Curse

Divineshadows · Nov 02, 2006, 11:12 PM // 23:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

Remove Hex

This is the one skill I did not really understand in the build you listed. Sure I've had it in builds in GvG on a Me/Mo, but on a Mo/*?

JR · Nov 02, 2006, 11:35 PM // 23:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divineshadows

This is the one skill I did not really understand in the build you listed. Sure I've had it in builds in GvG on a Me/Mo, but on a Mo/*?

2 second casts don't bother me, from having Signet Of Devotion, Purge Signet or other long casts on my bar. It is a good spot hex removal with a rapid recharge. I don't really know if I prefer it to Holy Veil or not yet, but it is something I have been playing around with.

Sacred o_O · Nov 03, 2006, 12:41 AM // 00:41

The ability to pre-cast Holy Veil will put it above Remove Hex for me in all cases. I've always thought of it as a hex breaker that you can use on multiple people. Being able to stop dual shame/diversion adren spikes makes it invaluable.

SnipiousMax · Nov 03, 2006, 01:14 AM // 01:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wasteland Squidget

Rampage thumpers are overpowered and definitely need a nerf.

How would you balance it with out destroying the skill completely?

TheOneMephisto · Nov 03, 2006, 01:38 AM // 01:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by SnipiousMax

How would you balance it with out destroying the skill completely?

Give it some kinda of a downside? IMO it either needs to a) have some sort of a downside, or b) reduce both energy cost and duration, so maybe it costs 10-15e but has a ~10 sec duration at 12 BM.

Wasteland Squidget · Nov 03, 2006, 01:43 AM // 01:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by SnipiousMax

How would you balance it with out destroying the skill completely?

Some combination of:

-Reduce the duration and recharge such that it costs more energy to maintain

-Reduce the IAS to 25%

-Skill ends if your pet dies, and cannot be reactivated until your pet is alive.

-Pet takes double damage while the skill is active.

TimTimTimma · Nov 03, 2006, 01:48 AM // 01:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neo-LD

Also, what is the big deal about Dismiss Condition? Its like, Mend Ailment with a slightly better recharge but dependent on a crappy condition? I shudder to think how many times you wont get the healing bonus because of the absence of enchants on your target.... that skill has to go into the right teambuild, imo (one with lots of aegis and taints etc), you cant just put it on any normal monk in any build and expect it to be good.

Sometimes it's not what the skill can do, but what you can do with the skill.

Zuranthium · Nov 03, 2006, 02:36 AM // 02:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

But has the efficiency of a Heal Other, which is fairly terrible, when you could be using Gift of Health which is extremely efficient.

Why would you not use Gift of Health for a ZB build?

Zealous Benediction
Gift of Health
Reversal of Fortune
Guardian
Spirit Bond
X
X
X

You save ZB for when somebody is under 50% and they get a huge heal at no cost. It casts in under a second, so I don't see the problem. What exactly would a Blessed Light be casting on somebody who is under 50% that casts faster? Nothing I know of (this build has Reversal too)...

FireBolt · Nov 03, 2006, 06:43 AM // 06:43

I ran Zealous Benediction in a Blessed Light type bar, but I feel the problem is that, Blessed Light is a versatile skill, and losing that extra condition/hex removal is deadly. The energy under 50% is great and all, but one it's conditional, and typically, in a Blessed Light bar, you devo is almost good enough as e-management in most cases.

VODA... · Nov 03, 2006, 07:46 AM // 07:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by scamPOR

}

• Simple Thievery (Elite)
- A skill stealing version of arcane. We all know how much arcane gets used... {1/5}

Well, i see some use in this skill. The fact Simple thievery works on non-spells is the reason why it might have some use. When used on a caster, who normally doesnt carrry too many non-spell skills, one could steal some key skills. Like remove sig of devotion from a monk, and by that, trouble his energy management. Or maybe remove a res sig from a caster.

Im not saying this skill great, because in fact, it isnt. But what i'm trying to say is that there is a big difference between this skill and arcane thievery. And this difference might just be the reason why this skill will come to better use than arcane.

