Curse

Patccmoi · Dec 21, 2006, 01:57 AM // 01:57

Honestly unrated matches are kinda hard to find and i wouldn't bother with them at all.

If you're ready to start, take advantage of the off-season to play a bit. But otherwise, a good tip for at least 1-2 seasons don't bother AT ALL with rating. Play as much as you can, get experience, if you lose 10 in a row obs your games and see what you could've done different, etc. Work on tactics and communication, playing with the same people as often as possible helps a lot for that. Honestly, organisation and communication (teamwork in general) is more crucial than individual player skill and you will only get that with experience. Sticking with the same build (or 2-3 that you rotate but not switching every 2 games) will help to develop it too as you can concentrate on teamwork and tactics instead of learning your own role/build.

If you expect to get decently ranked in the first seasons with players having little PvP experience it'll likely lead to desillusion and people rage quitting. Just play to get experience and improve, not to rank well. If you worry with rank and don't play rated games because you fear to have a bad rank you won't get anywhere.

HolyHawk · Dec 21, 2006, 02:11 AM // 02:11

Your PvE experience will teach you about what the skills do. PvP will make you skilled to play with them. That's the only aspect where pve is a parameter for pvp, imo. RA, for starters, is your best friend. GvG is probably the highest level of pvp play in gw, maybe you should spend some time in TA with your guildies first.

stueyman2099 · Dec 21, 2006, 04:08 AM // 04:08

It's my opinion that you should NOT make your own build. Find one you like on observer mode and copy it skill for skill. The general idea behind this is you can only blame yourself for losing a match if someone is using the exact same thing on the top of the ladder. And, not to sound rude, but until you reach that high level, you really won't know how to design a build. When NUKE first started copying builds from Te is when we really started getting good at the game. I also highly recomend you don't play spike, as it won't teach you how to actualy play the game despite getting you a good ladder rating.

Farin · Dec 21, 2006, 07:55 AM // 07:55

Yeah basically what Stuey said. I kind of liked PvE at first, and I kind of use it to get familiar to all the skill icons and what not, but now I can't stand it. At all.

Lightbulb · Dec 22, 2006, 10:10 AM // 10:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by stueyman2099

It's my opinion that you should NOT make your own build. Find one you like on observer mode and copy it skill for skill.

This really is good advice. Its basically what i was trying to say earlier.

Don't disadvantage yourself by playing a bad build.

I've played GvG games vs people with Whamo tanks, bonders and other PvE builds, even hard res on their Warriors or almost worse hard res on their monks. They just rolled over it wasn't even worth bothering with for either side. Its no fun losing in 5 to 10 minutes every game...

Wasteland Squidget · Dec 22, 2006, 10:25 AM // 10:25

Just as important as stealing a build is sticking with the build you stole, at least for a while. When you take a loss, don't blame the build. Try and figure out how you can use the build to your advantage to win more games. If possible, watch whoever you stole the build from facing a similar opponent and see how they play it.

Once you're familiar with beating a variety of opponents you can start making some modifications to the build.

lordelg · Dec 22, 2006, 10:40 AM // 10:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seltack

Disagree. Mesmers play a very important shut down role in GvG utilising the skills like shame diversion (which you mentioned, how you listed this as spiking idk, but whatever) blackout aswell as denial and interupts.

Key here is Spike Assist. Shame or Diversion on the Monks / Infusers Just before spiking is sometimes the difference between successful spike chains and unsuccesful spike chains. It can really frustrate the enemy if they cannot infuse properly during the spike or for the Following 60 Seconds!

warriorsmiley · Dec 22, 2006, 02:15 PM // 14:15

Seeing as you said you mainly played mesmer I suggest you play other caster classes get used to skills. As said before if you ask any hardcore pvper he/she will know every skill and what it does. If your best class is caster stick with hit dont try to play a melee class. Also find out what your guildmates are good at and what they like to play the most playing a class your comfortable with is going to make it easier to go from PVE to PVP.

Someone said steal a build from a top guild and copy it. Thats a good start but you must also learn what the characters role's are for the build and make sure the build is simple enough to play yet effective enough to win. Seeing as your starting in gvg making your builds isnt the best thing. Once you learn the ropes of gvging and get familar with how builds work you can start making your own diverse builds.

