Curse

Unknown Magics · Dec 18, 2006, 03:17 AM // 03:17

http://gwshack.us/4cee7

this is the rspike i have been running post nightfall and it has been working well especially since the paragon's "incoming" nerf.

A few notes on how it works:
Spiking Quickly is a necessity otherwise giving ground will probably be the best choice unless your team can easily hold out against whatever they're running.

questions and comments are welcome.
~Unknown

remmeh · Dec 18, 2006, 04:06 AM // 04:06

may I ask why you're using Signet of Disenchantment... on the paragon?

Gumby · Dec 18, 2006, 05:02 AM // 05:02

A few suggestions:
1. Run an Orders Necro/Paragon and on the Rangers swap out Forked Arrow for Dual Shot And "Find Their Weakness!" for something else, such as Discharge Enchantment, Winnowing, or Frozen Soil.
2. On said Necro you may want
[skill]"Find Their Weakness!"[/skill][skill]Anthem of Envy[/skill][skill]"Go For The Eyes!"[/skill][skill]Order of The Vampire[/skill][skill]Awaken The Blood[/skill][skill]Well of Blood[/skill][skill]Blood Ritual[/skill][skill]Resurrection Signet[/skill]
or something similar
3. Drop Purge Signet on the monk
4. Since they added aftercast to Ranger interupts, it may be a good idea to go Dual Shot>Quick Shot>Savage Shot or somthing of the like.

Unknown Magics · Dec 18, 2006, 05:32 AM // 05:32

sig of disenchant is used because it can't be interupted by a spell interupt and is fastest charging non elite enchant removal. Not to mention the paragons energy is easy even using it on recharge.

a few reasons why i dont run a N/P like the one you suggested because we don't need the extra damage because of the deep wound, dual shots recharge is too slow to keep up with the current metagame's damage output, you wouldn't need the anthem of envy if you were using order of vamp, and i would lose healing power because id need more hex removal on the monks.

Oh and btw thats not how quickshot works. It doesn't fire at interupt speed.

~Unknown

Skuld · Dec 18, 2006, 12:27 PM // 12:27

no anthem of envy? fertile? just stick inspiration strips on the rangers imo

B Ephekt · Dec 18, 2006, 03:45 PM // 15:45

I know you probably saw BR running this and think it's a good idea, but it's actually pretty bad in 6v6. Forked arrow sucks if the team has more than 1 hex, which quite a few teams have these days and it's just too easy to shutdown a ranger and completely kill the spike. In 8v8 you generally had another ranger and some damage from a necro or obs flame warder to help out, but you can't really fit that in now.

This spike won't kill any team with hero/hench monks since their WoH reaction time is pretty amazing and the spike is so painfully slow, so you're left with a build that can really only kill bad human teams. Oh course, there are many of those around atm, but I doubt you'll get very far with this build.

Also, there's nothing to really keep your monks from being repeatedly trained. A single Grenth dervish will completely destroy your backline.

Unknown Magics · Dec 19, 2006, 02:43 AM // 02:43

lol just first off, ive run this countless times now in the current 6v6 metagame, second off i've seen no one else trying to rspike when i go in.

to say rspike is slow is like saying an original shadow strike vamp gaze is uninfuseable. the spike happens in ranger attack speed + 1/4 second. not to mention i've clean spiked fully armored non DP people with 2 spikers the build has plenty of damage and between NR expel and purge theres more than enough hex removall to keep it off the rangers otherwise i'll just spike on the recharge of keen. let me do some math for you since you obviously didn't bother to.

on a 60 armor target
Keen or Forked = 100+ damage
Punishing or Savage = 100+ damage

this comes out to 600 damage with 3 spikers on a 60 armor target, even if one of the shots doesn't do that much like say forked only shoots one you will still pull off around 150 damage.

a 675 life target (possible only with 60 armor mind you or anti spike spirits/enchants) when hit with a deep wound brings it's life down to 540. even if one of the spikers only manages a mere 150 damage, your spike still comes out to:

150+ 200 + 200 = 550 easy death.

This calculated damage does not take into effect the + damage from favorable winds, go for the eyes, or vamp damage, so the damage from even a lessened spike could even be more than that. It is easy to spike targets down especially since lots of people bring superiors to halls again and not many have infuse.

In regards to heroes saving spikes an easy follow up skill usually finishes any "saving" the monk did since heroes don't have real brains, that or i'll just drop the monk thats saving them. please do not make retarded comments like ranger spike is slow, or say the build doesnt have enough damage without trying it yourself or even calculating out the damage. in 8v8 i never ran a 4th spiker anyway its not needed for the damage unless trying to clean spike warriors as well.

Btw thanks of you to notice that ranger spike has no defense. If i see a grenth dervish we will either kite around till it runs out while spiking still. Stand your ground protects the rangers when they stop to shoot, and lead the way can help anyone the dervish is following, not to mention if you have competent monks and your team is dropping people, its not too hard to beat a team even if they have a grenth or melandru.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skuld

no anthem of envy? fertile? just stick inspiration strips on the rangers imo

anthem of envy = unneeded damage/time wasted on the paragon.
fertile= would be good but i plan on playing offensive not trying to hold for the whole 4 minutes with everyone standing there spamming skills.
inspiration strips=also unneccisary, since the deep wounds are already on the rangers so i don't want them secondary mes. and one enchant removal is more than enough since people don't really bring full aegis chain etc anymore. or we'd play interrupt for the right oppurtunity.

