Curse

Skye Marin · Jan 15, 2007, 03:58 AM // 03:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Randomway Ftw

Creative offensive builds, lol. You do know what that means right, Grenth trains, c+spaceing, and sf button mashing. That's what kill count encourages, it does not encourage balanced builds. Just because you cannot hold halls with the above builds does not mean it should be that way.

That's why there are skill balances.

A balanced build means a build that is able to directly take into account what it will most likely comes across in the metagame. For example, a balanced build now would have less hex-removing ability (because hexes aren't used often) and substitute it for anti-spirit or anti-burning ability. I found I encountered a fair amount of melee (as you said, Grenth Trains) so I throw Ward against Melee into the build to help even things out. A skilled team with a solid anti-metagame balanced build will, and should, win.

Quote:

No one forces you to wait till the last 2 minutes to attack in halls if you complain about this you have only yourself to blame, just time it so you deliver the killing blow after 2 mins.

The current victory condition for Halls is "Kill the other Ghostlys, and have your Ghostly cap the middle". If you jump into the fight right at the begining, you gain nothing. There should be a very strong incentive to strike first, hard and fast. The final map should be an intense full-scale battle that is a true test of skill for each team, and their ability to cope with change.

Adding environmental effects will go a long way to accomplish this. Having additional shrines that give random debuffs the other team will test their ability, not just the builds they use. It is important that these debuffs are all offensive in nature.

Some example effects:
-all skills have 2 second extra recharge
-all non-spell skills have twice the activation time
-using a skill causes damage equal to 4 times the energy cost
-when taking physical/elemental damage, you take 5 more
-when being hit with an attack skill, you have X% chance of getting a random condition
-when being the target of a hex, you lose 3 energy
-effects of healing is reduced by 20%
-enchants end 25% sooner

The idea here is, if the other team can still beat the first team with a few of these debuffs on them, they deserve to win. Note, I said beat, not survive.

Randomway Ftw · Jan 15, 2007, 04:21 AM // 04:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skye Marin

That's why there are skill balances.

A balanced build means a build that is able to directly take into account what it will most likely comes across in the metagame. For example, a balanced build now would have less hex-removing ability (because hexes aren't used often) and substitute it for anti-spirit or anti-burning ability. I found I encountered a fair amount of melee (as you said, Grenth Trains) so I throw Ward against Melee into the build to help even things out. A skilled team with a solid anti-metagame balanced build will, and should, win.

The current victory condition for Halls is "Kill the other Ghostlys, and have your Ghostly cap the middle". If you jump into the fight right at the begining, you gain nothing. There should be a very strong incentive to strike first, hard and fast. The final map should be an intense full-scale battle that is a true test of skill for each team, and their ability to cope with change.

Honestly their is no point in a kill count match, The match would just be like annihilation without DP, not different enough for a full mode. Halls as a kill count would be the most retarted thing ever, I just can't see it working.

You know that the holding team takes DP, if you time your kills right you can cap just after 2 mins. Going in early also gives you the benefit of testing the teams defenses and seeing what strategy they intend to use.

The Silver Star · Jan 15, 2007, 09:00 AM // 09:00

Well, the weekend drags closer and i for one am not looking forward to it because, 2 days is not long enough to really test something.

However, Saying that you can only cap after 2 minutes is rediculous. You do gain something by cappying before 2 minutes, the bonus's being getting morale after 2minutes, not having your gohst blocked etc.

(As for holding team taking DP, currently you do not take DP on alter matches)

Randomway Ftw · Jan 15, 2007, 02:04 PM // 14:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Silver Star

Well, the weekend drags closer and i for one am not looking forward to it because, 2 days is not long enough to really test something.

However, Saying that you can only cap after 2 minutes is rediculous. You do gain something by cappying before 2 minutes, the bonus's being getting morale after 2minutes, not having your gohst blocked etc.

(As for holding team taking DP, currently you do not take DP on alter matches)

THe thing is you have a better chance of winning if you are not running a holding build, or are sure you can hold the altar and cap after 2 minutes, because the blue team usualy just resigns, and holding off one team = super easy, its usualy not worth taking the risk of capping before especially since most of the time the holding team will collapse after 2 minutes anyways. If your team wipes, the other will not interupt each other for the entire match as what used to happen in the past.

BTW unless they changed it recently i'm pretty sure you still take DP when you die on altar maps, I have screenshots with DP in them.

The Silver Star · Jan 15, 2007, 02:09 PM // 14:09

Yes i agree but this cant always be done, however on your other comment. However when we held halls (roughly 20 hall wins, on thursday night) 80% of the teams didnt know what to do, me and another team member one spammed "Red kill yellow" other spamemd "Yellow kill red" and guess what? we stood there for 3minutes while they killed each other, this happned on two or 3 occations.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Randomway Ftw

BTW unless they changed it recently i'm pretty sure you still take DP when you die on altar maps, I have screenshots with DP in them.

