · Dec 04, 2006, 06:46 PM // 18:46

The update killed "Incoming!". 4 secs is it now? and for 10 energy. Tbh, I think its not worth it. Para's got nerfed hard, take another support midliner. Also, Dash>Dark Escape if you are just using it to cancel out Shadow Of Haste. Faster recharge and 5 energy, you dont want to be 30 secs without being able to cancell out SoH.

I Brother Bloood I · Dec 04, 2006, 07:35 PM // 19:35

The problem is do u want to scrap the half damage?

icedwhitemocha · Dec 04, 2006, 08:15 PM // 20:15

Couple things I see:
-You have ONE (two if you count Blight =/ ) condition removal. What are you going to do about Bsurge spam when your avatar is down?
-I can't see much synergy between your choice of melee roles; the sin is a spike/gank build, the dervish is pressure, the linebacker is technically antimelee/utility... How are you going to actually kill stuff?
-Agreed on Dash for the runner. Feigned is plenty of mitigation when you're trying to cap, and a short recharge cancel for ShadowHaste can be key
-Lack of extinguish; depending on where you are in the ladder cond pressure is still out there
-Vs a hex team you should be able to hold your own, but if they can keep your melee stacked it's gg... 20s recharge on convert hurts
-Not sure if you want to keep the para; IMO there are better options since the nerfs
-You have a pretty strong gank team with the shock sin + E/A; if you're not making progress at the stand don't hesitate to proactively gank with these two and have warrior run flags
-Vapor Blade is a spike skill; unless you plan on spiking what's your logic for it being on the bar?

Thomas.knbk · Dec 04, 2006, 08:43 PM // 20:43

First of all, thanks for the feedback.
Most of what was said here made sense. I'll try to fit it in. Exept for the condition removal remark. I count four. five if you count Blessed Light. Are you sure you don't mean hex removal?
The paragon needs to be replaced. Pre-nerf they were so strong you had to be retarded not to use one, but it's really mediocre(sp?) now. Any suggestions on what to run instead?
I think I will keep the sin, because like you said I have a very strong gank team with the A/E+E/A. Linebacker will be replaced. Not sure about the dervish.
More hex removal is definitely needed. I think holy veil instead of mend aliment on the Blight, but will that be enough?

Kabale · Dec 06, 2006, 04:02 PM // 16:02

I don't think Vapor Blade is a good skill choice as you have no guaranteed way of ensuring an enchant-free opponent.

Also, I'm not sure about the Draw on the Dervish, same goes for Imbue Health. Whenever I play a melee-char, I never have time to sit and watch the health bars of my teammates; I'm always focused on the enemy. Perhaps this is just because I've played too much Monk and have grown tired of the red bars

but when I play Warrior it's a completely different game for me.

That aside, I would agree on dropping the Paragon for something more useful. As this seems to be more of a defensive flag-stand build than offensive, I would either put in a Mesmer or Ele to shut down offense (Bsurge/flash, Diversion, blackout, Aegis, etc.). It really depends on what you would want to do with the build. I'm more in favor of running something offensive at the stand, but this is probably because I try not to build gank-setups. Bringing heavy offense is especially powerful now as Monks have to get used to not overspending energy with the removal of Energizing Finale.

IMO drop the Linebacker for a typical offensive Warrior - I doubt with the amount of damage floating around he'll have time to actually be useful.
Also, Melee pressure in itsef is very difficult to pull off, you really need some form of constant damage complementing the Dervish/Warrior's. For example, QQ's build which has a smiter dealing crazy damage from the Dervish. Searing Flames can be very effective on most maps.

icedwhitemocha · Dec 06, 2006, 09:12 PM // 21:12

Mmmm, for some reason I didn't count the RC. Ok, you have 5 total but can only depend on 2. Mending touch doesn't count, draw conds doesn't count because its not on a midline, Blight doesn't count because it won't be used singly to remove conds. With all the bsurgers running around, asking a monk to remove spammed blinds is a great way to drain energy. Your flagstand ele is the best place to put a draw, that or whatever you replace the para with. I'm really not sure what the idea is with putting the draw on the derv - 1) his attacks cost energy, spamming draw off of the sin or linebacker gimps his potential DPS 2) When his avatar is down (fully half the time), drawing blind becomes like the worst idea ever. You need a way to remove conditions that doesn't depend on monks.

