Curse

*lemming* · Dec 14, 2006, 08:59 AM // 08:59

http://gwshack.us/0d1bf

Rip it apart for me.

Wasteland Squidget · Dec 14, 2006, 09:24 AM // 09:24

I don't think IB is particularly strong on thumpers since the nerf, but a lot of people still like it. When NUKE ran dual thumpers we had Bull's Strike and Bestial Mauling as our two extra skills - coordinating covered daze on monks was a big help in breaking teams under the pressure.

The B-surge mesmer doesn't make any sense. It's a spike character in what's obviously a pressure build. If you want off-monk defense I'd run something like a Paragon to buff your physicals while supplying extra AL. Crippling Anthem is extremely juicy, and Incoming is also a nice choice for playing against eurospikes.

That necro really doesn't need Purge Signet if you're going to run Divert Hexes.

Thomas.knbk · Dec 14, 2006, 11:16 AM // 11:16

A hard res on the necro? you dont have fast casting or GoS there. Also you have a weird attribue spread on your runner. 3 hexes in the entire build is also a bit pointless. You need to either have a lot or none at all, or else hex removal will own you. Also, what are you going to use to remove conditions from your monks in case of a split? only one can get the draw necro. I'd exchange mend for dismiss.
And what Squidget said

Dragannia · Dec 14, 2006, 02:19 PM // 14:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wasteland Squidget

That necro really doesn't need Purge Signet if you're going to run Divert Hexes.

Definitely disagree here. Most dedicated hex teams run multiple copies of Sig of Humility, sometimes under Mantra of Inscriptions. A single Divert will end up useless half the match. I'd suggest one or even two Purge Sigs or non-Elite hex removals.

Jane Loves You · Dec 14, 2006, 04:17 PM // 16:17

I agree, you can't run one hex removal and expect that one to suffice. What if the monk gets overloaded with hexes? Mesmers will own your divert monk, nuff' said. Maybe you could run Mo/Me Hex Breaker and keep sig of devotion.

I don't see where you are going with Spiritual pain but I guess once you have degened the opposing team a little, you could pull off a little spike with the dervish, two thumpers and mesmer. Definately Dismiss Conditions>Mend Conditions, the faster recharge and self usage makes it ownage.

Thom Bangalter · Dec 14, 2006, 10:35 PM // 22:35

I like holy veil as non-elite hex removal, personally.

3 hexes in the entire build are fine if the hexes are freezing gust, deep freeze, and diversion.

But the mesmer is way out of place, you have a spike character in a pressure build.

Tainters already cry for energy, purge signet will hurt him even more.

I'd drop the mesmer for a trapper, personally.

Divineshadows · Dec 14, 2006, 11:09 PM // 23:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thom Bangalter

Tainters already cry for energy, purge signet will hurt him even more.

Casters that press their energy can make more effective use of purge signet than casters that have a lot of energy in reserve. All spellcasters should have lower and higher (~25, ~40, ~60) energy sets anyway and be able to weapon set swap to protect against energy losses from purge signet. Purge signet on a tainter works just fine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thom Bangalter

I like holy veil as non-elite hex removal, personally.

I agree that veil is the best non elite hex removal skill in the game due to its recharge, ability to control the enemy by causing their cast times to double, and flexibility to pre-veil. Purge signet is a close second though. Fast cast remove hex is 3rd best. Convert hexes, inspired/revealed (ever since the nerf), and deny hexes are all flawed in some fundamental way IMO but still usable. Shatter hex at high domination is just lethal, but hard to fit into team builds (a little easier if you have glyph of lesser energy on your bar). Smite hex is similar to shatter hex in that it is nice if you have a high spec in smite.

All other non-elite hex removals like reverse hex, hex eater signet, etc. are either garbage or too self-oriented to justify a skill slot (i.e. only remove hexes from self).

*lemming* · Dec 15, 2006, 07:57 AM // 07:57

Suggestions for a replacement for the mesmer so far are Paragon and Trapper?