It remains a very conditional skill however, to that i fully agree

Quote:

Originally Posted by scamPOR

}

• Stone Sheath (Elite)
- Conjure earth for the enemy as an elite... whoop {1/5}

Use Stone sheath, let your Ele primaries wear geomancer armor, throw in a ward against elements and let your team's mesmer primaries/secondaries run mantra of earth and voila!

+ 24 armor (ward of elements), bonus armor (for Ele's carryinh geomancer armor), damage reduction + energy gain (mantra of earth), protection vs critical hits (stone sheath)

This still is a longshot, but its a fun concept when used this way.

JR · Nov 03, 2006, 08:36 AM // 08:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sacred o_O

The ability to pre-cast Holy Veil will put it above Remove Hex for me in all cases. I've always thought of it as a hex breaker that you can use on multiple people. Being able to stop dual shame/diversion adren spikes makes it invaluable.

In almost all of my experience good mesmers will just see that and Drain it off. Granted it makes their job a little more difficult, but it also wastes your energy and doesn't really help.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zuranthium

Why would you not use Gift of Health for a ZB build?
.

Of course you would. My point was that in general as a Heal I would rather be using Gift.

suiraCLAW · Nov 03, 2006, 09:09 AM // 09:09

In general, it's not worth it to use ZB in place of BL in a normal build, but there are certainly exceptions:

- your build has a huge amount of hex and condition removal (read: a drawbot and an expel mesmer while the other monk is a BL monk)
- a (offensive) split with self-sufficent characters, especially if one of those carry condition and/or hex removal (read: a split with a smiter, with a empathic sword or something else)
- you have a 100% offensive build (read: 4 thumpers, 1 death necro and a runner).
- your monk doesn't have gw:f (obviously, this isn't a problem in high-end pvp)

Zuranthium · Nov 03, 2006, 03:33 PM // 15:33

Yeah, we had a Taint Necro with draw and a Mantra of Recovery Mesmer with Remove Hex when I tested it. Worked very well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

Of course you would. My point was that in general as a Heal I would rather be using Gift.

This still doesn't make sense to me? In a Blessed bar you'd rather be using Gift as well for a Heal. For straight healing Blessed Light is one of the most inefficient heals in the game, but you'll still have to use it as such at times.

JR · Nov 03, 2006, 03:58 PM // 15:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zuranthium

This still doesn't make sense to me? In a Blessed bar you'd rather be using Gift as well for a Heal. For straight healing Blessed Light is one of the most inefficient heals in the game, but you'll still have to use it as such at times.

Rarely.

My point was the even on a target under 50% I would rather use Gift than ZB (provided there is no risk of them dropping lower, in which case i would Reversal -> Gift), as I can be pretty sure my monk partner will also be healing them, so it is doubtfull that I would get the bonus on ZB anyway - leaving me with an inefficient heal and the risk of overhealing.

Byron · Nov 03, 2006, 04:35 PM // 16:35

Here's my kind of thread. I'll only "score" within the professions I usually play.

[Mesmer]

Domination Magic

• Enchanter's Conundrum (Elite)
Anets answer to the possible problem of dervish over-use. Would be effective on smiters, as well. [2/5]

• Hex Eater Vortex (Elite)
I like the spirit of the skill, but the energy cost and relatively small aoe make it pretty impractical. [2/5]

• Power Flux (Elite)
It's like a malaise with interrupt potential, small duration, and no aoe. There might be a build for it, somewhere. [1/5]

• Simple Thievery (Elite)
Might be good against specific builds when combined with signet of humility. [1/5]

• Visions of Regret (Elite)
Would be good if the cast time was less, or the recharge time was less. Otherwise, impractical IMO. [1/5]

Fast Casting
• Symbols of Inspiration (Elite)
Might have gotten play if not for boon of signets. [1/5]

Illusion Magic
• Air of Disenchantment (Elite)
Much like Enchanter's conundrum; same idea [2/5]

