Curse

Wasteland Squidget · Dec 12, 2006, 07:28 AM // 07:28

LoD runners are pretty good for certain kinds of defense, but it can take a lot of effort to support them. Playing a lot of warrior bars (especially hammers or bars with Distracting Blow), I can solo LoD runners pretty quickly. When I see an LoD guy running the flag I try and catch him out of his team's range as often as possible, and I can often force boosts that way.

They're not bad runners overall and their ability to heal NPCs until help arrives is nice, but overall I prefer E/Mos. Freezing Gust and Gale are both extremely powerful defensively and offensively in skirmish, and they're also some of the most useful tools for pushes and forcing boosts at the flagstand.

HolyHawk · Dec 12, 2006, 06:50 PM // 18:50

I agree with squidget, LoD can help in certain situations, but I'm not sure if a character that can heal npcs and himself only is suitable for a defense position anymore. Freezing gust is a hell of a good skill, and elementalists are more open to use different skills other than pure support.

twicky_kid · Dec 13, 2006, 04:01 AM // 04:01

Shouldn't a D/A mel's avatar be added to this list.

800 life, immune to conditions (leet for fire island), pious restoration for hex removal. Completely immune to SF.

I don't think there is a single build that can take it on solo.

Cripshot is no match

Crip anguish mes is no match

Sin can't kill w/o deep wound

Blind surge won't work

LoD = lol

Your all alone won't work

bluechestdude · Dec 13, 2006, 04:35 AM // 04:35

itd be a good solo runner but does it offer support for the team? I mean it can offer melee support but its a runner if there is a cap war then it wont be fighting, and lack of energy means lack of healing friends...plus avatar of melandru ends before the 120 sec refcharge is over.

twicky_kid · Dec 13, 2006, 04:47 AM // 04:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluechestdude

itd be a good solo runner but does it offer support for the team? I mean it can offer melee support but its a runner if there is a cap war then it wont be fighting, and lack of energy means lack of healing friends...plus avatar of melandru ends before the 120 sec refcharge is over.

I've had no energy trouble. 4 pips regen and 5e cast skills for the most part. You don't really need that many attack skills.

Morale boost = skills recharged. Since you are ganking their base and have to send at least 2 people if not 3 to deal with you its much easier to hold the stand.

QQ used this tactic with a D/A and a sin. Even in the mel's downtime the mobility from the assassin skills made him very had to deal with. Between the Sin and derv they could clear a base quickly and retreat just as fast.

Program Ftw · Dec 13, 2006, 10:35 AM // 10:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

Shouldn't a D/A mel's avatar be added to this list.

800 life, immune to conditions (leet for fire island), pious restoration for hex removal. Completely immune to SF.

I don't think there is a single build that can take it on solo.

Cripshot is no match

Crip anguish mes is no match

Sin can't kill w/o deep wound

Blind surge won't work

LoD = lol

Your all alone won't work

Cripshot? Interupt the avatar is ftw. Or just kite for a minute, then you're screwed. I've faced enough of these to know how to counter it. Also, it is no help to your team, great a +200hp plant on steroids is running around!

Thanks,
Program~

Wasteland Squidget · Dec 13, 2006, 11:26 AM // 11:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Program Ftw

Cripshot? Interupt the avatar is ftw. Or just kite for a minute, then you're screwed. I've faced enough of these to know how to counter it. Also, it is no help to your team, great a +200hp plant on steroids is running around!

As single gankers, Melandru dervishes are pretty bad. As part of a gank team they can be a lot scarier, since other characters on the team (especially B-surge guys) can shore up the Avatar's weaknesses. Support also allows them to accomplish something while the avatar is down, since they can freely use scythe skills and do decent damage so long as other characters are providing the snares and defense necessary.

bluechestdude · Dec 13, 2006, 11:47 AM // 11:47

lol itd be good if i actually read the title thought u were talking about flaggeres from the LoD monk...melandru dervishes..hmmm personally i just think they wont do enough damage and when the melandru ends then blind and whatnot will just wreak havoc...if u want a ganker than go d/mo with mending touch and ebon dust aura.

Etrik · Dec 13, 2006, 11:50 AM // 11:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Program Ftw

Cripshot? Interupt the avatar is ftw. Or just kite for a minute, then you're screwed. I've faced enough of these to know how to counter it. Also, it is no help to your team, great a +200hp plant on steroids is running around!

Thanks,
Program~

Imbue Health, draw conditions. Derv wins.

twicky: how often did you see a Crip Anguish mes in GvG? El, Oh, El.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluechestdude

lol itd be good if i actually read the title thought u were talking about flaggeres from the LoD monk...melandru dervishes..hmmm personally i just think they wont do enough damage and when the melandru ends then blind and whatnot will just wreak havoc...if u want a ganker than go d/mo with mending touch and ebon dust aura.

