Curse

Swame Rain · Dec 30, 2006, 12:20 AM // 00:20

wow..i freeking hate it when people start whining about a skill that is too overpowered....just when we have something that can actually benifit certain areas of PvE the PvP'ers start crying a river..omg...just try to counter it and stop complaining.

I'm sure the nerf bat for Searing Flames is comeing to...just a matter of time. I'm just sick of it now...

gasmaskman · Dec 30, 2006, 12:42 AM // 00:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swame Rain

wow..i freeking hate it when people start whining about a skill that is too overpowered....just when we have something that can actually benifit certain areas of PvE the PvP'ers start crying a river..omg...just try to counter it and stop complaining.

I'm sure the nerf bat for Searing Flames is comeing to...just a matter of time. I'm just sick of it now...

There's skill balances for a reason. I'm sick of you PvE'ers coming out and complaining every damn time there's a skill balance. Maybe learn to use other skills?

Thorondor Port · Dec 30, 2006, 02:29 AM // 02:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deleet

This skill is ridiciously overpowered, just compare it to all the similar skills, like empathy, spiteful spirit, backfire...

Note:Empathy and backfire are not elites.

This is like comparing Tiger's Fury to Rampage as one.
people complained about tiger fury "balance" and why rao was never nerfed in the liking. Plz brain on turn.

gasmaskman · Dec 30, 2006, 02:42 AM // 02:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thorondor Port

Note:Empathy and backfire are not elites.

This is like comparing Tiger's Fury to Rampage as one.
people complained about tiger fury "balance" and why rao was never nerfed in the liking. Plz brain on turn.

It's still more powerful than spiteful spirit, the elite.

Mhelnos Smiting Bro · Dec 30, 2006, 03:54 AM // 03:54

No the necros need something nice... Leave SV be... It is an amazing skill.... Why must monks be the most sought after profession in this game? Can u say hex removal?.... i mean really.. leave the skill alone it makes the game better....

MSB

gasmaskman · Dec 30, 2006, 04:46 AM // 04:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mhelnos Smiting Bro

No the necros need something nice... Leave SV be... It is an amazing skill.... Why must monks be the most sought after profession in this game? Can u say hex removal?.... i mean really.. leave the skill alone it makes the game better....

MSB

Asking these questions makes you seem stupid. You seriously can't tell me why monks are the most sought after profession?

yesitsrob · Dec 30, 2006, 04:53 PM // 16:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mhelnos Smiting Bro

No the necros need something nice... Leave SV be... It is an amazing skill.... Why must monks be the most sought after profession in this game? Can u say hex removal?.... i mean really.. leave the skill alone it makes the game better....

MSB

Talking about monks being the most sought after profession makes it seem like you are talking about PVE to be quite honest, which seems to be about need tankz need nukerz need monkz 5/8 for mission.

We're actually in this section here:
Guild Wars Forums - GW Guru > The Hall of Knowledge > Gladiator's Arena > PvP Build Directory > PvP Skill Discussion.

Quote:

Can u say hex removal?

target foe is hexed for 10 seconds, if this hex does not end prematurely target foe dies.
does hex removal make that not over powered?
Extreme i know, but because something might have counters doesn't make it ok all the time.

It's like when people say "diversion counters it".

Carl Butanananowski · Dec 30, 2006, 05:04 PM // 17:04

Yes, I am redundant. Spoil Victor needs a smaller duration and probably a significantly reduced damage (max being around 75).

Why are people only complaining about it now? :/

JR · Dec 30, 2006, 05:15 PM // 17:15

As I explained somewhere else...

Elite Hexes NEED to be very powerful in order to see play. Using an energy management elite like Offering of Blood to power out spammables like Faint/Para etc is far better against teams with heavy removal than relying on getting one important hex to stick. You can spread the smaller hexes around and stack and re-stack them with energy management, whilst your elite hex just gets Diverted or Purged off.

For this reason Spoil really needs to be good, and I would argue that it is fine where it is right now - with maybe a tweak to if they decide to hit Divert Hexes aswell.

Saider maul · Dec 30, 2006, 05:26 PM // 17:26

exactly. those complaining about SV are not willing to adapt to the evolving metagame and there for feel its overpowered.
SS does dmg per attack/cast. SV is conditional as to the target must be below your current health. So SV should be more powerful the SS.

As a SV I dred seeing a Divert hex monk. As a Mage-bomber I hate seeing an RC monk.
Its all about random chance and Spec. we are 10 classes deep now its time to evolve.