Inspiration Magic
• Extend Conditions (Elite)
The recharge makes it useless. [0/5]

• Tease (Elite)
Humor is always good, and this might be an effective anti-caster skill. [3/5]

No Attribute
• Signet of Illusions (Elite)
This could see a lot of play when used in combo with the right skills (eg= heal party, freezing gust, rit spirits) [4/5]

[Elementalist]

Air Magic
• Blinding Surge (Elite)
Spamming blind is always a good frustration tactic, though not exactly a counter-measure to melee pressure. [2.5/5]

• Invoke Lightning (Elite)
Could put some serious pressure on a backline [3/5]

Earth Magic
• Sandstorm (Elite)
Flagstand or turtle use, like most earth skills, but not worth the elite slot [1/5]

• Stone Sheath (Elite)
I see no justification to take this elite. [0/5]

Energy Storage
• Ether Prism (Elite)
Combined with glyph of lesser energy, very good e-management. [4/5]

• Master of Magic (Elite)
Could be good e-management for specific builds, maybe. [2/5]

Fire Magic
• Mind Blast (Elite)
The damage is meh, but the recharge and the side effects give it some appeal. [3/5]

• Savannah Heat (Elite)
PvE skill. [1/5]

• Searing Flames (Elite)
The aoe is tasty, and the pressure potential is great. I think it's due for a nerf, tbh (overuse). [4/5]

Water Magic
• Icy Shackles (Elite)
What if target has no enchantments? [1/5]

[Monk]

Divine Favor

• Revitalize (Elite)
Interesting at first, but when tested, it doesn't seem worth it. [1/5]

Healing Prayers
• Glimmer of Light (Elite)
Cast time and recharge are delicious. A decent heal with moderate DF. My new favorite monk build. [4/5]

• Healer's Covenant (Elite)
Doesn't fix the problem of slow cast speed. [1/5]

• Light of Deliverance (Elite)
Outstanding anti-pressure with low cost and recharge. [4/5]

Protection Prayers
• Divert Hexes (Elite)
Might be interesting on a monk secondary, some good anti-pressure. [2/5]

• Zealous Benediction (Elite)
Could very well replace blessed light on the typical GoH monk, for good reason. Not too confident in its healing power, though. [3/5]

Smiting Prayers
• Balthazar's Pendulum (Elite)
Might be interesting if spammable (but it's not). [1/5]

• Defender's Zeal (Elite)
Interesting e-management, to say the least. Like a more effective spirit of failure, only it's elite. I see potential here. [2/5]

No Attribute
• Signet of Removal (Elite)
The enchantment requisite takes away a lot of its appeal. Plus, no heal, just removal. [1/5]

[Ranger]

Beast Mastery
• Rampage as One (Elite)
The quintessential thumper skill. Due for a nerf IMO. It is effective, though. [3/5]

• Strike as One (Elite)
Don't see the justice for this elite. Nets 50 damage, at most, over time. [1/5]

Expertise
• Expert's Dexterity (Elite)
Spam hunter's shot? [1/5]

• Sweltering Heat (Elite)
Could easily work against the team that's using it. Plus, it's a spirit. Dragon slash, go! [2/5]

Marksmanship
• Burning Arrow (Elite)
Could be very good damage pressure on soft targets with high marksmanship spec. [3/5]

• Prepared Shot (Elite)
I'm not sure what build it fits into, but I see it's potential. [2/5]

Wilderness Survival
• Scavenger's Focus (Elite)
Problem is, you can't combine it with a preparation that inflicts conditions. [1/5]

• Smoke Trap (Elite)
A daze trap seems good, and the recharge is generous. This will get some PvP play. [3/5]

• Weariness (Elite)
NR/tranq/weariness? Fear me? Zealous weapons? Potential. [3/5]

No Attribute
• Magebane Shot (Elite)
There are much more effective anti-caster methods out there. [1/5]

[Warrior]

Axe Mastery
• Decapitate (Elite)
Side effects too much to warrant. I hate the idea of building a bar around one skill. [1/5]

