Curse

Program Ftw · Dec 08, 2006, 11:02 AM // 11:02

I've just come off a TA run, and was wondering about, how easy (and boring) it is facing Scrubs over, and over again untill you face a 'decent team' and have a really good 15-20 minute game.

So wanting more competition, I had this idea, I thought I would post it up here for you guys/girls to have a look at.

The plan is, that when you "Enter Battle" you will move to "Tier 1" of Team Arenas, this is where you would play untill you reach 10 consecutives. After you have gotten your Glad point, you will be moved to "Tier 2".

Once you enter an "Tier" you can only face other teams in the same "Tier" as you, keeping competition balanced. Here is the plan so far:

Enter TA:

Tier 1
"The entering stage of Team Arenas, you will start in Tier 1 when you "Enter Battle."

Tier 2
"The second stage of Team Arenas, you will play in Tier 2 once you have 10 Consecutive Victorys."

Tier 3
"The third stage of Team Arenas, you will fight in Tier 3 once you have 20 Consecutive Victorys."

Tier 4
"The fourth stage of Team Arenas, you will play in Tier 4 when you have 30 Consecutive Victorys."

Tier 5
"The final stage of Team Arenas, you will enter this arena when you have 40 Consecutive Victorys."

The idea is you can then watch matches on Observer Mode for Tier 4 and 5 play, so people can learn off the best TA teams.

Please leave any comments or ideas you feel you may want to add.

Thanks,
Program~

urania · Dec 08, 2006, 11:19 AM // 11:19

once you'd make a few points you'd prolly most often end up playing one and the same team(s) in tiers 3< or end up playing with lower tiers cause there might not be any team in higher tiers at that time...and i know i wouldn't like playing against same teams over and over again.

nice idea overall though.

Program Ftw · Dec 08, 2006, 11:34 AM // 11:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by urania

once you'd make a few points you'd prolly most often end up playing one and the same team(s) in tiers 3< or end up playing with lower tiers cause there might not be any team in higher tiers at that time...and i know i wouldn't like playing against same teams over and over again.

nice idea overall though.

True, but if you loose/beat the team then they do go back to TA, so you wont see them for a while.

The main problem is running out of teams to face, trying to think of a way to solve it.

Thanks,
Program~

Dzan · Dec 08, 2006, 11:39 AM // 11:39

Most people would quit back after 10 wins.

Zui · Dec 08, 2006, 11:42 AM // 11:42

Agreed.

I suggested somthing fairly similar in a thread I created awhile back. It's basicly the same idea, with slight variations on the observer mode requirment, and the fact that my suggestion would match you with teams from any 'tier.'

The only issue I see with a tier system, is that there may be no other teams in your tier. Meaning you get no opposing party until that RA team with 2 touchers and a wanderlust rit get 10 wins, and then you steamroll them because they suck. You then get no opposing party again until another bad team has won 10 games in Team Areanas, and do the same thing as you did to the last team. Then the next RA team comes along. What I suggested basicly allows room for a 'skip' type mechanisim like there is in Toumbs/HA.

I also suggested increased Gladiator point rewards, that scale with how many consecutive wins you have. You're facing better teams than you would be facing; I think that deserves better rewards. Plus, it discourages teams to run farming builds that omgwtfpwn bad teams really fast but don't beat actualy good ones(like thumpway, more or less... but RaO and Bsurge as skills are entirely different subjects...). It also discourages teams running such builds from simply quitting out after 10 wins, because they want to fight bad teams over and over again.

This is what I suggested:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zui

- Attempt to match teams that have similar win streaks up. This way, a team with 55 wins will face a team with as many wins as possible, and not a team that just entered. This will increase the competition and fun level in Team Arenas, as teams will likely be playing against teams of a similar skill level later on.

(Observer)

- Implement an Observer Mode for Team Arenas. Only show teams that have a significant amount of consecutive wins(I'm thinking like 20, or 30 wins), or top guild teams.

If this is simply not possible to do because of server issues, at least implement an Observer Mode that shows top guild teams, and the Team Arenas team with the current highest win streak.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zui

- Currently, for every ten consecutive wins you earn a Gladiator point. I suggest that you make Gladiator points scale, like Fame gained per consecutive wins in Heroes' Ascent. For the first ten game win streak you earn one Gladiator point, but when you reach twenty consecutive wins you would get two Gladiator points, for thirty consecutive wins you would get three Gladiator points, and so on. This would be great, especially with the matching suggestion, since more skilled players would be able to achieve higher ranks of the Gladiator title in shorter periods of time. Less skilled players, given the same amount of play time, would not be able to earn as many Gladiator points as those players. A classic example of skill > grind, which is what Guild Wars is all about.

