Curse

Wasteland Squidget · Dec 09, 2006, 10:00 PM // 22:00

Rapid spikes are pressure. They're a different kind of pressure, but they endanger monks in a lot of the same ways. If you're constantly infusing and throwing around pre-prot and spamming heals on a trained target and eating Surges you end up losing a lot of energy even if you're saving every spike.

If you're talking about pure damage pressure (oh look, all the healthbars are low), Eurospike can only really apply that in the absence of Heal Party. Spiritual Pain, Energy Surge, and B-surge really do up quickly on monks healing and recharge times. You don't need the Heal Party full time like you do against hex/condition degen, but you can't afford to have your E/Mo sitting around in the base either.

Zuranthium · Dec 09, 2006, 11:01 PM // 23:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seamus Finn

Umm... seeing as how dismember has no damage bonus, it actually is quite a bit less damage on one hit.

Yes, less damage in one hit, but by causing the Deep Wound more often you're forcing their monks to remove it more (and thus expend energy). Obviously Evisercate is better because of how well it spikes but Dismember is an excellent non-Elite.

~Z

Etrik · Dec 10, 2006, 01:10 AM // 01:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divineshadows

Or you could just run divert hexes and free up two spots on your bar...

I was talking about RA. You don't always meet hexes. And I just love BL.. faster cast, removes cond, unconditional heal ^^. Besides, pre-veiling owns.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

Avatar of Grenth says hi.

You make me lol irl. <3

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zuranthium

Oh come on. You yourself have stated the same thing. It's widely regarded that Healing is a much weaker attribute line than Protection.

Fixed that for ya.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zuranthium

So if you are playing against a condition pressure build that contains a Warrior + Grenth train and you have no anti-melee skills to combat the Dervish, RC can shine. How versatile. Even in this scenario a ZB monk would probably still be sufficient. A 212 point heal that often comes for free is nothing to *roll eyes* at.

Neither is a 300-point heal (RC)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zuranthium

Also...how does RC work better than ZB if the train is on you?

It doesn't. Prot Spirit + SoA do.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zuranthium

Well I disagree entirely. 2 W/A and 2 Mesmers can spike someone down in an instant and still put very large amounts of pressure on the Monks when not coordinating the spike.

No they can't O_o

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zuranthium

But, like, if RC is hitting your G-spot, don't stop using it. Always nice to have a tool you are familiar with that can bring you to a great climax.

~Z

How very educated of you.

Fiddlers Black · Dec 10, 2006, 01:44 AM // 01:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Etrik

It doesn't. Prot Spirit + SoA do.

say hello to avatar of grenth

Eonwe · Dec 10, 2006, 03:55 AM // 03:55

It rocks faces off for RA/TA. I would know because that's the only place I am allowed to play monk. ^_^

Zuranthium · Dec 10, 2006, 04:19 AM // 04:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Etrik

No they can't O_o

Yes they can...

Gale the off monk, and Shame + Shatter + unload adren on the other monk.

While waiting for the Mesmer spike spells to recharge the Warriors can do their own mini-spikes and the Mesmers use E-denial and Diversion.

~Z

Patrograd · Dec 10, 2006, 10:53 AM // 10:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zuranthium

Yes, less damage in one hit, but by causing the Deep Wound more often you're forcing their monks to remove it more (and thus expend energy). Obviously Evisercate is better because of how well it spikes but Dismember is an excellent non-Elite.

~Z

I read somewhere that dismember->cleave/critical is better DPS over time than eviscerate->executioners, and so is better in pressure orientated builds. Not something I have ever tested though, but it seems to make sense.

Etrik · Dec 10, 2006, 11:19 AM // 11:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fiddlers Black

say hello to avatar of grenth

My bad, I was tired and wasn't.. thinking (clearly, or at all). And Zuranthium, how often do you see that build in the current meta?