I'd assume that a Paragon bar would have Crip Anthem/Fall Back/Never Surrender/Stand Your Ground/Aria of Zeal, but what else? Is running Sig of Return as the only hard rez safe?

I have no experience with trappers whatsoever; what elite would a bar be built around? I'd presume that it's either Oath Shot or Smoke Trap.

I'd suppose that the flagger would be better off running Mending Touch over Breeze, but is the att spread really weird?

Thomas.knbk · Dec 15, 2006, 11:17 AM // 11:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by tehlemming

I have no experience with trappers whatsoever; what elite would a bar be built around? I'd presume that it's either Oath Shot or Smoke Trap.

I'd suppose that the flagger would be better off running Mending Touch over Breeze, but is the att spread really weird?

Well, you have 12 HP. I think those points would be better in water for a 5sec gust.
For the trapper I'd take Oath as elite.

Thom Bangalter · Dec 15, 2006, 11:30 AM // 11:30

If you're JR you take escape. Otherwise, it's Oath shot. Paragons seem like a decent fit, but the trapper can trap offensively, putting more pressure on the enemy team by slapping crippled on people for your thumpers to beat on, or just trap around your monks to help against warrior beat down.

@Divine, you are right about purge being fine on a tainter. I'm just too in love with ether prodigy is all and get all sad when My energy returns aren't extraordinary. But yeah, you already have pretty low energy, swap down to a 0 energy set and go nuts. I still like veil in a good monk's hands though. Hex breaker is pretty good too if you're on monk and facing eurospike, because guess who gets the bulk of those diversions?

JR · Dec 15, 2006, 12:53 PM // 12:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thom Bangalter

If you're JR you take escape.

Escape owns.

Thom Bangalter · Dec 15, 2006, 12:59 PM // 12:59

One day JR, It will see serious play. I'll send you money for a beer if that happens. Convince someone in ICE to run it this weekend!

Neo-LD · Dec 16, 2006, 01:25 AM // 01:25

I agree with what was said earlier in the thread regarding purge signet - it is a very powerful anti-hex tool. Personally I view it as better than Veil, but I wont waste time quibbling about the differences between two good options. The simple fact is that Divert is unreliable since every hex team worth their salt has plenty of humility because they know they will face Divert. Enter the Purge Sig. Divine already touched on this, but again, Purge Signet is free, and is actually best on characters that frequently run tight on energy. Taint and Purge Sig is a match made in heaven.

There is also the matter of the BSurge Mesmer, which I agree is somewhat out of place here but dont think is out of the question. The suggestions I found in the thread for potential replacement were a Paragon with Crippling Anthem and a Trapper. While these would also be powerful, you must take into consideration what opposing teams will be doing to counter to you. What is everyone's favorite melee hate right now? What exactly happens when that hate is applied to several melee characters who are *all* enchanted? Theres pretty much only one way to keep your warriors reliably clean, and it ain't draw conditions. Draw can be shut down or outpaced. No, your best bet is to go straight to the jugular and shut off the opposing BSurges. Now, obviously, you dont need your own BSurge to do that, just about any old Mesmer will do. I would roll with ESurge, and would be happier than going with any of the other options mentioned here, Mesmer or otherwise.

*lemming* · Dec 18, 2006, 07:38 PM // 19:38

Another question: Would Gale on the Mesmer be worth dropping for a FC hard res?

Thomas.knbk · Dec 18, 2006, 08:58 PM // 20:58

Well, like they said, the entire mesmer would be worth dropping.

warriorsmiley · Dec 24, 2006, 04:44 AM // 04:44

Yeah that mesmer looks so lost. It would be nice to put a trapper in there if they knew how to play offensively and defensively at the sametime. As far as elites go it would be fun to play around with backline smoke traps (just to see the monks try to remove daze while they themselves are dazed while under constant melee pressure) but technically I would take oath shot and spam traps away with whirling defense up.