My suggestion. Learn to adapt and utilize the skills put in place to counter such builds and when you happen to run into your anti dont cry " Nerf " .

Ensign · Dec 30, 2006, 10:24 PM // 22:24

I don't think they should even think about touching the damage on Spoil Victor. The huge hits are what justify its elite status.

However I think a hit to the duration is most certainly called for, and possibly tweaks to cost and cast time.

Why does every single skill balance discussion have to be cluttered with retards posting 'learn 2 counter!' as if that were somehow a new concept?

Peace,
-CxE

master_of_puppets · Dec 31, 2006, 03:21 AM // 03:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

As I explained somewhere else...

Elite Hexes NEED to be very powerful in order to see play. Using an energy management elite like Offering of Blood to power out spammables like Faint/Para etc is far better against teams with heavy removal than relying on getting one important hex to stick. You can spread the smaller hexes around and stack and re-stack them with energy management, whilst your elite hex just gets Diverted or Purged off.

For this reason Spoil really needs to be good, and I would argue that it is fine where it is right now - with maybe a tweak to if they decide to hit Divert Hexes aswell.

There are also ways to counter hex-removal. The only skills that I can think of that pose huge threats to hexes are elite, for which you can take Signet of Humility. And its not as if every team has hexes or a lot of hex removal. I just dont see a lot of teams taking skills like Divert to GvG, because you risk having a monk having a potentially useless elite for an entire match. You can still spam out cover-hexes like Life Siphon and Parasitic without any e-management on a necro.
This skill isnt ridiculously overpowered but it definitely is overpowered, no doubt about that. Anet buffed it a lil too much. I can see it being very effective at killing a guild lord who would keep getting pwned by it until he's at like 1/6 health. I'd say this needs a small damage nerf and a recharge increase.

JR · Dec 31, 2006, 03:39 AM // 03:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by master_of_puppets

There are also ways to counter hex-removal. The only skills that I can think of that pose huge threats to hexes are elite, for which you can take Signet of Humility. And its not as if every team has hexes or a lot of hex removal. I just dont see a lot of teams taking skills like Divert to GvG, because you risk having a monk having a potentially useless elite for an entire match. You can still spam out cover-hexes like Life Siphon and Parasitic without any e-management on a necro.

We ran Divert all of last season, so did a lot of teams. The simple fact being that it is one skill that can counter Hex builds largely by it's self. Yeah you can take more general Elites that will help you slightly against every team, or you can take one that will give you a massive edge on some. Personally my main concerns last season were spike and hex builds, so we metagamed our monk builds against those. Divert was probably in 60% of the backlines we faced, I'd say.

Signet of Humility? We also ran Web of Disruption purely to interrupt that.

Yes there are counters, and counter counters, and counter counter counters... But you can really think too deeply into that.

Deleet · Dec 31, 2006, 04:11 AM // 04:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thorondor Port

Note:Empathy and backfire are not elites.

This is like comparing Tiger's Fury to Rampage as one.
people complained about tiger fury "balance" and why rao was never nerfed in the liking. Plz brain on turn.

Backfire and Empathy are specific counters, Spoil Victor isn't. It's a generel counter.

suiraCLAW · Dec 31, 2006, 08:47 AM // 08:47

Quote:

Backfire and Empathy are specific counters, Spoil Victor isn't. It's a generel counter.

Exactly, that's why Spoil Victor is an elite skill...

Patrograd · Dec 31, 2006, 10:39 AM // 10:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

Signet of Humility? We also ran Web of Disruption purely to interrupt that.

.

[/ot]

The things I found when playing Signet of Humility

1) The 2 second cast makes it quite difficult to get off, especially if you have to push up to get it off, as you will against a decent divert monk

2) Once the other team see you have humility they will spike you pretty much constantly, or as happened several times, camp a hammer warrior on your face.

In practise, I think you need 2 sig humilities in a hex build, along with 2 mantra inscriptions, just to take care of one divert hexes. makes the whole thing kind of unweildy imo

Patrick Smit · Dec 31, 2006, 11:07 AM // 11:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

It was during the first 2 minutes of a GvG. No one had died yet and his life did not drop from taking dmg any different than a 550 life total.

I have talked to othere people and they have had the same problem. In some cases being below 100 hp attacking a full life target and SV kills them.

It doesn't happen all the time but I've seen it on more than a few occasions.

Take a screenshot and send it to Anet. I don't think its happening, but having yopur damagemonitor on. with the healthbar of the target could provide some information, furthermore u should confirm the target is not a 55/105 build. Thus show that the damage is not limited to 5 or 10, with something that should hit for much more.

