Curse

stueyman2099 · Dec 22, 2006, 08:44 AM // 08:44

Angelic bond doesn't add armor. It just redirects where the damage goes without any reduction. This is great against spike, but doesn't do much vs pressure.

Etrik · Dec 22, 2006, 11:35 AM // 11:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by stueyman2099

Angelic bond doesn't add armor. It just redirects where the damage goes without any reduction. This is great against spike, but doesn't do much vs pressure.

Dual Bonds = win.

JR · Dec 22, 2006, 12:54 PM // 12:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by stueyman2099

Angelic bond doesn't add armor. It just redirects where the damage goes without any reduction. This is great against spike, but doesn't do much vs pressure.

It's pretty good against heavy melee Warrior trains with a Grenth, where you can't rely on prot to keep your Monks up.

Thomas.knbk · Dec 22, 2006, 04:40 PM // 16:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

It's pretty good against heavy melee Warrior trains with a Grenth, where you can't rely on prot to keep your Monks up.

Still, I think it's nowhere near overpowered.

jktstance · Dec 22, 2006, 04:49 PM // 16:49

I might be a bit late on the Shadow of Haste debate, but whatever.

I think the problem with that skill (for others as well, most mostly for SoH because of the long duration) is the fact that you "return" to your previous location. You don't shadow step, which has a limited range. If the "return" was replaced with "shadow step," then ganking with SoH would be dangerous, but possible, with good positioning. Then again, it might be too much of a nerf and end up destroy SoH completely.

TheOneMephisto · Dec 22, 2006, 05:05 PM // 17:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by jktstance

I might be a bit late on the Shadow of Haste debate, but whatever.

I think the problem with that skill (for others as well, most mostly for SoH because of the long duration) is the fact that you "return" to your previous location. You don't shadow step, which has a limited range. If the "return" was replaced with "shadow step," then ganking with SoH would be dangerous, but possible, with good positioning. Then again, it might be too much of a nerf and end up destroy SoH completely.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guildwiki

Although the skill description is not precise on this point, your "return" is actually a shadow step, with all the restrictions that come with shadow steps.

GG. Shadow of Haste's return is actually a shadow step. Shadow steps have extremely long ranges, radar range in fact. Rarely will you need to shadow step beyond radar range when using SoH.

Patccmoi · Dec 22, 2006, 06:14 PM // 18:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by jktstance

I might be a bit late on the Shadow of Haste debate, but whatever.

I think the problem with that skill (for others as well, most mostly for SoH because of the long duration) is the fact that you "return" to your previous location. You don't shadow step, which has a limited range. If the "return" was replaced with "shadow step," then ganking with SoH would be dangerous, but possible, with good positioning. Then again, it might be too much of a nerf and end up destroy SoH completely.

As Mephisto said, it's a shadowstep.

But it remains simply too good. Shadow of Haste is REALLY ganking for dummies. You can teleport around sooo easily and gank and pressure as long as you have like more than 20% health. Then just press a button and even knockdowned you'll be teleported half the map away. AoD was harder to use because you still needed to target a foe to activate it, it was an enchant so easier to get rid of, and mainly it was your elite so it was balanced this way. But now Shadow of Haste/cancel just allows any kind of stupid ganker. Mindshockers, Crippling Anguish Me/A, hell even some W/A use it. There's just no limit to what you gank with as long as you can afford to invest like 5 in Shadow Arts (and go /A ofc). And it severly limits the other team's options because most of the time you'll lock part of their team in base and that part of the team often has no hope to kill you, just preventing you from doing too much damage. Shadow of Haste is a 'get out of jail free' card. I'm not sure what should be done with it, it's an important skill for assassins, but it's way too abusable by just anything that goes /A.

Mithie · Dec 22, 2006, 09:42 PM // 21:42

Put SoH under critical. Problem solved.

JR · Dec 22, 2006, 09:58 PM // 21:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mithie

Put SoH under critical. Problem solved.

That's like the "Move Blinding Surge to Energy Storage" argument. It is ridiculous, and makes absolutely no sense. It would limit the skill to primaries, but it would still be just as overpowered - only overpowered and in a completely unsuitable attribute line.

HolyHawk · Dec 22, 2006, 10:23 PM // 22:23

Regarding Angelic Bond, it's fine. It just splits dmg, won't reduce it, so the same amount will need to be healed. Keep in mind that you can reduce the dmg you take from it.