Hammer Mastery
• Magehunter's Smash (Elite)
An elite, conditional, 5 adrenaline KD, with no damage bonus? No thanks. [0/5]

Strength
• Charging Strike (Elite)
I like the recharge, but that's about it. There might be a build for it, has some potential synergy with prot strike. [2/5]

• Headbutt (Elite)
Once again, building a bar around one skill is silly. [1/5]

• Magehunter Strike (Elite)
Could be good if the meta goes awry. [2/5]

• Rage of the Ntouka (Elite)
But then, I can't bring eviscerate... [1/5]

Swordsmanship
• Crippling Slash (Elite)
Why, with "You're all alone!" around? [1/5]

Tactics
• Soldier's Stance (Elite)
There might be a pressure build for this one. IAS is always nice. [2/5]

• Steady Stance (Elite)
Not much use on a warrior, and with so many other elites around - why? So they can't interrupt your dolyak sig? [0/5]

No Attribute
• "You're All Alone!" (Elite)
Unconditional, aggro-ranged cripple is powerful indeed. On a W/A sword, delicious. I suspect a nerf. [4/5]

granor · Nov 03, 2006, 05:03 PM // 17:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wasteland Squidget

Some combination of:

-Reduce the duration and recharge such that it costs more energy to maintain

-Reduce the IAS to 25%

-Skill ends if your pet dies, and cannot be reactivated until your pet is alive.

-Pet takes double damage while the skill is active.

I think #3 is a must. Why do any of the skills "XXX as one" work when your pet is dead? That doesn't make any sense.

This change will require anouther skill in the bar now (comfort animal) So now you have to take up 3 skill slots for this charm, comfort, and itself. For that the skill should be pretty good. I mean that is 37% of your skill bar already.

The double damage would be pretty harsh but I understand the thought of if your oppent notices what you are doing they want to kill your pet to end the skill (if that change is made) so then you can make the pet easier to kill. I think 2X damage is too much but I kind of like the concept.

Zuranthium · Nov 03, 2006, 06:14 PM // 18:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

Rarely.

My point was the even on a target under 50% I would rather use Gift than ZB (provided there is no risk of them dropping lower, in which case i would Reversal -> Gift), as I can be pretty sure my monk partner will also be healing them, so it is doubtfull that I would get the bonus on ZB anyway - leaving me with an inefficient heal and the risk of overhealing.

I try to split targets with whoever else is monking to prevent overhealing. Just call "watch [Player Number]" if two teammates assigned to one Monk are taking lots of damage at one time or call for extra healing on your assigned target when needed. My (former) guild used a lot of abbreviated, coded talk to quickly relay info. If playing ZB I would specifically be agressive about telling the other monk not to heal someone under 50% if that target wasn't under immediate pressure.

romO · Nov 03, 2006, 07:13 PM // 19:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byron

• Divert Hexes (Elite)
Might be interesting on a monk secondary, some good anti-pressure. [2/5]

6/5. Probably my new favorite monk elite. The only downside is that it's hard to build a Divert bar with a big self heal. Honestly, when I think through the useage of skills, I can see Blessed Light monks becoming extinct. I doubt that will happen though, because that skill is basically every ability in the game packed into one skill. However, compared to some of the other combinations, not nearly as efficient.

Also, JR, I apologize for saying that ZB was going to be amazing. It's a good skill, but can't see using my elite spot on it. You have to admit the same is true with Glimmer, though.

Drewfense · Nov 03, 2006, 07:33 PM // 19:33

Why is it so good tommy? I've seen Awowa use it as well (and if both of yall are using it, there must be a significant upside). It reads like a hex version of RC that can self target. Similarly to RC, the conditionality of it, especially in a meta not dictated by hexes, (and as you stated, not having a big self heal on the split) turns me away.

moriz · Nov 03, 2006, 07:43 PM // 19:43

divert will get played if the metagame becomes more hex-heavy. until then, it's blessed light all the way.