Curse

Patrograd · Dec 03, 2006, 04:34 PM // 16:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shaq

no we wont as I said it is a pug guild it will be disbanded @ ladder freeze

KK

Well, good luck for the rest of the season, this steady stance abuse has been fun to watch, even though I think quite a few people are catching onto how to beat it now.

Good job anyway :-)

twicky_kid · Dec 03, 2006, 04:47 PM // 16:47

Any form of hexes will destroy IWAY.

Paragons can heal and remove conditions. They cannot however remove any hexes. Shared burden comes to mind for an aoe hex snare. Water eles work fine too.

Split ganks do work but have to be careful. IWAY can roll your base fast.

KOREAN SPLIT FTW!!!!

Just have guys running everywhere most teams get confused

Lightbulb · Dec 03, 2006, 06:59 PM // 18:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Legendary Shiz

Wow, that's uber lame tbh.

Why exactly?

Bloodied Blade · Dec 03, 2006, 07:16 PM // 19:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lightbulb

Why exactly?

It seemed to me like IWAY always was lacking anything actually creative... They rely on "c" + "spacebar" to win and occassionally mash the button for iway. Granted, some guilds are taking it more effectively than that, but it's basically what you do with the build.

Balanced imo is just more fun to play as/fight against.

Lord Mendes · Dec 03, 2006, 08:51 PM // 20:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bloodied Blade

It seemed to me like IWAY always was lacking anything actually creative... They rely on "c" + "spacebar" to win and occassionally mash the button for iway. Granted, some guilds are taking it more effectively than that, but it's basically what you do with the build.

If you think that a handfull of ex-iA members and members of numerous top 10 guilds are simply mashing c + spacebar, then you are very mistaken.

JR · Dec 03, 2006, 09:01 PM // 21:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrograd

Well, good luck for the rest of the season, this steady stance abuse has been fun to watch, even though I think quite a few people are catching onto how to beat it now.

Split - because they have very very limited healing? Not sure why that took anyone longer than 20 seconds to work out.

Not that I think it's particularly well balanced...

Hauki · Dec 03, 2006, 09:50 PM // 21:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrograd

KK

Well, good luck for the rest of the season, this steady stance abuse has been fun to watch, even though I think quite a few people are catching onto how to beat it now.

Good job anyway :-)

I would call it "Brace Yourself!" abuse, rather than Steady Stance abuse. Although, no one seems to have caught on to that bit so far in this thread.
Can anyone say +67 damage orders?

Patccmoi · Dec 03, 2006, 10:24 PM // 22:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hauki

I would call it "Brace Yourself!" abuse, rather than Steady Stance abuse. Although, no one seems to have caught on to that bit so far in this thread.
Can anyone say +67 damage orders?

Is this actually abused in the build? I didn't get a chance to obs it yet but if it is it must definitely be devastating. I just kinda wonder how Motivation Paragons can also fit enough point in Command to abuse it, but then again it's not like i play Paragon much. I guess you could forget spear totally.

We used for fun D/W with Soldier's Stance-Desperate-Drunken at 16 Scythe-12 Tactics and a Paragon on his back using Lead the Way!-Brace Yourself!... if you get a DW and double crit (first usually insured by GftE!) this thing can 2 shot kill a caster, so you take down a 60-70 AL target in around 1s on your own. But ofc it's a bug abuse, we didn't use it in GvG (not yet anyway ^^).

And btw Lead the Way! Paragon + Solier's Stance makes for a really cool replacement to RaO.

I Brother Bloood I · Dec 03, 2006, 11:45 PM // 23:45

If this becomes a larger problem than it already is anet will probably nerf the skill so it doesnt work with self inflicting knockdown which would make it absolutley crap. Imo its overpowered but i dunno maybe its just me.

Legendary Shiz · Dec 03, 2006, 11:48 PM // 23:48

It's not really overpowered, since the self inflicted kds aren't overly powerful themselves. It's clever, and it works OK but it's not imba IMO.