Thomas.knbk · Dec 06, 2006, 10:24 PM // 22:24

http://gwshack.us/2c99c
I've taken your comments into account. The new version is a little more (adrenaline)spike and a little less pressure, but I think it can still pressure very well.
I exchanged Vapor Blade for Extinguish. Don't know why I put that in in the first place.
Paragon was removed in favor of a mesmer.
Dervish was removed. I tried to fill too many roles with it, so I exchanged it for a more specified character. Question on this one: Critical Chop or Bull's Strike?
I'm not really sure about the backbreaker war. It's very open to adrenaline hate (read: blackout), but if we'd be unable to spike for one reason or another, a 4sec KD is a lot of pressure.
Mesmer is to assist spiking and also keeps the warriors clean. I gave him expel because the build is VERY light on hex removal without it.
The A/E and E/A are still a gank team. Should I remove Shadow Refuge for Feigned Neutrality?
I have 4 hexes in the build atm. I have a feeling I should take more, or drop them altogether. Any comments on this?

Symbol · Dec 06, 2006, 10:31 PM // 22:31

The backbreaker-eviscerate combo seems more like a pure adrenospike than pressure to me-it seems like you've done a 180 since your OP-are you sure that's what you want?

If you actually want melee pressure I suggest pairing some big damage template with an avatar of grenth D/W (or even two-you can stagger the forms so you always have one derv ripping down prots).

On your mindshock runner swap dash out for deadly paradox. You can use deadly to cancel SoH, engage feigned neutrality and have your heal be ready in another 12 seconds instead of 25 seconds.

icedwhitemocha · Dec 06, 2006, 11:21 PM // 23:21

-You can keep sprint on the axe since he may be running flags, but I'd put Rush on the Backbreaker. Personal preference to some degree.
-Hammer warrior needs a Deep Wound. BB > Crushing > Mighty is good, don't need Irre that much.
-Critical Chop is a spike skill. Yes you can go around randomly Crit Chopping people, but Bull's Strike is more suited for that. Critical Chop shines on spikes.
-You don't need that much in Water, a 5s gust is fine... You can pump the remnants into either Estorage for a longer prodigy or a bit more powerful HP.
-Expel dom has a good bar, but just realize that that is 100% a spike assist bar. Diversion/Shame a monk before the spike, Eburn/S.Pain on the spike target. Not a bad thing, just like other people have suggested, you're fast moving away from pressure and toward adrenal spike. You really need an enchant removal of some kind on this bar. I dunno if he'll have energy for a Shatter, maybe an Insp enchant, Feedback, or Discharge.
-Personal preference again, but I'd lower prot on the RC for a more powerful Gift.
-I really wish there was a spot on your Sin for mending touch, he'd be a much bigger threat. Dropping his res sig leaves you with only 3 sigs, so I don't think its feasible.... but still.

Thomas.knbk · Dec 08, 2006, 04:08 PM // 16:08

Yeah that's basically what happens every time I try to make a pressure build. I mod some things here, mod some things there, and voila it's turned into an adrenaline spike build. I'm not sure about mending touch on the sin, because that would mean I lose his /E secondary. That means no shock, which means I have to change his entire chain.

Worf · Dec 08, 2006, 04:32 PM // 16:32

[skill]Shadow Prison[/skill][skill]Black Spider Strike[/skill][skill]Twisting Fangs[/skill][skill]Disrupting Stab[/skill][skill]Mending Touch[/skill][skill]Dark Escape[/skill][skill]Feigned Neutrality[/skill][skill]Resurrection Signet[/skill]

Not so much pressure, but it's worth it. You can do also some soloing.