Curse

Legendary Shiz · Aug 06, 2006, 08:00 AM // 08:00

So it seems that TA doesn't seem to get the same respect that gvg guilds, or HA get. IMO TA *can be* just as hard as a good HA game.

I guess it's tough to really notice the dominating people, because it isn't announced like HA and it doesn't show up on a rank thing like GvG. Though you usually see all the good glad titles come from a select number of guilds.

For me personally, I think it's quite easy to see who's the best in TA.

Rage Quitters of [TA] is a great TA guild. I actually saw Blood On My Nikes the other day in an arena. Great player, hilarious guy. We were making fun of this wammo that brought IWAY and we would guess Mending on our team.

But besides [TA] I also think that [eat] is obviously an elite TA guild.

fatboyslimerr · Aug 06, 2006, 09:34 AM // 09:34

I think people don't give TA the same respect merely because games happen so quickly. You could perhaps do 3 or 4 TA games in the space of one HA and maybe 7 or 8 TA games in the space of a GvG.

Some people prefer the prolonged thought requiring strategy of GvGs and HA over the short, wam bam strategy of TA.

I would say, not so much a guild is dominating TA but a build. Most of the time when your on 9 wins or 19 wins even 29 wins you'll come up against someone using that damned awful degen build where they basically spam degen hexes and immolate you all. Little skill, lots of degen, bloody difficult to monk against. It sucks.

Dragannia · Aug 06, 2006, 10:51 AM // 10:51

My guild used to do a lot of TA, but now we're mostly GvG. 300 wins without losses in TA was our longest streak. Ahh..those were the days.

Seventh · Aug 06, 2006, 11:00 AM // 11:00

OMG Dragannia, thats like 30 glads points. That is also the longest winning streak i have ever heard of. Got any proof?

Dragannia · Aug 06, 2006, 11:06 AM // 11:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seventh

OMG Dragannia, thats like 30 glads points. That is also the longest winning streak i have ever heard of. Got any proof?

This was done wayyyy before Factions came out, so of course I don't have any proof. You can believe what you want.

sno · Aug 06, 2006, 12:35 PM // 12:35

Thanks for the shout Shiz, we try

. I think the reason we're better than most is that we play really solid builds that are gvg-styled. Most TA people have a mentality that "I'm a ____, I must kill the _____" which is not the way to balance yourself and win matches. We usually run a really heavy pressure build, with no monk hate at all, except the fact that he'll edeny himself silly with all the pressure we put on them. We're also almost always in all-guildie groups, and always in vent, which helps a lot.

We take our TA seriously, because it's how most of us met, and it helps us synergize our gvg team and get more familiar with playing styles and strengths.

We don't really run into too many good guild groups tbh, but in the past good ones have been around. [DtwO] was always good, and we fought a few [WM] mass hex teams that were... well, korean. [TA] isn't bad, nor are [Fame] or [DBD], but we don't generally have much trouble with them if our whole group is from our core players. I'm sure I've missed a few, and I apologize, but those are the ones we usually have to try against.

As a guild, [eat] has the TA metagame pretty much down, so the only things that rattle us are the occasional oddball team, and only because we don't expect such weird builds. Once we step back though we can usually come back from a man or two down, if we can figure out why they're beating us.

JR · Aug 06, 2006, 02:08 PM // 14:08

I've seen and had the pleasure of playing with [DPS] in TA a few times recently. Running a pretty cookie-cutter dual thumper/curses mes/boon build, but very well. I would say [eat] are definately the guild to fear in TA at the moment though.

devilru · Aug 06, 2006, 02:17 PM // 14:17

[eat] and [TA].
Avarre also comes up with nasty builds in TA, not sure how much he plays there though.

glountz · Aug 06, 2006, 02:18 PM // 14:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatboyslimerr

I think people don't give TA the same respect merely because games happen so quickly. You could perhaps do 3 or 4 TA games in the space of one HA and maybe 7 or 8 TA games in the space of a GvG.

TA have not the same respect only because of the reward. There's not reward in TA, but damn it can be really difficult. GvG is said "the higher PvP ground" only because there is guild rank, and ultimately, World Championship that earn you money if you win. That's a lot more incentive than the HA character rank. That's why, also, you'll see the best players concentrate on GvG, keeping a high quality PvP, where the reward is really good, instead of TA or even HA.
Still, these same best players test their builds in TA (or tested, now there are Scrimmage battles).
If TA had a team reward (else than gladie points), then PVPer's would get interested into and the quality of play would be really increased.

audioaxes · Aug 06, 2006, 05:54 PM // 17:54

im quit sure there are many guilds that can dominate TA but just dont play it often
my guild would occasionally play in TA often with fool around builds, some without a monk and still end up crushing through and retiring undefeated

Wasteland Squidget · Aug 06, 2006, 06:58 PM // 18:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by glountz

TA have not the same respect only because of the reward. There's not reward in TA, but damn it can be really difficult. GvG is said "the higher PvP ground" only because there is guild rank, and ultimately, World Championship that earn you money if you win. That's a lot more incentive than the HA character rank. That's why, also, you'll see the best players concentrate on GvG, keeping a high quality PvP, where the reward is really good, instead of TA or even HA.
Still, these same best players test their builds in TA (or tested, now there are Scrimmage battles).
If TA had a team reward (else than gladie points), then PVPer's would get interested into and the quality of play would be really increased.

