Curse

darkrunner25 · Sep 28, 2006, 02:26 PM // 14:26

.....

necrosfeelyaks · Sep 29, 2006, 11:58 PM // 23:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by suiraCLAW

@

New list:
TA = 75% skill, 20% build, 5% luck
HA = 20% skill, 40% build, 40% luck (if you're talking about winning HoH)
GvG "gimmick" build = 60% skill, 35% build, 5% luck
GvG balanced build = 75% skill, 20% build, 5% luck
GvG split build = 85% skill, 10% build, 5% luck

I like how u have TA having more skill than HA lol, what a joke, are u talking about IWAY? becuase even in IWAY it takes some amount of skill more than 20%. GW does not involve very much luck no the grand scale of things. THe max luck anything has in GW is 3%. GW isnt about getting lucky. If a team beats you, its because your team a. wasnt lead well. b. the team that fought u was the bane of your build. c. the team that fought u was running balanced and you were out tacticted. There really isnt luck involved, unless you consider fighting crappy teams "lucky" I hate IWAY, but it still takes way more skill to run than a TA team. I like to think of TA as a 4-4 gvg split. Both theams have split evenly, now you are fighting half of there team with your half. Who wins?

Van Goghs Ear · Sep 30, 2006, 12:41 AM // 00:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by necrosfeelyaks

I like how u have TA having more skill than HA lol, what a joke, are u talking about IWAY? becuase even in IWAY it takes some amount of skill more than 20%. GW does not involve very much luck no the grand scale of things. THe max luck anything has in GW is 3%. GW isnt about getting lucky. If a team beats you, its because your team a. wasnt lead well. b. the team that fought u was the bane of your build. c. the team that fought u was running balanced and you were out tacticted. There really isnt luck involved, unless you consider fighting crappy teams "lucky" I hate IWAY, but it still takes way more skill to run than a TA team. I like to think of TA as a 4-4 gvg split. Both theams have split evenly, now you are fighting half of there team with your half. Who wins?

as a player who is almost an r6 gladiator, and almost an r8 tombser, I can safely say neither one is very sophisticated, hence why no respectable guild would take either into consideration when selecting its members. But ultimately, playing a good team in ta will give you the same level of difficulty as playing a good team in HA. Being on a good team in HA will give you the same level of ease as playing on a good team in TA.

Legendary Shiz · Sep 30, 2006, 01:51 PM // 13:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by necrosfeelyaks

I like how u have TA having more skill than HA lol, what a joke, are u talking about IWAY? becuase even in IWAY it takes some amount of skill more than 20%. GW does not involve very much luck no the grand scale of things. THe max luck anything has in GW is 3%. GW isnt about getting lucky. If a team beats you, its because your team a. wasnt lead well. b. the team that fought u was the bane of your build. c. the team that fought u was running balanced and you were out tacticted. There really isnt luck involved, unless you consider fighting crappy teams "lucky" I hate IWAY, but it still takes way more skill to run than a TA team. I like to think of TA as a 4-4 gvg split. Both theams have split evenly, now you are fighting half of there team with your half. Who wins?

Thing is, in HA your build is far far far more important than it is in TA. I think his 40% into luck is somewhat ridiculous, but I do think TA is more player skill based than HA is. Better players play HA, but I don't think it's a stretch to say TA takes mroe skill.

Sol Is Pyrrhus · Oct 02, 2006, 11:20 AM // 11:20

If you don't have anything else left to unlock, TA is just for killing time while you're waiting for an HA or a GvG group. The reward system accounts for pretty much nothing. It's pretty much either complete scrub teams or glad point farming guild groups in TA in the first place.

TA is nice, but not much higher on my list than AB.

Legendary Shiz · Oct 02, 2006, 01:51 PM // 13:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sol Is Pyrrhus

If you don't have anything else left to unlock, TA is just for killing time while you're waiting for an HA or a GvG group. The reward system accounts for pretty much nothing. It's pretty much either complete scrub teams or glad point farming guild groups in TA in the first place.

