Curse

Throttle · Jan 03, 2007, 05:37 AM // 05:37

I don't play PvP much, mainly RA, so I'd like to know why people do certain things. It makes no sense to me but there must be a reason why:

In RA, it's common for people (especially monks) to leave right away if there's someone else on the team with the same profession. Makes little sense, especially because two monks on a RA team means you won't lose.

When observing GvG matches, mainly at night (Europe), I often see one team resigning right away after entering the game, and not because a team member didn't get in. Sometimes it happens several games in a row. What's the reason for this?

Soldat · Jan 03, 2007, 05:52 AM // 05:52

Concerning the RA situation: Sure, with two monks doing a good job healing the team, you may not lose, but you can almost always count on a long fight. With two monks, you're not going to have much damage to beat the other team, most of the time. Most monks will leave in this situation to save them time; no one wants to play a 10 minute battle in Random Arenas.

Terra Xin · Jan 03, 2007, 05:58 AM // 05:58

Quote:

When observing GvG matches, mainly at night (Europe), I often see one team resigning right away after entering the game, and not because a team member didn't get in. Sometimes it happens several games in a row. What's the reason for this?

It could either be because there was a few guilds that were trying to manipulate the ladder by resigning a while ago - don't know much about that... but I used to be in a guild that would resign immediately whenever we would be pitted against a guild that were ranks 1-100, just because we know we would lose :P. So yeah.

The Ernada · Jan 03, 2007, 06:32 AM // 06:32

What you observed in GvG isnt typical behaviour and so I don't know why it was happening. But in RA people will quit for any reason at all. It's the cesspool of GW, not just for player skill and experience but also for player's attitudes.

fallot · Jan 03, 2007, 08:16 AM // 08:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Throttle

Makes little sense, especially because two monks on a RA team means you won't lose.

Actually, it makes a lot of sense because you'll take a long time to win.

urania · Jan 03, 2007, 08:26 AM // 08:26

and you can still lose...

Shuuda · Jan 03, 2007, 08:37 AM // 08:37

Monks are so overrated, in just about everything, and I hate people who leave just cause their isn't one. RA requires self survival people.

sir lockt · Jan 03, 2007, 08:44 AM // 08:44

As playing mostly monk I noticed this as well in RA. When there are 2 monks, its like: omg, ... xxx has left the game... Still it depends mostly on the other chars... I have been in battles with 2 monks and 1 rit ON both sides...and that isnt fun, but for me no reason to leave. Of course I understand when others do. It makes no sense playing for 30 mins in RA.

The resigning in GvG is probably due to "fear" for the "top" guild. Instead of playing, losing and learning, alot of guilds choice to resign. That is all they will ever do...

dgb · Jan 03, 2007, 08:50 AM // 08:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Throttle

In RA, it's common for people (especially monks) to leave right away if there's someone else on the team with the same profession. Makes little sense, especially because two monks on a RA team means you won't lose.

A. They are extremely slow games. I only do RA to faction or glad point farm and slow games are the exact opposite of what I want.
B. Other monks tend to suck. Not allways, but often.

Makkert · Jan 03, 2007, 09:00 AM // 09:00

options:
1) 'the other monk' is not doing his job properly, you die quickly.
2) the other 2 professions are not primarary damage dealers. you are in for a long fight, where it is not unthinkable that you will be pressured out in the end.
3) you have a team with 2 monks and 2 other players capable of doing damage. after 3-5 games you run into a team that has a better balance, and will get pressured out. play the 1-5 games if you want, or leave after a won match in time so that you will be replaced.

Ensign · Jan 03, 2007, 05:28 PM // 17:28

Provided that you picked up two very strong damage templates (a Thumper and a Reapers Necro for instance) as your other two characters, a two Monk team can do ok. Otherwise, it's generally a waste of time. Two Monks don't synergize well at all, outside of the heaviest pressure there's going to be horrid overhealing going on. At the same time it is rather unlikely that your team will be dealing much damage at all, unless as stated you have two rather strong damage characters.

I don't think that two Monk teams are naturally stronger than one or even zero Monk teams. If you have strong players all around, great, you'll get a streak. If you have weak teammates? You're going to lose to the first decent team you run into. I guess the real difference is that a bad team with two Monks beats a bad team without Monks as the bad players with no support run in and die. If you're trying to get Gladiator Points, however, the only common characteristic of a two-Monk team is that they are *slow*. You'll spend several times as long winning every match as you would have in even a one Monk team, and if you run into another two Monk team, expect to be staring at each other for 20, 30 minutes until people start to quit in disgust.

