Curse

Patrograd · Nov 30, 2006, 04:38 PM // 16:38

Still seeing this build lose as often as it wins. Teams that split it either win or come close to winning (depends on the damage in the gank and the map), teams that fight it 8v8 seem to get rolled pretty sharply

leeky baby · Nov 30, 2006, 04:57 PM // 16:57

the only times iv seem these teams lose are when you split and gank there lord as it cant split at all.

Patccmoi · Nov 30, 2006, 05:22 PM // 17:22

Hmm, have yet to see this full build in action. We've been using Steady Stance + Desperate/Drunken but i didn't see it as such a problem. It had a nice synergy with Fear Me! but losing the IAS and the cooldown seemed like a fair tradeoff. I guess it depends on the build though.

scamPOR · Nov 30, 2006, 05:31 PM // 17:31

Iway makes up for the ias.... but again it only really works as a full build.

tomcruisejr · Nov 30, 2006, 06:28 PM // 18:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byron

I'm sure Anet just overlooked the effects of steady stance on the drunken/desperation tactic.

Putting Steady Stance and Desperation/Drunken Blow (along with "Fear Me!") under the same attribute line doesn't look like an accident/stupid mistake to me.

twas intended omg!

Burton2000 · Nov 30, 2006, 06:40 PM // 18:40

Well since most teams run this build on fire map so you cant split. The easy way to beat it is just repeatadly kill the paragons. Without the paragons they cant remove blind or heal.

Zeldawind · Nov 30, 2006, 07:22 PM // 19:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burton2000

Well since most teams run this build on fire map so you cant split. The easy way to beat it is just repeatadly kill the paragons. Without the paragons they cant remove blind or heal.

your right there but most teams dont spike fast enough to kill them before the pressure starts to take over of your team

I Brother Bloood I · Nov 30, 2006, 07:29 PM // 19:29

I ran with a friends guild yesterday vs this build. We had 3 e surge mesmers ,1 YAA ganker, 1 Shadow Prison warrior, Me as WoH(dont ask why woh in gvg i still havent figured that part out yet), 1 divert monk, Mo/E flag runner(Havent figured that out either...><). We rolled over them easily. Probably because we had aegis chain but w/e. Basicly if u can hold out till vod then gank vs these teams its a very simple win.

Byron · Nov 30, 2006, 10:59 PM // 22:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomcruisejr

Putting Steady Stance and Desperation/Drunken Blow (along with "Fear Me!") under the same attribute line doesn't look like an accident/stupid mistake to me.

twas intended omg!

I might see that way if not for the bloody e-management aspect. That's just rediculous IMHO.

It seems more like an elite running skill. (balanced stance)

MaaKotka · Nov 30, 2006, 11:41 PM // 23:41

I have met this build only once. To play against it is pretty much same as playing against iway or thumperway. At first we met then at flagstand and soon noticed, that pressure is too much to bear so we retreated to our npcs. There we got couple of kills and then retreated to our guildlord and they followed. There it was easy to kill them and then we repeated same couple of times, when they got enough dp for us to kill them without npc support. After that game was pretty much won.

The key for winning that kind of team is to shut down their paragorns and make their warriors to get dp at same time lowering pressure. That pressure is big, but most balanced teams should be able to stand it for a some time. I really don't understand how that build can farm 1200+ rating guilds, they should be good enough to win those matches by using some strategy.

Manfred · Dec 01, 2006, 01:27 AM // 01:27

They hardly overlooked drunken/desperation... that's pretty much what steady is made for.

Fear me is a nice application and the motivation paragons are interesting though only possible in this sort of build.

Lord Ares Maximus · Dec 01, 2006, 02:03 AM // 02:03

the paragons can be just as easily taken out for monks. The build would be just as effective, the trapper can br dropped for a taint etc, this build is flexible and can be modded, as the whole purpose of this build is to e-denial the crap out of everything to the point where they drop like flies as they have no energy for defence or energy for offence for that matter.