I think its an ok spell, and nerf is not yet neccesary as they dont use it in all gvg battles. I've seen it being used by "die kaputte truppe" which had a brilliant heavy hex build supported by spits, all opponents, including high ranking ones, retreated just straight to the guild lord to die, or ran to the guild lord of DKT for a gank. DKT won in most cases. Except for 1 against forlorn savior. Thats the punishment if u lack dehex possibilities. They were a pressure build, not a spike build. The damage done by SV is done by yourself, not by your enemy. If u have porblems to stop after 1.33 seconds even after 2-2.66 seconds with attacking or spellcasting then i would say that your reaction is a bit slow.

Patccmoi · Dec 31, 2006, 05:29 PM // 17:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick Smit

If u have porblems to stop after 1.33 seconds even after 2-2.66 seconds with attacking or spellcasting then i would say that your reaction is a bit slow.

Well, that's fine for something like Ineptitude that lasts for a short time, but SV lasts for 35+s It's a HUUUGE duration, which is the main problem atm really. You can't just wait for 40s because of a 10s recharge hex.

I agree that if the stats (mix of 2-3 from duration/cost/recharge) get changed the damage could stay as high as it is now. But right now it's hard to interrupt unless you're really camping the guy and he doesn't luckily get a FC, and the duration/recharge mix allows for 1 Nec to have it on 4 people at once.

Yes, Divert exists but honestly i think Divert is a flaw personally. Divert being there means that any hex must be insanely powerful to be worth a slot, and basically far too powerful when Divert isn't there. Lots of Monks in TA all pack Divert now cause it's near impossible to fight SV without. In GvG last season we had Divert every game because if you don't have it and end up against something like SV-Reaper's-Migraine you're gonna cry. Cover hexes are nearly meaningless. The thing is, Divert is a 1 skill counter to hex builds. Yes, hex builds usually pack SoH but as other said SoH isn't a skill you need a specific counter for. Any KD, interrupt, etc. on this 2s cast on a caster going after a monk in your backline and you can clean 2 people with this alone. I really think a hex removal with 5s recharge that removes 3 hexes AND heal AND remove conditions limits hex builds too much. Expel Hexes was already there and it was very good vs hexes but had longer cooldown and 2 hexes max. I realize Divert is in Prot and not attributeless, but for a monk that doesn't matter much.

Hex builds can be viable atm but that's because hexes like SV exist, but those hexes are problematic anywhere else than GvG, and while i agree that GvG is the center of skill balance in general it doesn't mean skills should be broken elsewhere.

Basically, things hold atm because you have 2-3 overpowered hexes with 1 overpowered hex removal. I'd rather see all of these slightly toned down than seeing them stay overpowered because the counter exists. Elite hexes still need to be very powerful, but they shouldn't instantly say 'you lose' if you can't manage to remove them either. And i kinda feel that SV is close to that, especially out of GvG (SV Necro in arenas when SV can't be removed pretty much wins a game alone. And with 1 monk if you don't carry Divert you can't really remove it).

master_of_puppets · Dec 31, 2006, 06:21 PM // 18:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patccmoi

Basically, things hold atm because you have 2-3 overpowered hexes with 1 overpowered hex removal. I'd rather see all of these slightly toned down than seeing them stay overpowered because the counter exists. Elite hexes still need to be very powerful, but they shouldn't instantly say 'you lose' if you can't manage to remove them either. And i kinda feel that SV is close to that, especially out of GvG (SV Necro in arenas when SV can't be removed pretty much wins a game alone. And with 1 monk if you don't carry Divert you can't really remove it).

QFT. Some overpowered hexes and an overpowered hex-removal elite have turned the game even mroe into rock-paper-scissors cuz if u dont bring it u might get pwned by a heavy-hex team and if you do, you'll get pwned by a team with no hexes cuz ur monk has a useless elite on his bar. The solution is to nerf all there over-used hexes such as SV and Reapers Mark and nerf Divert Hexes as well.

Thomas.knbk · Dec 31, 2006, 06:29 PM // 18:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by master_of_puppets

QFT. Some overpowered hexes and an overpowered hex-removal elite have turned the game even mroe into rock-paper-scissors cuz if u dont bring it u might get pwned by a heavy-hex team and if you do, you'll get pwned by a team with no hexes cuz ur monk has a useless elite on his bar. The solution is to nerf all there over-used hexes such as SV and Reapers Mark and nerf Divert Hexes as well.

Exept having one useless elite doesn't mean you get pwned.