As I play a Monk in RA to get practice on the template, and for the gladiator points, I'm disinclined to stick with another Monk on my team for very long. I'll almost always stay for at least one match to get a feel for my team (unless, you know, they can't kill anything, in which case I've gotten my evaluation and will leave), but after that I'm back to the district to try again. From experience, I can find another team that will go on a longish streak, and go on said streak, before that two Monk team will get to 5 games.

Peace,
-CxE

Divineshadows · Jan 03, 2007, 06:08 PM // 18:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

Provided that you picked up two very strong damage templates (a Thumper and a Reapers Necro for instance) as your other two characters, a two Monk team can do ok. Otherwise, it's generally a waste of time. Two Monks don't synergize well at all, outside of the heaviest pressure there's going to be horrid overhealing going on. At the same time it is rather unlikely that your team will be dealing much damage at all, unless as stated you have two rather strong damage characters.

QFT. Two monks in RA is actually quite bad now (worse than it was before) as most the better RA monks are using ZB. Having two copies of ZB on your team is an absolute nightmare. I have only made it to 10 wins once in RA when I was paired with another ZB monk. The overhealing was gross at times (both of us knew exactly where the < 50% mark is and would hit ZB at same time on same player), but we did have two strong damage characters an A/W and the other was either a rampage thumper or a hammer warrior (cannot exactly remember). Having two copies of holy veil and coordinating it to pre-veil our whole team before each match was fun though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

I don't think that two Monk teams are naturally stronger than one or even zero Monk teams. If you have strong players all around, great, you'll get a streak.

It's rare to get on a team with 4 good players with no monk and each contributing significant damage and shutdown. When it happens though, these teams are some of the most fun to be a part of.

What if... · Jan 03, 2007, 07:28 PM // 19:28

My best streaks have come from teams with no monks. They typically cut a pretty deep streak in to TA as well, always a lot of fun.

Former Ruling · Jan 03, 2007, 07:49 PM // 19:49

1) Two monk teams...bad. Most go to RA to piss around or get Glad Points, not sit there for an hour in 1 match with nothing ever happening to either team.

2) When a really horrible guild (like unranked) faces a top 100, they'll commonly resign either at the start or about 30 secs in after they get wiped.

shardfenix · Jan 04, 2007, 01:45 AM // 01:45

People leave in RA because they make false assumptions as to how good a team will perform.

People resign gvg because they make false assumptions as to how good a team will perform.

Basically, people give up because they are stupid.

Antheus · Jan 04, 2007, 03:03 AM // 03:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Throttle

I don't play PvP much, mainly RA, so I'd like to know why people do certain things. It makes no sense to me but there must be a reason why:

In RA, it's common for people (especially monks) to leave right away if there's someone else on the team with the same profession. Makes little sense, especially because two monks on a RA team means you won't lose.

Too defensive. One monk is all you need in RA. The more offense the better. Two monks simply ends in a slow, boring game. The worst team I was in was 2 spirit rits/2 monks. We could bore Jesus to tears with that.

Quote:

When observing GvG matches, mainly at night (Europe), I often see one team resigning right away after entering the game, and not because a team member didn't get in. Sometimes it happens several games in a row. What's the reason for this?

Depends. Ladder manipulation is one thing, various gimmick builds the other (SF heroway against a high ranked guild), too much of a rank difference for an inexperienced guild 800 vs 20 for example, boring matches (going against a severly defensive build with unsuitable build on your side).

Anyway, this part of GW should change now with new rules and no more need for ladder manipulation.

Muk Utep · Jan 04, 2007, 12:29 PM // 12:29

As long as there's no penalty for leaving and ruining the game for the rest, people will quit whenever there's the slightest thing that isn't completely in their favor. I've actually witnessed someone quitting a RA match at the beginning because they didn't like the map.

A two monk team might not be optimal, but they should at least see how the match goes. Things might be fine, in which case you can leave after you've won (or lost) instead of wasting 7 other players' time. A team of two monks and two heavy damage dealers will beat almost any other RA team, or at least be unable to lose.