Hauki · Dec 04, 2006, 03:28 AM // 03:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Legendary Shiz

It's not really overpowered, since the self inflicted kds aren't overly powerful themselves. It's clever, and it works OK but it's not imba IMO.

No, the issue is with Drunken/Desperation and "Brace Yourself!" which currently doesn't end, as the description states it should. At this point, Drunken/Desperation basically reads "If this attack hits, you strike for +103 damage and your target suffers from one of the following conditions. Gain 3 Adrenaline and 7 Energy." Keep in mind, you're also dual-slotting this skill which is already only on a 7r.

In answer to Patccmoi, yes it's abused by anyone who knows wtf they're doing. As to the random lower ranked guilds currently running IWAY, I don't honestly know if they're abusing it, but the ones who are having any appreciable success with it certainly are.

Patrograd · Dec 04, 2006, 09:17 AM // 09:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

Split - because they have very very limited healing? Not sure why that took anyone longer than 20 seconds to work out.

Not that I think it's particularly well balanced...

We havent played Brb or Nox, and I imagine they play it much stronger than the rank 200-300 teams we typically run into, but we found the strongest counter to it is to pressure out the paragons, who tend to fall over pretty quickly under pressure. Splitting basically involves a gank race, and while this works too (was the first counter we tried) it adds imo an uneccessary element of risk and on Burning, where these teams habitually reside, splitting is often easier said than done despite the gimped sentinels, it basically takes just a little too long to get through them.

JR · Dec 04, 2006, 09:19 AM // 09:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrograd

We havent played Brb or Nox, and I imagine they play it much stronger than the rank 200-300 teams we typically run into, but we found the strongest counter to it is to pressure out the paragons, who tend to fall over pretty quickly under pressure. Splitting basically involves a gank race, and while this works too (was the first counter we tried) it adds imo an uneccessary element of risk and on Burning, where these teams habitually reside, splitting is often easier said than done despite the gimped sentinels, it basically takes just a little too long to get through them.

Really depends on your build. If you have the offense to take down and DP Paragons quickly - whilst retaining the defense to hold up against the Warriors - then you can always try. Splitting is much more generally a solid way to beat it though, although obviously tricky on Burning.

Lorinda · Dec 04, 2006, 10:10 AM // 10:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

Any form of hexes will destroy IWAY.

Paragons can heal and remove conditions. They cannot however remove any hexes. Shared burden comes to mind for an aoe hex snare. Water eles work fine too.

Split ganks do work but have to be careful. IWAY can roll your base fast.

KOREAN SPLIT FTW!!!!

Just have guys running everywhere most teams get confused

Hex stack ftw

*cough* Iway is a shout*cough* (looks at necro line, yep spell is still there)

Watermages are not very commen but in the right hands they are more then just annowing slowspammers.
But a good splitbuild will rock them too.

I Brother Bloood I · Dec 04, 2006, 07:33 PM // 19:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lorinda

*cough* Iway is a shout*cough* (looks at necro line, yep spell is still there)

Dont forget fear me.

Patccmoi · Dec 04, 2006, 09:54 PM // 21:54

We tried it for fun on a smurf last night cause some guildies didn't feel like playing seriously so i finally got to try it first hand.

Now i'm not sure what everyone run exactly atm, but while the build remains quite gimmicky i still felt that it's much more balanced than people make it out to be.

We faced splits and beat them (didn't face top 100 guild though, best was 118 i think), and Paragons didn't die much at all. Combination of They're on Fire!, 2 Anthem of Flames and Flame Traps added pretty good protection, they have decent healing overall and mostly the D/N is a pretty damn good healer. Not the kind of healer that would allow a Mesmer to stay alive when pressured, but considering more or less all you have to heal is IWAY warriors and Paragons, Imbue Health and Signet of Pious Light (which can easily be used every 5s to drop OoV and if required can be used 3-4 times in a row eating all the enchants on your back) are actually very good healing. I was playing the Derv and could keep Paragons alive pretty well (ofc they were healing themselves on top too).

