Curse

TheOneMephisto · Jan 07, 2007, 07:26 PM // 19:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mokone

and yes, a good monk doesnt really need zb. theres actually someone who solo monks TA without gift. his only actual heal devotion and he does a fine job.

So I'm guessing that he never ever faces a team with interrupts or diversion?

moko · Jan 07, 2007, 09:05 PM // 21:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheOneMephisto

So I'm guessing that he never ever faces a team with interrupts or diversion?

hes Glad 7, so dont be silly now. diversion is easy to counter, and some teams do run an expel mesmer for monk support as well.

but tbh, there used to be and there still is a lack of interrupt rangers. migraine mes interrupt is around but its easy to counter. on the other hand, what interrupt can really get soa, rof, ps and stuff which are all 1/4 cast without tons of luck? >_>

but besides the point, just because you need gift, zb or even both, doesnt mean others need it as well. its a matter of practise, ive been trying the full prot as well and failed badly so far..dunno how he does it. ; ;

JR · Jan 07, 2007, 09:23 PM // 21:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mokone

and yes, a good monk doesnt really need zb. theres actually someone who solo monks TA without gift. his only actual heal devotion and he does a fine job.

He's not a particularly good monk if he gimps himself on purpose. ZB is very strong in 4v4, however much I dislike it in 8v8 - and a and a strong self heal is crucial.

Though I realise how hypocritical this sounds, given my lack of ZB...

TheOneMephisto · Jan 07, 2007, 09:26 PM // 21:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mokone

hes Glad 7, so dont be silly now. diversion is easy to counter, and some teams do run an expel mesmer for monk support as well.

but tbh, there used to be and there still is a lack of interrupt rangers. migraine mes interrupt is around but its easy to counter. on the other hand, what interrupt can really get soa, rof, ps and stuff which are all 1/4 cast without tons of luck? >_>

but besides the point, just because you need gift, zb or even both, doesnt mean others need it as well. its a matter of practise, ive been trying the full prot as well and failed badly so far..dunno how he does it. ; ;

He doesn't do it well unless he is running supplementary heals on other characters. Just b/c he's glad 7 doesn't mean that he got that all playing monk in TA, for instance, he could've farmed zaishen before the bug fix, farmed RA, or played other characters in TA.

The fact is that SoA, RoF, and PS are not direct heals. He can spam those as much as he likes, but if he's not healing then people's bars are still going to be going down. If your only "actual heal" is sig of devo then how do you make thsoe bars go back up? And spamming RoF is a horrible answer.

moko · Jan 07, 2007, 09:46 PM // 21:46

AFAIK hes running 16 divine (< something i utterly hate), which equals 50 or so health gained per spell, while devotion is a 100 or so spell. then of course theres a rof spam which will heal, and damage reduction by spamming soa and stuff, but however..i have no clue how he manages it, ive tried and failed badly so i cant answer to you. im just saying its possible, but i still advice to run gift. i just said you dont really need both gift and zb, and even if you hit through diversion or humility, it can still work out fine depending on your team.

and on another point, some teams kill fast enough so the monk doesnt even have to do much.

either way, can we end the discussion now? its rather pointless seeing how everyone has their own playing style.

was just trying to make it a bit better. <_>

Thomas.knbk · Jan 08, 2007, 05:47 PM // 17:47

If he got Glad 7 with only a 2 sec cast 5 recharge signet as a primary heal, I'm guessing he faced 7550 impossibly bad teams. SoD as only heal equals 14 health per second on your team. If that's your only direct heal and you still don't die, there's two options: he runs 2 monk backlines or he faced 7550 CRAP teams consecutively. FYI, one warrior equals about 50 DPS. two thumpers go well over 100 and feature continuous knockdowns which should be able to interrupt an SoD quite reliably.

And yeah, the build is pretty nice now I guess....
/thread topic restored

Etrik · Jan 10, 2007, 06:10 AM // 06:10

Seems like a decent build, don't see where you could go wrong really.

Tho I would make some changes.. first, the ugly E/Mo for a nice Grenth's Dervish, negating the need for Shatter, which can be sub'd for EBurn, to use during SP's huge downtime, creating further pressure and edenial.