Program Ftw · Dec 08, 2006, 11:50 AM // 11:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zui

Agreed.

I suggested somthing fairly similar in a thread I created awhile back. It's basicly the same idea, with slight variations on the observer mode requirment, and the fact that my suggestion would match you with teams from any 'tier.'

The only issue I see with a tier system, is that there may be no other teams in your tier. Meaning you get no opposing party until that RA team with 2 touchers and a wanderlust rit get 10 wins, and then you steamroll them because they suck. You then get no opposing party again until another bad team has won 10 games in Team Areanas, and do the same thing as you did to the last team. Then the next RA team comes along. What I suggested basicly allows room for a 'skip' type mechanisim like there is in Toumbs/HA.

I also suggested increased Gladiator point rewards, that scale with how many consecutive wins you have. You're facing better teams than you would be facing; I think that deserves better rewards. Plus, it discourages teams to run farming builds that omgwtfpwn bad teams really fast but don't beat actualy good ones(like thumpway, more or less... but RaO and Bsurge as skills are entirely different subjects...). It also discourages teams running such builds from simply quitting out after 10 wins, because they want to fight bad teams over and over again.

This is what I suggested:

Nice.

As for the quitting out thing, it's the same with how HA used to be when people played it. You just Really Can't be assed to keep quitting and fighting scrubs, well for me atleast.

I think If Tier 2 had two Glad points for getting to Tier 3, and Tier 3 had four Points for getting to Tier 4, six points for getting to Tier 5, and at Tier 5 you get two points for each win.

Yes, thats alot of Gladiator points, but it gives a reward for doing so well.

Thanks,
Program~

Zui · Dec 08, 2006, 12:11 PM // 12:11

Yeah, that idea would also work. The best teams would end up gaining even more points than the lesser teams as compared to my suggestion, which is absolutly not a bad idea.

As for people quitting, I don't think many teams would simply quit out when they hit the next tier. Just the bad ones who honestly don't deserve to win, but are doing so because they're running a build with very simple charactars and overpowered skills, and pwning teams that are just as bad, but are running poor skills. Kind of like scrubs running 4 touchers, and each toucher getting on their number. Tab(times 1-4)+spacebar+1+2+repeat hitting 1 and 2. Win. They get gladiator points. Not because they are good at Guild Wars, but because their opponents are not very good at Guild Wars, even though they may be better players than those running touchers.

Increased rewards entirely solve that problem, though. Either making the quitting teams gain alot less points, or by making those teams not quit in the first place.

Gosu · Dec 08, 2006, 03:50 PM // 15:50

In theory your idea sounds nice but in practice, I think they would be very tricky to pull off for the reasons you have given above.

Here is a better idea, which I posted some time ago for teams that wish to participate in organised Team arena play. There should be something similar to the guild registration that we have now, So for example if one wanted to GvG you would need to create a guild, register and then you would have access to the option to GvG or not.

The same should be for Team arenas, let me explain the common player won't be cut off from Team arena they will still be able to PuG and play with whomever. Their team arena will be totally seperate from the more organised team arena.

Now for those that want organised team play with the luxury of higher gladiator points, prizes and even being watched on observer mode will have to register as a bonified "team".

Players will be allowed to only join 1 team though that that team can be with another guild or within their own guild. Now just like with guilds players can only invite a certain amount of players, say a maximum of 2 to each team to battle with them. Each team will only be able to activate team battle from their respective halls.

With this a new option becomes available "team battle" this form of PvP will be the same as Team arenas only difference being that players will be pitted against other organised and registered teams.

This in theory should by default raise the standard of play in PvP as you are already playing against other organised teams for more gladiator points and prizes.

I feel that this idea would take some work to pull off but I feel that it would be worth it in the end.

Absum · Dec 08, 2006, 06:18 PM // 18:18

Here's a suggestion: When teams with 20+ wins go against each other the match gets observer mode and the winning team gets more than 1 gladiator point.

I like your suggestions, but I don't think incrementing gladiator points per 10 wins is that great of an idea. It would just be an even better way for people to "farm" glad points without reflecting much skill. However, defeating a team that is on a streak is likely to be a more legitimate accomplishment than rolling 30 noob teams in a row. The only problem with it is the randomness of 2 teams having more than 20 wins at the same time =/ A tier system would help, but then it would take forever for higher tiered teams to get matches.