We had Purifying Finale and Purifying Chant so condition control was there. The obvious weakness is a major lack of hex control.

But i didn't feel the build as 'imbalanced' (not related to over/underpowered but as balanced vs gimmick) as people often make it out to be. I'm not gonna try to argue that it's balanced and can take on any kind of build, it clearly isn't, but not by nearly as big margin as i expected.

I was also wondering how it'd be to add a Wind Dervish in there (going for 3 Wars-2 Paragons-1 Ranger-1 D/N-1 Wind) using Arcane Zeal and doing some heal with Mystic Healing/Watchful Intervention/Imbue Health and possibly using Holy Veil for hex management. With OoV ending to provide him with an extra enchant and a constant flow of energy, he could spam Mystic Healing non-stop for free, has pretty strong direct healings, could snare targets using a Recurve Bow + Harrier's Grasp, and maybe do some AOE nuke with Mystic Twister (at 14 Winds it's 119 damage Area AOE every 12s, not bad for pressure).

While i think this build remains overall pretty gimmicky, it made me wonder though how much people limit themselves in what they consider a balanced build. I know for most it nearly always means 2 melee-2 monks-1/2 Mes-Runner, etc. But can't you reach a similar balanced state with a completely different setup using Paragon/Dervish for Prots support, etc.? I mean, 2 Paragons-2 Derv-3 Wars-1 Ranger uses as many classes as 2 Wars-2 Monks-2 Eles-2 Mesmers and with secondaries can cover quite a bit of what's needed.

Wasteland Squidget · Dec 04, 2006, 11:30 PM // 23:30

I played the build in a PuG last night, as one of the warriors. The warrior bars don't have room for any utility and can't use stances, so they really get their faces rocked by basic kiting - the only really dangerous thing they do is act as a Fear Me turret.

Splits also rock the build pretty hard. There are plenty of tools you can send back for base defense (a warrior and the dervish will beat most gank teams), but losing the warrior at the stand can make it difficult to force kills if they have a lot of stand defense.

I don't think the build is weak and I'm sure it could beat bad teams, but as a whole it doesn't seem particularly imba. The only thing that stands out is the interaction between Steady Stance, Drunken Blow, and Fear Me giving a really massive amount of energy denial if the warriors are able to hit things.

Divineshadows · Dec 05, 2006, 01:40 AM // 01:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wasteland Squidget

The only thing that stands out is the interaction between Steady Stance, Drunken Blow, and Fear Me giving a really massive amount of energy denial if the warriors are able to hit things.

if the warriors are able to swing at things. Actually hitting is not a requirement to still cause massive energy denial. Sure you gain only 3 adrenaline rather than 4 if your hit misses due to blind/evade/block etc. so your energy denial goes down, but it is still far more energy denial than what a warrior should be able to inflict.

JR · Dec 05, 2006, 08:51 AM // 08:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divineshadows

if the warriors are able to swing at things. Actually hitting is not a requirement to still cause massive energy denial. Sure you gain only 3 adrenaline rather than 4 if your hit misses due to blind/evade/block etc. so your energy denial goes down, but it is still far more energy denial than what a warrior should be able to inflict.

Actually at 13 Tactics Steady Stance will give you 4 adren regardless of whether you hit or not - still enough to power out the "Fear Me!"'s.

Mystic- · Dec 05, 2006, 09:57 AM // 09:57

We faced BRB on burning Isle and killed their guild lord before they could kill ours...
Ganking imo is safer then trying to pressure out their paragons. Also against some other IWAY guild they went back to stop the gank and we just waited it out till VoD. They lack soo much healing power that their NPC's just get owned immidiently and just pressure their warriors 1 by 1 they will fall. Bear in mind this was against two IWAY guilds who "knew" what they where doing. By this i mean top 50.