Have tested it, and from my experienced, correct me if im wrong, but by doing drunken/desperate while in steady stance even while blinded/warded/aegis you still get the adrenaline :P

If this is correct this poses a big problem, as whatever anyone uses to combat this build, eventually, whatever their using, they wont be able to maintain.

Oh, and lets not forget, now that energizing finale is nerfed, this is going to pose an even bigger problem. I would like to see teams cope with the e-denial of potentially 32 energy loss every 10 seconds roughly, in a radious i might add (possibly, and most likely hitting multiple apponents)

Ec]-[oMaN · Dec 01, 2006, 03:14 AM // 03:14

It's beatdown time ares, let there be light for beat down builds. Or every1 can pack at least 2x blinding surge.

Tortoise · Dec 01, 2006, 03:55 AM // 03:55

If there is any question about the build being horrible, guild statistics from Savios ist Pizza holen:

From rank 140 to rank 8 in two days. +300 rating... And that were just the statistics from yesterday and the day before that.

From never being top 100 to top 10, if that doesn't reek of imbalance I don't know what does...

Lord Ares Maximus · Dec 01, 2006, 04:07 AM // 04:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tortoise

If there is any question about the build being horrible, guild statistics from Savios ist Pizza holen:

From rank 140 to rank 8 in two days. +300 rating... And that were just the statistics from yesterday and the day before that.

From never being top 100 to top 10, if that doesn't reek of imbalance I don't know what does...

agreed. They are r3 last i checked on ob mode tonight...

tomcruisejr · Dec 01, 2006, 05:20 AM // 05:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tortoise

From never being top 100 to top 10, if that doesn't reek of imbalance I don't know what does...

maybe the concept of having 2-3 monks and 6-5 other crap is obsolete? maybe time to revamp the generic build?

Wasteland Squidget · Dec 01, 2006, 05:32 AM // 05:32

IWAY is successful at the moment because a lot of the teams at the top have no idea how to deal with pressure. All the teams with crappy monks that broke to IWAY-style pressure were able to spike or split their way to the top because of Energizing Finale. Now that Energizing Finale has been destroyed, heavy pressure builds are going to crush a lot of the high-ranked teams.

It won't be long before capable teams make their way back up and the C+spacing teams start losing matches again. I imagine a well-played IWAY could continue to hold a spot though, if it was modded to allow for effective splitting.

tomcruisejr · Dec 01, 2006, 05:40 AM // 05:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wasteland Squidget

IWAY is successful at the moment because a lot of the teams at the top have no idea how to deal with pressure. All the teams with crappy monks that broke to IWAY-style pressure were able to spike or split their way to the top because of Energizing Finale. Now that Energizing Finale has been destroyed, heavy pressure builds are going to crush a lot of the high-ranked teams.

It won't be long before capable teams make their way back up and the C+spacing teams start losing matches again. I imagine a well-played IWAY could continue to hold a spot though, if it was modded to allow for effective splitting.

/signed

toss in nerfs too. that's how things work.

scamPOR · Dec 01, 2006, 10:06 AM // 10:06

They were beating teams with 2 x incoming and EF prior to nerf.... Still QQ flawlessed them with a monk e7ing half way in, so I suppose it's hardly impossible to do.

Zeldawind · Dec 01, 2006, 11:28 AM // 11:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by scamPOR

They were beating teams with 2 x incoming and EF prior to nerf.... Still QQ flawlessed them with a monk e7ing half way in, so I suppose it's hardly impossible to do.

like i already said earlier in the thread teams whit good positioning can beat it easier then average guilds whit not as good positioning really. But it also kinda depends on your counters to warrior hate and how good the monks are whit focus swapping for hiding nrg

.
But like already said this meta allows this build to exist. Although whit the paragorn nerf the meta should change really whit more warrior hate maybe to fit in wards. That will help to reduce the effectivness aswell. kiting through ward against foes ftw