TA is nice, but not much higher on my list than AB.

You can tell when there are people that have never been in TA before, because of the way they talk about it.

To say that TA isn't much higher than AB is absurd. I don't even consider AB PvP.

TheOneMephisto · Oct 02, 2006, 08:49 PM // 20:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sol Is Pyrrhus

If you don't have anything else left to unlock, TA is just for killing time while you're waiting for an HA or a GvG group. The reward system accounts for pretty much nothing. It's pretty much either complete scrub teams or glad point farming guild groups in TA in the first place.

TA is nice, but not much higher on my list than AB.

Please don't even compare TA to ABs. If you're in a good team and you actually fight another good team in TA (about once per run), it can easily take more skill than HA, and is also much less build-dependent than HA.

I personally think that a GOOD team vs GOOD team battle in TA is more dependent on skill than HA games are. HA games are very dependent on build and luck.

TA is just pure PvP deathmatch, no fancy stuff, just basically whoever is better at killing wins.

Legendary Shiz · Oct 03, 2006, 01:56 PM // 13:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheOneMephisto

Please don't even compare TA to ABs. If you're in a good team and you actually fight another good team in TA (about once per run), it can easily take more skill than HA, and is also much less build-dependent than HA.

I personally think that a GOOD team vs GOOD team battle in TA is more dependent on skill than HA games are. HA games are very dependent on build and luck.

TA is just pure PvP deathmatch, no fancy stuff, just basically whoever is better at killing wins.

TA gets a bad name because of the PuGs that have 0 clue what they're doing. Just because people like that exist, doesn't mean people like Joan and Unko, and basically the RezQ roster, Eat roster, RA roster, res roster, etc don't exist. There are a lot of talented players in TA, and that's what this thread is about.

I personally think that Sol's post should be removed for shear lack of logic.

Absum · Oct 03, 2006, 02:03 PM // 14:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheOneMephisto

Please don't even compare TA to ABs. If you're in a good team and you actually fight another good team in TA (about once per run), it can easily take more skill than HA, and is also much less build-dependent than HA.

I personally think that a GOOD team vs GOOD team battle in TA is more dependent on skill than HA games are. HA games are very dependent on build and luck.

TA is just pure PvP deathmatch, no fancy stuff, just basically whoever is better at killing wins.

AB also comes down to whoever is better at killing... but it's mainly against AI. People that understand the concept of AB at all spend very little time fighting the players on the other team, and even when they do, it can't be compared to real pvp because it's just a chaotic mess(reminds me of WoW..).

If you spent a credible amount of time in TA, mephisto's point would be made very clear. I see people trying to discredit TA all the time, and I usually couldn't care less, but saying it's just above AB is preposterous.

Valkyrian · Oct 03, 2006, 04:17 PM // 16:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by suiraCLAW

@ audioaxes, agree: gvg requires a lot of skill, but on the other hand: there are builds like r-spike, fc-spike, triple smite or just builds using a rit wich require less skill (IMHO).

New list:
TA = 75% skill, 20% build, 5% luck
HA = 20% skill, 40% build, 40% luck (if you're talking about winning HoH)
GvG "gimmick" build = 60% skill, 35% build, 5% luck
GvG balanced build = 75% skill, 20% build, 5% luck
GvG split build = 85% skill, 10% build, 5% luck

BTW: using vent/ts is for me a part of the build...

/signed

Legendary Shiz · Oct 03, 2006, 07:53 PM // 19:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valkyrian

/signed

To say that HA takes that little skill is highly ridiculous, because of all the tactics that are involved in the capping and ghostly shiz,

I agree it is a lot of build, but to say that it takes that little skill is borderline ridiculous. You still need to kite, you have to know how to counter other builds, and not to mention you have to be able to run your own build effectively. And what about a balanced team? I think if you're going to split gvg into 3 categories, it's only fair to split HA into gimmick and balanced as well.