Your warriors or other melee classes are going to be a big source of your damage so they will have to learn how to play effectively. A huge mistake melee classes make especially warriors is overextending. They have to learn when to stretch out a little to collapse on a target and when not to overextend deep into enemy backlines. They also need to know when to change targets if the one they are on isnt dying. Sometimes if the other team is dumping all there energy and heals/prots on one target you can sometimes get away with jumping on another nearby and dumping your aderaline on him and you might score a kill.

Most importantly dont get discouraged by losing. If someone starts to develop a negative attitude because your just starting and are losing you have to pull him aside and tell him/her dont drag the guild down either you stay and help and maybe learn a few things yourself or the door is going to open up and your going to be gone. Nothing can drag a guild down faster then someone with a negative attitude lowering the whole guilds morale.

nova_lyphe · Dec 23, 2006, 09:53 AM // 09:53

Cheers guys and gals, this is fantastic.

I took the advice about sticking with caster classes and have began to play a monk, just to learn the basics behind the skills there is, what different skills do, whats spammable and whats not. This is inbetween playing in RA, i would go to TA but a few of the guildies are away for christmas, and i never seem to get anywhere in PUG's. Why a monk? Well when i asked my guild what their primary profession was, it was either Warrior or Ranger and i sure as hell dont want a GvG team made up of 6 warrior's or rangers, we need healers and i may be one of them.

Regarding builds, as many of you ave pointed out, im going to copy one. Ive been watching a great deal of GvG's in observe mode and watched a guild play the same build in 7 different matches and they won the lot. Here it is.

W/A - Frenzy --- Dismember --- Critical Chop --- Executioners Strike --- Shadow Prison --- Dash --- Healing Signet --- Res Sig

W/A - Frenzy --- Dismember --- Critical Chop --- Executioners Strike --- Shadow Prison --- Dash --- Healing Signet --- Res Sig

Me/Mo - Energy Surge --- Energy Burn --- Blackout --- Diversion --- Shatter Enchantment --- Drain Enchantment --- Inspired Hex --- Res Sig

Me/E - Blinding Surge --- Gale --- Diversion --- Spiritual Pain --- Wastrel's Demise --- Shatter Enchantment --- Glyph of Lesser Energy --- Res Sig

E/Mo - Glyphe of Lesser Energy --- Ward Against Melee --- Ward Against Foes --- Blinding Surge --- Lightning Orb --- Glyph of Sacrifice --- Gale --- Ressurection Chant

E/Mo - Didnt get the skills for this, but they ran the flag so im guessing it's a standard flag runner build.

Mo/Me - Sig of Devotion --- Gift of Heal --- Reversal of Fortune --- Hex Breaker --- Prot Spirit --- Zealous Benediction --- Dismiss Condition --- Ressurection Chant

Mo/W - Restore Condition --- Shield of Absorption --- Infuse Health --- Balanced Stance --- Spirit Bond --- Holy Veil --- Res Sig --- (dont know the last skill)

Is this a decent build for a starting guild, or should i keep looking around? Would you play it as it is, or change a few skills/characters?

Cheers

Nova

Thomas.knbk · Dec 23, 2006, 10:07 AM // 10:07

About everything about this build is fine, exept the monks. You REALLY don't want to have res on the monks. For one, you have glyphsac+res chant on the e/mo so you won't need it, and you DON'T want to cast an 8 sec spell. That would mean your monk can't heal or prot for 8 seconds. If your monk can't heal or prot for 8 seconds, it's very possible someone else on your team dies. The same is true to a lesser extend for res sig. You don't want your monks to res. That's someone else's job.

Bankai · Dec 23, 2006, 10:25 AM // 10:25

Instead of a res chant, I like Inspired hex with a 2 attribute investment (on the Mo/Me). That's a free hex removal.