Wounding Strike + Crippling Sweep + Signet of Malice = win.

Wasteland Squidget · Dec 13, 2006, 12:11 PM // 12:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Etrik

twicky: how often did you see a Crip Anguish mes in GvG? El, Oh, El

OUT ran one against us the other week. It's still a pretty strong skirmish template, actually. With everyone and their brother carrying Mending Touch to counter conditions, hex snares are some of the only things you can reliably stick on people in skirmish.

timmyw29 · Dec 13, 2006, 12:18 PM // 12:18

Just did that sheep reaction time thing... I laughed. 0.2322 seconds reaction time. You are rated --> Bobbing Bobcat.

They say I need to improve Q_Q;

twicky_kid · Dec 13, 2006, 06:21 PM // 18:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluechestdude

lol itd be good if i actually read the title thought u were talking about flaggeres from the LoD monk...melandru dervishes..hmmm personally i just think they wont do enough damage and when the melandru ends then blind and whatnot will just wreak havoc...if u want a ganker than go d/mo with mending touch and ebon dust aura.

That's the point. If they send a b-surge to their base to deal with the dervish during the down time you lose that much def at the stand.

Most teams cannot split very well. Mels make it that much harder to decide what to send back while not losing the stand. Mels makes it very hard to decide what to send back to deal with the gank team. It doesn't even matter if the Dervish kills 1 NPC before helps arrives to def their base. If they are at their base they are not at the stand. To be able to def their base they have to lose some def at the stand.

Seamus Finn · Dec 13, 2006, 10:44 PM // 22:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Program Ftw

Cripshot? Interupt the avatar is ftw. Or just kite for a minute, then you're screwed. I've faced enough of these to know how to counter it. Also, it is no help to your team, great a +200hp plant on steroids is running around!

Thanks,
Program~

Yes, well with the ownage of Natural Stride, Cripshot seems to me to be the god of all-around splitting. The problem with Melandru's alone is he is pretty kitable to most other skirmish templates while the avatar is up, and those that can't deal with him can usually turtle with npcs and heal them well enough untill the avatar goes down. Illusion mes would own most malandru's, although there's a strong hex removal in the Wind line I think that acts something like CoP. But that's another slot on the bar of a character that might just be better off pressuring at the stand. We did run a build where the melandru was accompanyed by an odd smite monk to deal reactively with splits and well, let's just say the base ganking was dealth with rather easily.

I like melandru's at the stand quite a lot though, since, if other characters can handle snares Melandru's can bring the damage and be pretty much unhindered.

.defekt · Dec 14, 2006, 02:01 AM // 02:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Etrik

Imbue Health, draw conditions. Derv wins.

Pretty sure you cant Imbue yourself.

And did you completely forget that the ganker in discussion is a D/A? Unless you can have a D/A/Mo, bringing Draw Conditions may be viable.

Etrik · Dec 14, 2006, 03:17 AM // 03:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seamus Finn

Yes, well with the ownage of Natural Stride, Cripshot seems to me to be the god of all-around splitting. The problem with Melandru's alone is he is pretty kitable to most other skirmish templates while the avatar is up, and those that can't deal with him can usually turtle with npcs and heal them well enough untill the avatar goes down. Illusion mes would own most malandru's, although there's a strong hex removal in the Wind line I think that acts something like CoP. But that's another slot on the bar of a character that might just be better off pressuring at the stand. We did run a build where the melandru was accompanyed by an odd smite monk to deal reactively with splits and well, let's just say the base ganking was dealth with rather easily.

I like melandru's at the stand quite a lot though, since, if other characters can handle snares Melandru's can bring the damage and be pretty much unhindered.

Even if Cripshots own - they can't play in the WF season. *sniff*

Quote:

Originally Posted by .defekt

Pretty sure you cant Imbue yourself.

And did you completely forget that the ganker in discussion is a D/A? Unless you can have a D/A/Mo, bringing Draw Conditions may be viable.

I was on about what it does for the team. It's great support. Except if he has frag on and draws 4-5 conditions off someone. Massive-ass spike

. He can go D/Mo and be just as good of a ganker. Holy veil comes to mind.. free hex removal!

Thomas.knbk · Dec 14, 2006, 11:22 AM // 11:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Etrik

I was on about what it does for the team. It's great support. Except if he has frag on and draws 4-5 conditions off someone. Massive-ass spike . He can go D/Mo and be just as good of a ganker. Holy veil comes to mind.. free hex removal!

If he does that he's a total moron and deserves to be spiked. And noone uses frag.

Earendil · Dec 15, 2006, 12:33 PM // 12:33

Mel's runners are good but conditional. They are very hard to kill by an enemy flagger. I got shutdown with water hexes (did not bring pious restoration).