Your monk is nice, but i'd rather have a ZB.. it just seems better than BL atm, I don't know why. Maybe it's because you have to wait for someone to be lacking 150+ health in either case, but with ZB you get the free heal. So anyways, the bar would be:

Rof, Gift, Mend Cond, ZB, Veil, SoA, Mend Touch, Spirit Bond; sub mend cond+touch for dismiss, if you want GoLE. Spirit Bond is just gold with all the Squirters going around, or so I think. Your warrior is just dandy.

Now I just need to find people in TA to test it, since me and my guild are out of sync (schedule-wise) atm.

Agyar · Jan 10, 2007, 02:28 PM // 14:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Etrik

Seems like a decent build, don't see where you could go wrong really.

Tho I would make some changes.. first, the ugly E/Mo for a nice Grenth's Dervish, negating the need for Shatter, which can be sub'd for EBurn, to use during SP's huge downtime, creating further pressure and edenial.

Your monk is nice, but i'd rather have a ZB.. it just seems better than BL atm, I don't know why. Maybe it's because you have to wait for someone to be lacking 150+ health in either case, but with ZB you get the free heal. So anyways, the bar would be:

Rof, Gift, Mend Cond, ZB, Veil, SoA, Mend Touch, Spirit Bond; sub mend cond+touch for dismiss, if you want GoLE. Spirit Bond is just gold with all the Squirters going around, or so I think. Your warrior is just dandy.

Now I just need to find people in TA to test it, since me and my guild are out of sync (schedule-wise) atm.

Wah? So you'd switch out the E/Mo with a vital part of the spike (you know, that spike that happens to feature in the title of the build/thread) and the support (wards, convert etc.)? Forgive me if I'm mistaken, but that's a pretty drastic change to the very nature of the build. I'm not sure how it would function with that change.

Also, the ZB vs BL monk bar debate isn't really relevant to the build singularly, rather as a more general debate. You could come up with a few different ZB and BL bars and as long as they both had the proper synergy with the support skill on the Ele it'd be fine, in the right hands. Half this thread is concerned with that debate, I know, but I do feel it's too general to bother debating in a single build thread (and of course, if it strikes your fancy, it'd be super-easy to sub in your own monk bar and go to town).

Etrik · Jan 10, 2007, 09:29 PM // 21:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Agyar

Wah? So you'd switch out the E/Mo with a vital part of the spike (you know, that spike that happens to feature in the title of the build/thread) and the support (wards, convert etc.)? Forgive me if I'm mistaken, but that's a pretty drastic change to the very nature of the build. I'm not sure how it would function with that change.

Also, the ZB vs BL monk bar debate isn't really relevant to the build singularly, rather as a more general debate. You could come up with a few different ZB and BL bars and as long as they both had the proper synergy with the support skill on the Ele it'd be fine, in the right hands. Half this thread is concerned with that debate, I know, but I do feel it's too general to bother debating in a single build thread (and of course, if it strikes your fancy, it'd be super-easy to sub in your own monk bar and go to town).

True, but it's easier to spike when the person has 0 enchants on, isn't it? And come to think of it, you're right about convert disappearing. That means you need to stick to BL and can't take ZB, due to all the hexes flying around and whatnot. That was just my opinion, which is of course open for debate.

Absum · Jan 11, 2007, 05:24 PM // 17:24

Looks like a fun build.. but you took YAA off the monk

I know having YAA as an elite reduces a monk's healing potential by a lot, but I'd like to try to make it work somehow. I don't have any great ideas now so I'll get back to you :P

I'd consider wastrel's in place of shame, because it looks to me like galing a monk would be enough to pull off a clean spike. Shame is nice if the monk has balanced stance or a ward of stability, but diversion can screw up his spike catching skills pretty well.

I'm not a big advocate of draw conditions being on secondary casters in TA. Mainly because of how imperative it is that they be able to do their primary job, and getting stuck with drawing blinds hinders that a lot. Taking draw on the monk works very well when there's enough support, and it appears there should be with wards up the majority of the time. If you were still running YAA on your monk I'd say yes, bring mend cond, but you have BL now ~,~;

Draw on the monk and purge on the ele is my preference. However, it looks like the build should run pretty solid as it is.