Program Ftw · Oct 13, 2006, 10:28 AM // 10:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheOneMephisto

ROFL. Yea, IWAY is a pretty sweet build to run in TA just for kicks. The thing is that noone is expecting it, and most teams just panic when they get three warriors on them with a bunch of spirits messing with them also. Fun stuff.

Me and some friends actually were the first (that I know of) to run IWAY in TA, we were basically bored and decided to go screw around a little. Think it was me, Program, Jermaine, and Eddy heals or something. Yea but we had some good times getting 20+ consec with that.

No, but we still run balanced quite a bit. We've been experimenting with a lot of builds, but when we really wanna just practice, test our skills, and get some glad points, balanced is the way to go. We also do a more casual balanced, basically, you get four people, designate melee hate, caster hate, melee, and monk, and then let people choose their own builds.

Eddy raged so hard about you saying "Eddy Heals or something" lols..

And yeah TA-IWAY is really ftw, very funny...

Sol Is Pyrrhus · Oct 13, 2006, 08:29 PM // 20:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Legendary Shiz

You can tell when there are people that have never been in TA before, because of the way they talk about it.

To say that TA isn't much higher than AB is absurd. I don't even consider AB PvP.

Sorry for your assumptions, but I've done TA with the Sno and Divineshadows, and I still don't think particularly highly of it. Talented players can pretty much go in there and just roll, all night long. 100 or 200+ streaks... doesn't that seem a bit imbalanced to you? The fact that one team can go in and beat 200 teams in a row? To me, that says TA is filled with a lot of scrubs, tbh. The only time good teams have a problem is when they come up against another TA guild; ie, Eat vs ResQ, or something along those lines.

I admit that it's not even close to AB, though. My apologies for the comparison.

Legendary Shiz · Oct 13, 2006, 08:58 PM // 20:58

I do understand what you're sayin mate, and I can agree that most of the times the fights are highly imbalanced.

I guess your AB comment just rubbed me the wrong way

Sol Is Pyrrhus · Oct 13, 2006, 09:45 PM // 21:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Legendary Shiz

I guess your AB comment just rubbed me the wrong way

Yea, it was a stupid thing to say; I think it was late, and I wasn't thinking straight. Comment is rightfully retracted.

Legendary Shiz · Oct 13, 2006, 09:47 PM // 21:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sol Is Pyrrhus

Yea, it was a stupid thing to say; I think it was late, and I wasn't thinking straight. Comment is rightfully retracted.

Peace and Harmony is restored (hehe)

Kex Doomlich · Oct 17, 2006, 12:17 PM // 12:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by necrosfeelyaks

I like how u have TA having more skill than HA lol, what a joke, are u talking about IWAY? becuase even in IWAY it takes some amount of skill more than 20%. GW does not involve very much luck no the grand scale of things. THe max luck anything has in GW is 3%. GW isnt about getting lucky. If a team beats you, its because your team a. wasnt lead well. b. the team that fought u was the bane of your build. c. the team that fought u was running balanced and you were out tacticted. There really isnt luck involved, unless you consider fighting crappy teams "lucky" I hate IWAY, but it still takes way more skill to run than a TA team. I like to think of TA as a 4-4 gvg split. Both theams have split evenly, now you are fighting half of there team with your half. Who wins?

Euhm, well, why dont we talk about rewards for example. FYI im r2 glad (almost r3), and r2 hero (goin for at least rank6

). In order to get some fame, still while there was 8 vs 8...i could take IWAY warrior, and go bashing for enemy monk or any squish that comes nearby to gain some fame for one hour. I also played some OOA, simply spamming OOA, eventualy casting Mark of Pain, or some Extinguish and healing seed...and ofc, infusing sometimes when crazy iway warr crashes into the wall and loses 75% of hp. Now in 6 vs 6, I play a bit dual smite and balance. More dual smite atm. Rush into group or on monk, do your stuff...heres like 20 fame in 30 minutes. For a starters who is getting to r3 its not that bad. Fck it, i even farmed some fame with henchway.