To some degree, sure, but I think a lot of it is just that 8v8 has more room for tactics and a variety of builds. GvG has multiple control points, NPCs, and massive maps which make room for all kinds of splits and varying tactics.

In a straight-up 8v8 fight, individual player skill becomes less crucial and the coordination of your team is more important. 4v4 is where I think individual player skill is more important than anywhere else. Dodging that one projectile or interrupting that one spell really can make the difference between winning and losing a 4v4 match.

Sparrow · Aug 06, 2006, 08:02 PM // 20:02

[Eat] does dominate. It is rare for us to lose to the same team consistently but [Eat] is one of those. [TA] is no slouch but honestly [Eat] is the one team I fear. [ROFL] has beaten us a few times but we don't face them enough to really get a feel for them.

Lately also I have noticed some high ranked guilds that we had formerly beaten easily start to adjust to the TA meta-game. The top 50 guilds that think they can come in and just stomp everyone with whatever they happen to bring usually go down fairly easily against anyone with a plan. So it is nice to see some actual thought being put into it now, even if it does mean some more difficult matches.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

I've seen and had the pleasure of playing with [DPS] in TA a few times recently. Running a pretty cookie-cutter dual thumper/curses mes/boon build, but very well. I would say [eat] are definately the guild to fear in TA at the moment though.

I faced that team and it was annoying because that is a build we run frequently (though not that night). Their Me/N was running my exact build, skill for skill (no, it's not posted anywhere). Either an odd coincidence or a compliment, not sure which. NR owns that build unfortunately, yet another reason I hate facing Eat (they run NR frequently and well.)

Foppe · Aug 06, 2006, 09:23 PM // 21:23

These are only Americans i guess?

remmeh · Aug 07, 2006, 12:56 AM // 00:56

tbh the only team that would scare me is [Eat] because they're the only team i lose to pretty consistently =) i play with [TA] all the time and they're a great group of very skilled people. [ROFL] has given me a run for my money a few times too. and [QQ] has had me hitting my head on my keyboard before as well.

TA is a fun time :P

Loch · Aug 07, 2006, 03:08 AM // 03:08

Team Arenas needs a ladder and observer mode for the top guilds on the ladder, dammit. Why is it that 4v4 can't be considered a serious PvP format?

TA is excellent fun, and it sure beats HA where forming a team takes a freakin' eternity, even when half your team is guildies.

Hanego Ategeh · Aug 07, 2006, 04:53 AM // 04:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loch

Team Arenas needs a ladder and observer mode for the top guilds on the ladder, dammit. Why is it that 4v4 can't be considered a serious PvP format?

Maybe this could be done for TA.

I'd watch it.

Red Locust · Aug 07, 2006, 07:07 AM // 07:07

TA doesn't get as much respect as 8v8 because success in TA depends more on build and less on skill when compared to other pvp.

I usually grab some friends/guildies and TA for the heck of it; sometimes we roll the supposed best TA guilds, sometimes we get rolled. It's really a roll of the dice more than anything when two teams of similar skill level meet; everyone puts everything out and the first team to crack usually falls (barring big mistakes).

suiraCLAW · Aug 07, 2006, 07:58 AM // 07:58

Quote:

success in TA depends more on build and less on skill

I disagree.

IMO:
TA = 75% skill, 20% build, 5% luck
HA = 20% skill, 40% build, 40% luck (if you're talking about winning HoH)
GvG = 60% skill, 35% build, 5% luck

Reason: if you would make a group in TA with 4 players who are completely new/bad/noob in pvp but all with a decent build, you wont get far (max 2 consec). But it's a fact that iway pugs (with new/bad players) will get "pretty" far (on condition that they all have the right build).

Back on topic: [eat], [ta] and probably [rofl] are doing extremely well in TA...

audioaxes · Aug 07, 2006, 08:13 AM // 08:13

thats just silly
GvG requires much more skill because you rely not on both micro tactics on how to play like body blocking, spikes, kitting, dodging, etc but also macro tactics with field positioning, morale boosts, splitting

suiraCLAW · Aug 07, 2006, 09:57 AM // 09:57

@ audioaxes, agree: gvg requires a lot of skill, but on the other hand: there are builds like r-spike, fc-spike, triple smite or just builds using a rit wich require less skill (IMHO).

New list:
TA = 75% skill, 20% build, 5% luck
HA = 20% skill, 40% build, 40% luck (if you're talking about winning HoH)
GvG "gimmick" build = 60% skill, 35% build, 5% luck
GvG balanced build = 75% skill, 20% build, 5% luck
GvG split build = 85% skill, 10% build, 5% luck

BTW: using vent/ts is for me a part of the build...