Pat_vaynard · Dec 08, 2006, 11:53 PM // 23:53

These ideas sound pretty cool, but apparently TA isn't very competitive anymore from what the mass of people have implied on this forum as of late. Implementing consecutive glad points, or multiple points for a higher level of competitive play might drive more teams into the mix.

Anyway, the idea sounds good but the lacking thing I see is people. There's not really as many teams running as there were back in the summertime, mainly because it is winter and everyone is at work/school.

I'm sort of new blood here but I have only -heard- about this last summer and how much activity there -used- to be. From my understanding TA was a lot more lively with active groups from [FamE] , [TA], [ROFL] running regularly everyday and night. Other groups ran I'm sure, but none are coming to me at the moment.

Not to divert your topic but would you say the lack of numbers is due to implementation of titles (or more appealing titles) or maybe is it just a lack of overall seriousness associated with TA in the first place?

Program Ftw · Dec 09, 2006, 12:21 AM // 00:21

The main thing is will ANet do it?

Most likely not.

Thanks,
Program~

Absum · Dec 09, 2006, 01:03 AM // 01:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pat_vaynard

Not to divert your topic but would you say the lack of numbers is due to implementation of titles (or more appealing titles) or maybe is it just a lack of overall seriousness associated with TA in the first place?

I don't know of any more appealing titles that were implemented since this summer..

The guilds that used to be active in TA have just fallen apart since then. Eat, ROFL and res disbanded; FamE is inactive in general; most of the arena oriented players in Rezq quit and created Kame; and some members from res rolled into Kame, OoOo or pro. TA(the guild) has disbanded and reformed twice to my knowledge and the core members have been active since I started TA'ing this fall.

Honestly, I don't think activity there has changed much at all. Kame, OoOo, Ghey, serp, and tMB guild groups are in TA on a regular basis. There are still numerous less recognized guild groups that come and go, and the usual cluster of grab and go garbage hasn't decreased as far as I can tell.

Yes, the reason TA doesn't draw *more* attention is because of the lack of seriousness associated with it. There's no ladder, no loot, no unlocked areas, no emotes, no observer... just faction and glad points.

Pat_vaynard · Dec 09, 2006, 08:38 AM // 08:38

Hm, I was more directly referencing to Champion title, sorry for the confusion of what I meant. People value their titles, and therefore go for the most impressive possible. Just seems to be the nature of the business so to speak.

I don't think this will get implemented, but it's a nice thought at the very least. In terms of players coming and going, I guess all the people I first met in TA kinda all went inactive, because it seems like I meet new people every day in TA that seem to have been there for a few months or more.

An observer mode wouldn't hurt, but it seems like the overall demand for it is low because the population of TA is low, and I suppose always has been low. You veterans can give a better explaination as to how active the summer was, but I still don't see that many teams in TA now, maybe I'll have to start playing all day again to see what you are reffering to Absum.

Absum · Dec 09, 2006, 08:02 PM // 20:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pat_vaynard

An observer mode wouldn't hurt, but it seems like the overall demand for it is low because the population of TA is low, and I suppose always has been low. You veterans can give a better explaination as to how active the summer was, but I still don't see that many teams in TA now, maybe I'll have to start playing all day again to see what you are reffering to Absum.

There were 2 districts in TA for the majority of last night. I don't remember there ever being much more than that except during the event weekends ^^ I'm not sure when champion titles were implemented, but I'm pretty sure it's been there since last july or august.

It is a long shot for them to make these changes, but it has even less of a chance happening if we stop pushing for them!

Chase the Sky · Dec 10, 2006, 03:08 AM // 03:08

Maybe I am weird. But I have almost just as much fun rolling scrubs as I do playing good teams.

I think I just like pressing buttons that cause colors and lights on the screen.

red orc · Dec 10, 2006, 08:20 AM // 08:20

What have you with touchers ?
I'm yet to see a toucher get a glad point, they roll very nicely thank you.
As for your suggestion, you get better odds to fight a decent group in TA than you get in HA. Go change HA first. There you find sf groups all over the place. Most of the time its is heros sf. And it is so bad that the heros group last 15 seconds more than ppl sf groups. And sometimes they get to the 3rd map, so they wiped even worse groups on the way.

Etrik · Dec 10, 2006, 11:10 AM // 11:10

I support this idea.

Zui · Dec 10, 2006, 12:30 PM // 12:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chase the Sky

Maybe I am weird. But I have almost just as much fun rolling scrubs as I do playing good teams.

I think I just like pressing buttons that cause colors and lights on the screen.

Even when they have Rits?

Etrik · Dec 10, 2006, 12:46 PM // 12:46

Spiritual Pain owns their rits