However...in TA, in order to get glad point, you need to win 10 consecutives. 10 different team where you get pretty good chances to run into non-PUG organised team. Hex spike, balanced, wither degen-pressure combo(this stuff always rapes you if you lack interrupts or expell hexes), NR teams, high pressure teams, etc. You have to run through 10 teams to get only 1 glad point.

So i think this pretty much tells how much is one rank usually worth, and how much another one. IMSHO i can say, hey look at all those r3-r6 guys, most of them has probably seen HOH like 5 times in their HA career, but they sure have farmed some fame in first few maps of HA. Then I can say, hmm, well look at this r1-2 glad guy. He Fcking worked his ass out to gain his title (though, true, he could have maybe farmed it with toucher or something in RA), cuz...only to get one glad point you need to play like at least 30 minutes in one consecutive game.

So, on the one side, we have HA where you can farm 20 fame in 30 minutes with no problem, you win some, you lose some, but fame is there.
On the other side, you have TA where you need to win 10 consecutives which takes about 30 minutes, however, if you fck up on 10th game, or 9th, or 8th, or 5th, you already lost a lots of time, and you didnt get anything.

I think this tells much about skill and ranks.

However, in order to see are glad points farmable like HA...i will go for a few days, and run a toucher in RA, just to see will I get any more glad points than during my usually day playing with other nonnoob builds.

Program Ftw · Oct 17, 2006, 12:30 PM // 12:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Legendary Shiz

Who's dominating TA?

I am.

TheOneMephisto · Oct 17, 2006, 11:49 PM // 23:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Program Ftw

I am.

ROFL. Run, Program has a gwg account.

The Real Roy Keane · Oct 18, 2006, 12:43 AM // 00:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kex Doomlich

Euhm, well, why dont we talk about rewards for example. FYI im r2 glad (almost r3), and r2 hero (goin for at least rank6

). In order to get some fame, still while there was 8 vs 8...i could take IWAY warrior, and go bashing for enemy monk or any squish that comes nearby to gain some fame for one hour. I also played some OOA, simply spamming OOA, eventualy casting Mark of Pain, or some Extinguish and healing seed...and ofc, infusing sometimes when crazy iway warr crashes into the wall and loses 75% of hp. Now in 6 vs 6, I play a bit dual smite and balance. More dual smite atm. Rush into group or on monk, do your stuff...heres like 20 fame in 30 minutes. For a starters who is getting to r3 its not that bad. Fck it, i even farmed some fame with henchway.

However...in TA, in order to get glad point, you need to win 10 consecutives. 10 different team where you get pretty good chances to run into non-PUG organised team. Hex spike, balanced, wither degen-pressure combo(this stuff always rapes you if you lack interrupts or expell hexes), NR teams, high pressure teams, etc. You have to run through 10 teams to get only 1 glad point.

So i think this pretty much tells how much is one rank usually worth, and how much another one. IMSHO i can say, hey look at all those r3-r6 guys, most of them has probably seen HOH like 5 times in their HA career, but they sure have farmed some fame in first few maps of HA. Then I can say, hmm, well look at this r1-2 glad guy. He Fcking worked his ass out to gain his title (though, true, he could have maybe farmed it with toucher or something in RA), cuz...only to get one glad point you need to play like at least 30 minutes in one consecutive game.

So, on the one side, we have HA where you can farm 20 fame in 30 minutes with no problem, you win some, you lose some, but fame is there.
On the other side, you have TA where you need to win 10 consecutives which takes about 30 minutes, however, if you fck up on 10th game, or 9th, or 8th, or 5th, you already lost a lots of time, and you didnt get anything.

I think this tells much about skill and ranks.

However, in order to see are glad points farmable like HA...i will go for a few days, and run a toucher in RA, just to see will I get any more glad points than during my usually day playing with other nonnoob builds.

All I can say is that getting to R6 was a bigger pain than getting to R2 glad.