Servant of Kali · Dec 10, 2006, 01:08 PM // 13:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blame the Monks

TA has a more advanced meta and a higher standard of play than tombs, especially outside the US

/agree

I just wanted to emphasize this a bit more. People take GvG and HA as an example of "high-end" PvP or whatever you want to call it. That's so false. Tombs has much worse PvP than TA, and it had it for a long long time. Only fame farmers flamed TA and called it noob arena, the others actually were seeing that TA is far more advanced and requires far more skill.

Tombs is the troll cave of PvP.

latbec · Dec 10, 2006, 02:51 PM // 14:51

To make a good use of ZB, you need the optimal backline setup for it, which is a Divert hexes monk with a ZB-infuse monk. Outside that setup, ZB is pretty useless. It can also give your team an edge at VoD by providing free heals for your team and NPCs. There's absolutely no reason to run ZB if you don't have infuse on your bar.

falling demon · Dec 10, 2006, 03:32 PM // 15:32

Glyph of Lesser Energy is sex with ZB. a free heal and a possible 10 energy gain (ok, 5 gain because glyph costs 5 too) and then your next spell is free. what's to lose? Although, the one thing i DO hate is the healer healing your target before you do, so you miss out on the free heal, and then you've wasted 10 energy, which is why ZB is alot better in Arenas.

Seamus Finn · Dec 11, 2006, 03:34 AM // 03:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by falling demon

Glyph of Lesser Energy is sex with ZB. a free heal and a possible 10 energy gain (ok, 5 gain because glyph costs 5 too) and then your next spell is free. what's to lose? Although, the one thing i DO hate is the healer healing your target before you do, so you miss out on the free heal, and then you've wasted 10 energy, which is why ZB is alot better in Arenas.

.

... Doesn't anyone read my posts?

Oh well. To the poster above this one. You are wrong. Read my post... please?

HolyHawk · Dec 11, 2006, 06:07 AM // 06:07

As people already mentioned, this skill can shine in ta and ra, because you have more control over the dmg and you can afford letting someone or yourself with less than 50% health. On the other side, I did saw 2 monks in gvgs, different teams, both infuser using ZB as elite; the difference was that one of them made a vampiric set, and used it all the time against euroway and necro spikes. He didn't really need to change sets, because all he did was infuse and ZB himself. I would imagine this is an interesting use for it in gvg.

Etrik · Dec 11, 2006, 06:10 AM // 06:10

Yes, but you can't really do much else on an infuse/zb'er. You have to be on your toes so you can infuse. That's a problem, imho (pretty much a problem with all infusers, moreso this one that doesn't have 14 healing).

Bowstring Badass · Dec 11, 2006, 06:19 AM // 06:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seamus Finn

.

... Doesn't anyone read my posts?

Oh well. To the poster above this one. You are wrong. Read my post... please?

Alliance dude. :P

Got to agree with you.

Bowstring Badass · Dec 11, 2006, 06:26 AM // 06:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bankai

Doesn't ZB trigger AFTER divine favor? DF passes 15 energy very easily.

And since the good healing elites entered play, you no longer need 3-4 skill slots dedicated to healing, you only need 2 or maybe 3, enabling you to take much more support. Yeah, Healing monks no longer suck as bad as they used to.

I beleive ZB triggers before DF.

Etrik · Dec 11, 2006, 06:43 AM // 06:43

You believe wrongly then. DF heals first. Same goes for WoH, LoD.

You need to heal someone @ about 45% to be sure to get the 10e back.

dag_nefzen · Dec 11, 2006, 07:09 AM // 07:09

Zealous triggers before.

I realize it's a bit feint in the second picture but you can still see the +10 energy from ZB.

Etrik · Dec 11, 2006, 07:46 AM // 07:46

I'll try it again later. If it does trigger before DF, it didn't before. Trust me. It, LoD, WoH have all been tested.

Patrograd · Dec 11, 2006, 09:06 AM // 09:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Etrik

I'll try it again later. If it does trigger before DF, it didn't before. Trust me. It, LoD, WoH have all been tested.

When did you test this?

IIRC the DF going on first on skills like WOH was fixed with the Sorrows Furnace update over a year ago.......