Seamus Finn · Dec 22, 2006, 11:58 PM // 23:58

... Honestly, if they nerfed shadow of haste into uselessness(and Bsurge as well) I could care less... It would still be better than the skills in the game working as they are right now.

TheOneMephisto · Dec 23, 2006, 12:01 AM // 00:01

For shadow of haste, I'd say something like a combination of slight nerfs to duration, recharge, and possibly adding a downside (i.e. skill blackout when it ends) would be fine.

Sinful Doom · Dec 23, 2006, 12:58 AM // 00:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by master_of_puppets

"Fear Me!" Increase adrenaline required from 4 to 6

I totally agree with this.

Sinful Doom · Dec 23, 2006, 01:09 AM // 01:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by brian3

why is it when we get new moves u all want them weakened in 1 way or another, jesus we can't have every skill balenced out to be equal, i see no problem with the skill's the way they are, just cause they keep killin u means u should change your tastic in fightin them

ROFL you obviously only pve.

Patccmoi · Dec 23, 2006, 01:10 AM // 01:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheOneMephisto

For shadow of haste, I'd say something like a combination of slight nerfs to duration, recharge, and possibly adding a downside (i.e. skill blackout when it ends) would be fine.

Ya, that would likely be fair. Something like 45s recharge, which you reach at say 7 Shadow Arts (so that you need to at least make a significant investment in attrib to use it without being forced to teleport back) and 8s skill blackout when it ends. Yes, 8s is a lot, but hell you should be half the map away. And if you're not, they deserve to kill you!

Sinful Doom · Dec 23, 2006, 01:43 AM // 01:43

I agree with most posts that many skills need to be tweeked or adjusted. I more so than anything want to see the "typical" ganking skills nerfed. In the past a ganker had to be damn sure he/she could go into a base, kill stuff and not get owned. Now with Shadow of Haste and Feigned Neutrality a blind monkey could be taught to have moderate success ganking and not get killed. Its so annoying to have a ganker nearly dead only to have them teleport 6 miles away and heal back up... The reward to risk currently is extreemly imbalanced.

Patccmoi · Dec 23, 2006, 02:04 AM // 02:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sinful Doom

I agree with most posts that many skills need to be tweeked or adjusted. I more so than anything want to see the "typical" ganking skills nerfed. In the past a ganker had to be damn sure he/she could go into a base, kill stuff and not get owned. Now with Shadow of Haste and Feigned Neutrality a blind monkey could be taught to have moderate success ganking and not get killed. Its so annoying to have a ganker nearly dead only to have them teleport 6 miles away and heal back up... The reward to risk currently is extreemly imbalanced.

Ya, and one thing that was shown in the tournament too is that ganking is very possible without Shadow of Haste. aNc did a really good job of ganking/harassing with their R/Mo, W/Mo and E/Mo and it was SO much more fun to watch than 2 people using Shadow of Haste -> gank -> teleport back, reactivate SoH... And i know from experience that it's a lot more fun to play when there's the thrill of ganking but having to manage to get out of it and skirmish without having that get out of jail free card.

tomcruisejr · Dec 23, 2006, 03:48 AM // 03:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

That's like the "Move Blinding Surge to Energy Storage" argument. It is ridiculous, and makes absolutely no sense. It would limit the skill to primaries, but it would still be just as overpowered - only overpowered and in a completely unsuitable attribute line.

at least Blinding Surge will be kinda easier to interrupt maybe. lol. we all know that blinding surge + spiritual pain under 1 class is win.

twicky_kid · Dec 23, 2006, 04:04 AM // 04:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by HolyHawk

Regarding Angelic Bond, it's fine. It just splits dmg, won't reduce it, so the same amount will need to be healed. Keep in mind that you can reduce the dmg you take from it.

Angelic bond the team and both monks alternate SoA on the paragon.

For very little energy on the monks you can prevent nearly 50% (at least 33%) of your team's dmg intake.

Surprised no one has abused this so far but now it will

You only need to protect key soft targets with angelic bond and let the monks handle the rest.

Thom Bangalter · Dec 23, 2006, 04:12 AM // 04:12

It also works well on ghostly heroes, if you still do HA.