If you just want to trade flags - its hard to beat. He can acually run through an enemy 4 people group with little support and cap the stand. The recharge time on avvie is not relevant if you keep running back and forth. And he is capable of killing with only two attack skills (Wearying + victorious)

Interrupting the Avatar sounds really like a difficult idea to me (with all the respect due to a Program) - I mean - why turn it on when you're in range of the enemy ? Whats the point ?

An idea would be to have two potential flag runners in the team - including a Mel's Dervish and send the one that most fits the enemy flaggers. A Mel's avatar can still do a lot of pressure damage at flagstand while also being capable of slight overextensions to finish an enemy monk.

Program Ftw · Dec 15, 2006, 01:44 PM // 13:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Earendil

Interrupting the Avatar sounds really like a difficult idea to me (with all the respect due to a Program) - I mean - why turn it on when you're in range of the enemy ? Whats the point ?

True, but the question is, how far away do you want to be?

You have the range of 1.5x the aggro bubble (longbow), to interupt a 2 second skill, to get it off you either a) need to move back more, or b) hope the ranger will allow you to put a wall between you and him/her.

If it's a) that you need to fall back more, and if its just a 1 on 1 duel, then it puts it in favour for the ranger to run around with Natrual Stride and kite untill it wears out. I understand it isnt as conveniant, but the Ranger (if played right) would win. However in the real world of GvG, neither Rangers or Melandru's Dervishes have been popular, in my time zone, its all Euro Spike, mainly because it is the best build running at the moment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Random W/Mo From RA

ZOFG N00B RUNNER COME BACK N00B!!11111 YOU RUNS AWAY ITS CHEAP BUG IN THE GAME!1111 F%&##ING NOOB!111 BODYBLOCKING IS A GLITCH!111 REPORTED REPORTED REPORTED!11 AHAHAHAAA N00B!11

Thanks,
Program~

Earendil · Dec 15, 2006, 02:15 PM // 14:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Program Ftw

True, but the question is, how far away do you want to be?

You have the range of 1.5x the aggro bubble (longbow), to interupt a 2 second skill, to get it off you either a) need to move back more, or b) hope the ranger will allow you to put a wall between you and him/her.

If it's a) that you need to fall back more, and its just a 1 on 1 duel, then it puts it in favour for the ranger to run around with Natrual Stride and kite untill it wears out. I understand it isnt as conveniant, but the Ranger (if played right) would win. However in the real world of GvG, neither Rangers or Melandru's Dervishes have been popular, in my time zone, its all Euro Spike, mainly because it is the best build running at the moment.

Program~

You're seeing it from the perspective of a 1 vs 1 battle. A flagger might just want to run the flag after all, reliably trading flags with no death till the main battle will settle on a winner.

A lot of the 1 vs 1 is player skill. If I find I can't win my fight against a R/Mo, being it buildwise or because he kites godly and interrupts 3/4 sec skills with a long bow, then I'll adapt by just trading flags till the main battle clears things. I don't think a Cripshot can kill a Melandru Dervish when that one doesn't want to fight but just run to the flagstand and back - his only option is to trade flags too, and so, there will be no flagstand advantage, negating one good players skill advantage.

If you run 15 mysticism Melandru lasts 75 secs - at 12 it lasts 60. What I usually do is set it up 2-3 aggro bubbles from the stand or enemy runner. No interrupt possible and you still have a 30-40 sec window to cap and test your 1vs1 potential against the enemy runner. If it fails - well tough luck ... you still have about 15 secs to safely run back to base and take the next flag. Due to the nature of the morale boosts (2 minutes) you will never be out of avatar at the flag.

Drewfense · Dec 15, 2006, 05:21 PM // 17:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wasteland Squidget

OUT ran one against us the other week. It's still a pretty strong skirmish template, actually. With everyone and their brother carrying Mending Touch to counter conditions, hex snares are some of the only things you can reliably stick on people in skirmish.

Yes, the crip anguish fades in and out of popularity because long duration hex snares own. The problem is by itself, an illusion mes (crip anguish, ineptitude, et cetera) can not kill. Mesmers do not have good skill interrupts (sig disruption, cry) so they have issues overcoming a troll or heal sig. Furthermore, they don't do much other than the snare. If you can likewise snare the mesmer, they die.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Program Ftw

Also, it is no help to your team, great a +200hp plant on steroids is running around!

LOL! I have to agree with program though. They will initially cast it in the frontline. Early on, you will get a couple interrupts and buy a minute or two. He will then have to start dropping far far back. The dervish takes himself out of the game to recast. This relieves pressure from the monks and the ranger can still overextend to interrupt since there is one less melee character to punish him.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Etrik

Even if Cripshots own - they can't play in the WF season. *sniff*

R/D Grenths Grasp