Its a bug after the last update and has happened many times after updates, most likely be fixed soon (Try it now before they fix it

) You will not take DP/ lose morale when you die on an alter map. (Noticed while sacking for jagged, im sure most people know about it

)

Y O U Lo Se · Jan 15, 2007, 04:11 PM // 16:11

Yesterday in courtyard I opened the morale chart seeing that no1 got dp, so yeah it's still bugged sometimes.

auch · Jan 16, 2007, 09:44 PM // 21:44

i got no dp in broken tower so its still bugging

gordohand · Jan 17, 2007, 12:25 AM // 00:25

/praying for the best...

nightshade_eyes · Jan 17, 2007, 01:00 AM // 01:00

HA testing weekend coming up :P

news is at the login prompt.

Bryant Again · Jan 17, 2007, 01:05 AM // 01:05

Gaile said in the chat log that 8v8 won't be on this weekend.

*Sigh*

Franco Power · Jan 17, 2007, 01:08 AM // 01:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

Gaile said in the chat log that 8v8 won't be on this weekend.

*Sigh*

Well that sucks, how long does it take for them to figure out whats best,
ffs I actually made a pve character cuz I cant stand the stupid jagged bones and spirit spam crap anymore.

Bryant Again · Jan 17, 2007, 01:16 AM // 01:16

I feel as though the only reason it hasn't changed is to keep 8v8 PvP play exclusive.

Other than that...Meh. You've seen the polls. People don't want 6v6.

Franco Power · Jan 17, 2007, 01:34 AM // 01:34

They just can't admit that they made a mistake changing to 6vs6 and don't want to give it to us.

Bryant Again · Jan 17, 2007, 01:44 AM // 01:44

I always forget about that...QFT.

Gimme Money Plzkthx · Jan 17, 2007, 03:15 AM // 03:15

Hmmm, how about we extend it to like a 4 day event? In the 6v6 weekend, a large part of the problem was that a metagame barely had time to develop and people had no clue wtf they were doing. Also, a lot of people will be gone on the weekend (myself among them, I'll be able to get in a few hours of HA max). Seriously, how about monday and/or tuesday, even wednesday? Of course, I'm sure some of monday would be there anyway as these events usually bleed over...

wostl · Jan 17, 2007, 03:25 AM // 03:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gimme Money Plzkthx

Hmmm, how about we extend it to like a 4 day event? In the 6v6 weekend, a large part of the problem was that a metagame barely had time to develop and people had no clue wtf they were doing. Also, a lot of people will be gone on the weekend (myself among them, I'll be able to get in a few hours of HA max). Seriously, how about monday and/or tuesday, even wednesday? Of course, I'm sure some of monday would be there anyway as these events usually bleed over...

QFT

would be nice, being able to test this a little longer this time...

Cass · Jan 17, 2007, 01:48 PM // 13:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by wostl

QFT

would be nice, being able to test this a little longer this time...

I'm sure the changes will be blatant stuff anyway. Like a big catapult in Halls that kills everyone in the central area at 1:30. Then the chest will drop an ecto for every player on the winning team as well, to compensate, and everyone will just *love* the update.

Anyway, two days will be plenty to put a stop to obvious problems, and for the rest the only thing that matters is 8v8 anyway. I just hope there won't be another lengthy delay while they think about whether the catapult should kill everyone, or leave one lucky guy alive.
The weekend is pretty irrelevant without the team size change as it is, please don't drag it out longer. They changed it to 6v6 with the flick of a switch... time to flick it again already.

Liveundead122 · Jan 18, 2007, 07:30 AM // 07:30

I love the way a net is going about heroes ascent changes. for one, the idea of giving us the opportunity to test their ideas and give feedback is awesome. generally i would say arena net is doing a great job at running this game.

as for the changes mentioned, i am happy we are not switching to 8v8. thats what guild battles are for. i am happy with 6v6, seeing as how it makes the builds for heroes ascent unique.

most likely though, whatever changes are made i will still behappy. whatever changes that have previously been instituted have never been unbearable.

God Apprentice · Jan 18, 2007, 08:13 AM // 08:13

Looking forward to seeing the update this weekend, although it will be a short period of time to test new mechanics, perhaps there will be more tests down the line

Julius K Foxglove · Jan 18, 2007, 08:14 AM // 08:14

I can't say I was too upset when they modded Ha to 6v6, sure the smaller teams limited the construction of balanced teams to an extent, but the majority of 8v8 teams were not balanced anyway... personally I've found a lot more variety in Ha since the change.

That said, since NF I basically stopped playing Ha because of heros <-- this was a far greater problem, which Anet thankfully finally addressed.

But the biggest problem with Ha, the problem that has presisted since 8v8 and endured 6v6 is the holding mentality. This is an issue related to victory conditions and map design, not team size, that Anet will hopefully finally address... time will tell I guess.

I can't believe that people keep whinging and whining about team size when it has little to do with what is wrong with Ha.