B Ephekt · Dec 19, 2006, 03:16 AM // 03:16

Black Rose Gaming was running this EXACT build in GvG during the double champ point weekend.

I saw it and thought it was funny so I decided to run it in tombs with my guild, AFTER we tested the damage. The spike is fine against test dummies and the Zaishen but pretty slow against real teams (horribly slow when compared to the old rspike, which was an instant death). We made it to halls a few times but decided the build wasn't very effective overall. If you want to run spike there are builds that are simply more effective, imo.

The point I was making is that losing even one ranger kills the spike. If one gets shutdown or dies you can't do much. Any decent team will simply DP a ranger and burn your sigs, and there isn't much you can do about it. As far as getting clean spikes off with two rangers, this may be possible against horrible teams or heroway, but it's not going to happen if you're facing a decent team. Then again, nobody good really does tombs anymore so ymmv, I guess.

Unknown Magics · Dec 19, 2006, 03:28 AM // 03:28

well for the record i barely even logged on that weekend since my guild leader had just quit for a while and everyone was going inactive and raging at each other.

But for the speed of the spike i don't know how you guys could go slow with 4 spike skills + a deep wound.

like when i call i spike down the high damage/priority targets preferably with low armor first, as soon as theyre dp'ed the deep wound isn't even neccisary.

im from legend of pi so i may just be predispositioned to support ranger spike, but i've won countless battles with this, and with a team that actually uses their brains you can win most battles unless you get just straight hard countered. I've seen teams try and train the rangers to death or the monks and it doesn't work that easily with stand your ground up and the easily chained shield of absorb.

i will however agree with you that not many good teams go in anymore.

Alleji · Dec 20, 2006, 03:21 AM // 03:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gumby

A few suggestions:
1. Run an Orders Necro/Paragon and on the Rangers swap out Forked Arrow for Dual Shot And "Find Their Weakness!" for something else, such as Discharge Enchantment, Winnowing, or Frozen Soil.
2. On said Necro you may want
[skill]"Find Their Weakness!"[/skill][skill]Anthem of Envy[/skill][skill]"Go For The Eyes!"[/skill][skill]Order of The Vampire[/skill][skill]Awaken The Blood[/skill][skill]Well of Blood[/skill][skill]Blood Ritual[/skill][skill]Resurrection Signet[/skill]
or something similar
3. Drop Purge Signet on the monk
4. Since they added aftercast to Ranger interupts, it may be a good idea to go Dual Shot>Quick Shot>Savage Shot or somthing of the like.

Nice waste of an elite there... in fact, that bar just makes me cringe altogether, coupled with such brilliant suggestions as winnowing and quick shot.

Rspike is dead, please stop kicking its corpse.

Dahnel · Dec 20, 2006, 09:32 AM // 09:32

I'v run this build on a few occasions with Unknown, and i dont know how you can even say the spike is slow..

As for him stealing this from BRG, i dont see how that would be possible since we started playing this weeks BEFORE the champ point weekend.

I Brother Bloood I · Dec 20, 2006, 11:51 AM // 11:51

R Spike isnt dead. It still works fine with 3 spikers and orders. I did build last night with three spikers and 3 necros. 1 necro/rit spammed some spirits and did orders. 2 necro/monk healers. worked fine got to courtyard.

Alleji · Dec 20, 2006, 12:13 PM // 12:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by I Brother Bloood I

R Spike isnt dead. It still works fine with 3 spikers and orders. I did build last night with three spikers and 3 necros. 1 necro/rit spammed some spirits and did orders. 2 necro/monk healers. worked fine got to courtyard.

I know it works fine with 3 spikers and orders because I got at least 3000 fame playing rspike with 3 spikers and orders, but the backline shrinking from 3 monks + 2 necs (or some combination of monks, necs and a rit) to 2 monks + 1 necro didn't work too well.

I haven't seen any rspike hold in a loooong while (including Unknown's) which, to me, is an indication that it doesn't work well.

I Brother Bloood I · Dec 21, 2006, 01:26 AM // 01:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alleji

I know it works fine with 3 spikers and orders because I got at least 3000 fame playing rspike with 3 spikers and orders, but the backline shrinking from 3 monks + 2 necs (or some combination of monks, necs and a rit) to 2 monks + 1 necro didn't work too well.

I haven't seen any rspike hold in a loooong while (including Unknown's) which, to me, is an indication that it doesn't work well.

Agreed. We did better with a spear build we just came up with which was probably less of a spike but could hold really well.

defrule · Dec 23, 2006, 05:51 AM // 05:51

Why run dual superiors?

For a higher chance of critical hits I know, but to be honest I wouldn't sacrifice 75 health for the extra point in marksmanship. I would suggest

Marksmanship 12+3
Expertise 12+1+1
Command 3

Off the top of my head, I may have allocated things incorrectly.

killer toast · Dec 24, 2006, 12:06 AM // 00:06

1 paragon with angelic bond a monk bonder a lod monk and 3 spikers is pretty leet

defrule · Dec 24, 2006, 02:19 AM // 02:19

Not as leet as killer toast!