Curse

Edek · Dec 18, 2006, 03:59 PM // 15:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akaraxle

An even shorter version: VoD > all.

Like always. VoD is now even more important than it was before making it start at 20 minute mark. For good or bad it promotes builds that win at VoD.

Thom · Dec 18, 2006, 04:23 PM // 16:23

Few notes:

-When spike encounters another stronger spike, the weaker spike needs to learn to abbandon plan A. This extends to any match where your opponent is dictating the match and getting kills.

-I expected more flexiblity from some of the top teams. PnH was more flexible in tactics and build, so they deserve the gold trim. I was kind of disappointed that so many teams felt they could spike there way through a Swiss tournement. Spike has its place in tournements, but a predictable spike inflexable against equal opponents is a disaster waiting to happen.

-Mix strategies and builds. Having two different builds which you play well is infinitely better then trying to tweak one build in a tournement setting. You're far less likely to lose in the meta-game if you provide uncertainty to any counter.

-VoD is a bit too early for tournement play. Equally matched teams don't have enough time to really distinguish themselves before VoD hits providing too much advantage for a VoD strategy team (spike).

JR · Dec 18, 2006, 04:36 PM // 16:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thom

-I expected more flexiblity from some of the top teams. PnH was more flexible in tactics and build, so they deserve the gold trim. I was kind of disappointed that so many teams felt they could spike there way through a Swiss tournement. Spike has its place in tournements, but a predictable spike inflexable against equal opponents is a disaster waiting to happen.

-Mix strategies and builds. Having two different builds which you play well is infinitely better then trying to tweak one build in a tournement setting. You're far less likely to lose in the meta-game if you provide uncertainty to any counter.

Not entirely true, i'm assuming you observed iQ in last seasons play-offs - where they ran one build for every match, barring the one that they lost.

'Eurospike' is surprisingly flexible. We never ran the same variation of it in any match of the swiss:

We ran dual Warriors when we could expect 8 vs 8 play and wanted stronger and more rapid spikes. We ran the third Mesmer when we wanted more shut-down (with Surge or Blinding Surge depending on the opponent). We ran the Ebon Dust Aura Dervish in matches where we expected to have to defensively split. We ran the Melandru Dervish in the match where we needed him as more of a solo character to control the health shrine on Isle of Wurms... etc.

Admittedly it proved to be a mistake taking the spike in against tag, we really didn't expect to be that thoroughly countered - and still be facing a team that could hold a threat of getting kills on us. Had we gone in with the split build then we at least could have taken it to a stronger second round, instead of opening ourselves up for another ass-kicking. However, mistakes happen.

tomcruisejr · Dec 18, 2006, 05:36 PM // 17:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edek

Like always. VoD is now even more important than it was before making it start at 20 minute mark. For good or bad it promotes builds that win at VoD.

you are always free to wipe the other team before the VoD.

Thom · Dec 18, 2006, 05:59 PM // 17:59

Yeah, there was a bit of hyperbole there. You're right JR.

Eurospike is a rather nice balance build, so maybe it was just the execution in some of the games I watched. My impression from the dozen or so games I watched was that some teams were playing as they would during the ladder season expecting teams to roll over and die. I had some examples, but I guess I won't call anyone out.

I've been thinking about iQ. I think they could get away with being predictable because they play a control style game and are naturally responsive and VoD oriented in playing style, therefore they will vary strategies playing the same build. Playing a predictable beatdown build is asking for a counter.

Phelann · Dec 18, 2006, 07:27 PM // 19:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomcruisejr

you are always free to wipe the other team before the VoD.

like hell. look at how much defense peoplie run now.

Thom Bangalter · Dec 18, 2006, 07:38 PM // 19:38

Cheers to PnH, they deserve it ever since they ran fire eles in GVG pre-nightfall.

Discuss!

JR · Dec 18, 2006, 07:49 PM // 19:49

Haha!

Congrats alliance buddies, you earnt it. Brilliant plays all tournament, a shame we never got to play you!

skillsbas8 · Dec 18, 2006, 08:17 PM // 20:17

Nice job!
Didn't see that one coming :P

tricolorsp · Dec 18, 2006, 08:25 PM // 20:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomcruisejr

you are always free to wipe the other team before the VoD.

besides the fact that its kind of hard to wipe a guild top36 you are right....

Thom Bangalter · Dec 18, 2006, 08:41 PM // 20:41

I had them seeded 3rd, I think, after QQ and eF. They're a terrific guild and I think this tournament finally gave them the recognition they've been deserving for quite some time.

Thomas.knbk · Dec 18, 2006, 08:50 PM // 20:50

Neither did I
SP spike for the win, i guess.

tomcruisejr · Dec 18, 2006, 09:28 PM // 21:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by tricolorsp

besides the fact that its kind of hard to wipe a guild top36 you are right....

maybe because your build too got packloads of defense for vod?

Blame the Monks · Dec 18, 2006, 09:36 PM // 21:36

I also had them placed third. I'm glad to see a consistent, long last guild finally get that gold trim. Congrats!

lordelg · Dec 18, 2006, 09:45 PM // 21:45

i had them placed second... oh well, Ward against noobs got me my only predicted placement lol Congrats PnH!!!!

Wasteland Squidget · Dec 18, 2006, 09:53 PM // 21:53

The only way I've seen to effectively wipe teams through all the defense right now (without spiking) is to run 5 completely inflexible offensive characters. If you're all thumpers and Searing Flames guys and Death necros you can definitely create a threat of wiping, even if the other team is packing spike-level defense.

Unfortunately, these characters break down when the enemy does anything other than sit there and take hammers to the face. If they split on you or start spiking down your offense or anything like that, you really have no defense and end up losing the game.

Bankai · Dec 18, 2006, 10:53 PM // 22:53

Yup, congratulations.

I had them on 6th place.

urania · Dec 18, 2006, 11:02 PM // 23:02

i didn't make any bets, but the outcome was a pleasant surprise for me.

grats to all PnH'ers =)

and ofc, go go europe ^^

Bankai · Dec 18, 2006, 11:16 PM // 23:16

After the tourney, I agree.

Get rid of Jade isle. Burning is fine. It's Jade that's horrible.

Novita · Dec 18, 2006, 11:53 PM // 23:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wasteland Squidget

The only way I've seen to effectively wipe teams through all the defense right now (without spiking) is to run 5 completely inflexible offensive characters. If you're all thumpers and Searing Flames guys and Death necros you can definitely create a threat of wiping, even if the other team is packing spike-level defense.

Unfortunately, these characters break down when the enemy does anything other than sit there and take hammers to the face. If they split on you or start spiking down your offense or anything like that, you really have no defense and end up losing the game.

Shouts, 3 monk backlines and lots of diversion made pure pression teams virtually unplayable during the fun season. In addition to this, pure pression teams are almost 1dimensional as Wasteland said and 1 or 2 gank characters on the other team can be really annoying.

So in 8vs8 there was a low chance to win if you hadnt taken specifics counters, like Tag did or played a better spike build like lots of teams have done at the end.

Btw gg to PnH, nice choices over the tourney mixed with good tactics. Double angelical bond paragons were really funny

. I enjoyed a lot aNc vs QQ games, theres someone who deserves cookies!