Thom Bangalter · Dec 23, 2006, 10:57 AM // 10:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by nova_lyphe

W/A - Frenzy --- Dismember --- Critical Chop --- Executioners Strike --- Shadow Prison --- Dash --- Healing Signet --- Res Sig

W/A - Frenzy --- Dismember --- Critical Chop --- Executioners Strike --- Shadow Prison --- Dash --- Healing Signet --- Res Sig

Me/Mo - Energy Surge --- Energy Burn --- Blackout --- Diversion --- Shatter Enchantment --- Drain Enchantment --- Inspired Hex --- Res Sig

Me/E - Blinding Surge --- Gale --- Diversion --- Spiritual Pain --- Wastrel's Demise --- Shatter Enchantment --- Glyph of Lesser Energy --- Res Sig

E/Mo - Glyphe of Lesser Energy --- Ward Against Melee --- Ward Against Foes --- Blinding Surge --- Lightning Orb --- Glyph of Sacrifice --- Gale --- Ressurection Chant

E/Mo - Didnt get the skills for this, but they ran the flag so im guessing it's a standard flag runner build.

Mo/Me - Sig of Devotion --- Gift of Heal --- Reversal of Fortune --- Hex Breaker --- Prot Spirit --- Zealous Benediction --- Dismiss Condition --- Ressurection Chant

Mo/W - Restore Condition --- Shield of Absorption --- Infuse Health --- Balanced Stance --- Spirit Bond --- Holy Veil --- Res Sig --- (dont know the last skill)

Is this a decent build for a starting guild, or should i keep looking around? Would you play it as it is, or change a few skills/characters?

Cheers

Nova

First, it's probably good to know how to play monk semi-competently if you play mesmer at all so you can get used to countering their skills.

Those monk bars are kind of bad. There's no hex removal at all, both monks have rez, there's only one copy of shield of absorbtion, and sig of devo and zealous benediction don't synergize very well. There's also no draw conditions anywhere to be found, and ward against foes isn't that great in a spike oriented metagame which is the norm at the moment. If you were going to bring wards, I'd go with ward against melee+ward of stability, since most monks get knocked down during a spike and having a hard counter to that is going to help out a lot. You also don't have attunement on the blinding surge ele, which is problematic.

Both warriors should have rez, one of your mesmers should have rez chant, the other mesmer should have a sig, and glyph sac+rez chant is as good as a sig.

It's generally an ok build to run, mostly for learning; It can be used to advance far on the ladder, but many people will hate you for it--even though it's basically old school gale wars v2.0.

I'm sure everyone would be willing to play armchair quarterback with both the build, map choice, runing, and weapon setup too.

v for Valkier · Dec 24, 2006, 04:57 AM // 04:57

Build seems fine except for some minor problems.

Quote:

E/Mo - Glyphe of Lesser Energy --- Ward Against Melee --- Ward Against Foes --- Blinding Surge --- Lightning Orb --- Glyph of Sacrifice --- Gale --- Ressurection Chant

With (two)Blinding Surge, you really dont need the wards, its probably better to take Air of Attunement and another skill such as Enervating Charge or Draw Conditions(you want this either on the Ele or Mes).

Quote:

Mo/W - Restore Condition --- Shield of Absorption --- Infuse Health --- Balanced Stance --- Spirit Bond --- Holy Veil --- Res Sig --- (dont know the last skill)

You're missing Reversal of Fortune on this monk. With not many condition builds floating around in the metagame, its probably better to take Blessed Light instead of Restore Conditions. You can remove Holy Veil since you have Blessed Light, and add another condition removal such as Dismiss Condition. Again, you dont need res on a monk, so you can add Sig of Devotion(does wonders against pressure).

Other monk is fine except you dont want Res Chant on him, instead take Holy Veil since he has no other hex removal for other teammates.

Bloodied Blade · Dec 24, 2006, 07:21 AM // 07:21

I would Drop the res sig on the Mo/W along with Balanced Stance. I would go Mo/E for Aegis, but I'm not sure how well it would do in your build. You're likely better of with a hex removal and either Reversal or PS (ya, I know you have it on another monk already).

Eilsys · Dec 29, 2006, 12:29 AM // 00:29

Question; is your guild using Vent/TS/whatever? Because you'll need a lot of communication to run that build effectively. The Mesmers need to know when to Blackout a Monk, and to Gale the other one, and the target-caller needs to know when the other W is ready to spike. As long as you can do all that, the build looks good.

Infuse is also iffy on a Monk just starting in PvP... either they won't use it enough, or they use it too much.

Personally I like Balanced Stance, since it cancels the criticals you might get if you're running with your back to the enemy, and you won't get KD'd from Gale/Shock/Bull's Strike.