Curse

Patrick Smit · Jan 28, 2007, 04:21 PM // 16:21

Prediction is still gambling, its not sure your target is gonna use that skill. However i do not want to stray from the discussion too much. The question here by the OP is how he can deal with pressure from the opposing team, rangers would be able to deal with some hex pressure using interupts, provided that they remain free from conditions and attack hate hexes. They can even produce "pressure" by shutting down a nasty character that foils your build.

The RT can deal efficiently with condition pressure and mitigates quite some damage. I personally think they perform better then a ranger against a offensive gank. There is only one way to find out. Play the builds with either character, and see what performs best, provided u put the most suitable players for each at that spot. Most fair and will prove what works best for the OP. We don't need to discuss what is the best profession again. I don't believe there is one, some excel where others stumble, and vice versa.

Yue · Jan 28, 2007, 06:04 PM // 18:04

Good rangers can catch .75s spells with >80% success in close proximity barring lag. Competent rangers can catch 1s skills 99% of the time within half aggro circle.

A good mesmer interrupter can catch .75 skills with 99% success.

The argument wasn't that a ranger can solo a gank team, though that does happen. The argument is that with npc cover, a ranger can hold off any solo ganker. It's not always necessary to send healers. You can send back some offense to wipe the gank team. Most teams that send back healers just either get wiped at the stand or get their healers wiped defending the base when a split gets reset.

It also seems you have never met the Ghostly Hero.

Patrick Smit · Jan 28, 2007, 07:25 PM // 19:25

I find it very difficult to see your intentions with that last statement, maybe you should elaborate.

A vengefull weapon/weapon of remedy rt is not pure heal, he's dealing damage due the fact that other people attack, usually they hurt themselves more then what they dish out. This makes the sensible player stop to attack, or change focus to the rt (facing again the same problem). But its up to OP to test what is working for him, our discussion here is senseless.

Added: the percentages you mention are unsupported by any arguments, and are in disagreement with the maths. If you want me to believe that you may better back it up with some sort of reliable topic on it. Especially the 80% succes rate of rangers interupting an 0.75s second skill i find hard to believe (i have played interupt rangers as well), maybe feasible if u just focus on that one thing, but if you have to multitask (watch the radar, communicate with others and move around) it is quite unbelievable.

Stealth Rider · Jan 29, 2007, 01:08 AM // 01:08

Quote:

Especially the 80% succes rate of rangers interupting an 0.75s second skill i find hard to believe (i have played interupt rangers as well), maybe feasible if u just focus on that one thing, but if you have to multitask (watch the radar, communicate with others and move around) it is quite unbelievable.

Watch observer mode, find a good Ranger splitting, see how many times Blinds get through. If its more than 25% of the time that ranger isnt too great.

There is no equation for experience.

Watch AI play sometime. If I (Stealth Rage Pves) am on Cripshot, watch me split and let me know how many times i let a BFlash/Surge or a Mend Touch get by. And im not an amazing ranger.

Yue · Jan 29, 2007, 01:36 AM // 01:36

For the record, it's math, not maths.

And as Stealth said, there is no equation for experience.

As for the Ghostly Hero, if you think NPC's can't interrupt for crap, try using a skill when the Ghosty Hero is on you.

Patrick Smit · Jan 29, 2007, 04:25 AM // 04:25

Im gonna count for fun maybe,a nd will reply if i found some high level guys in observe mod, that would give some real data. Furthernmore on AI interuption. They don't have reaction time, and are only dependent on halve the ping time. as ping is round trip as far as i know. They just need to know when u fire a skill, and the rest is resolved on the server. Thats why they are awsome. Furthermore they can watch all enemies actions without having to tab through. You still wonder why AI is such a greast interupter? You cannot compare humans to AI, except for some of that "fast" learning by studying behavior that the AI is unable to, (cause AI in the game is actually not AI but scripting).

B.T.W. on my spelling maths is plural of math, and does excist according oxfords dictionary, even so is used so by many a site that will not likely make spelling mistakes ( http://www.bbc.co.uk/scotland/educat...ks/maths.shtml) Lets not try to improve me on what is the topic of discussion here, its a typical "debate" strategy where you would like to show superiority by (trying) to prove you are right on a point that isn't even remotely important in the discussion. Lets return to the discussion, what is a suitable character in that role the OP is interested in, and not what is better a ranger, or a rit.

Stealth Rider · Jan 29, 2007, 05:04 AM // 05:04

When i said AI, i meant Apathy, Inc [AI]... -_-

Thom Bangalter · Jan 29, 2007, 05:38 AM // 05:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stealth Rider

Watch observer mode, find a good Ranger splitting, see how many times Blinds get through. If its more than 25% of the time that ranger isnt too great.

There is no equation for experience.

Watch AI play sometime. If I (Stealth Rage Pves) am on Cripshot, watch me split and let me know how many times i let a BFlash/Surge or a Mend Touch get by. And im not an amazing ranger.

That's because you're playing crappy eles that precast the spell outside of the aggro circle, auto-run to the target, and take a d-shot to the face. Who cares though? mending touch is rediculous.

Barbie goes guru · Jan 29, 2007, 03:19 PM // 15:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thom Bangalter

That's because you're playing crappy eles that precast the spell outside of the aggro circle, auto-run to the target, and take a d-shot to the face. Who cares though? mending touch is rediculous.

Very True. I've played against eles that know how to use bflash properly, including Thom. Its not as simple as wait, count to four, use d-shot. And if they always stay in range to cast you cannot accurately predict the next bflash.

As for rangers being able to interrupt .75 sec cast times 80%>, I'd disagree. Sure, if you stay on that 1 character its doable, but then to shut you down all that character needs to do is sit there, and you arent spreading poison or interrupting. If you are constantly looking around, spreading poison the chances of getting a randomly cast .75 sec skill is greatly reduced.

Stealth Rider · Jan 30, 2007, 01:09 AM // 01:09

Quote:

That's because you're playing crappy eles that precast the spell outside of the aggro circle, auto-run to the target, and take a d-shot to the face. Who cares though? mending touch is rediculous.

Hutto isnt a crappy ele -_-.

then again....heh

But seriously, ive played against good eles, and maybe during the first one or two skirmishes i'd miss BFlashes, but once i understand how they play it isnt hard to stop them virtually every time. Not to mention, even good players make mistakes when under pressure.

Quote:

As for rangers being able to interrupt .75 sec cast times 80%>, I'd disagree. Sure, if you stay on that 1 character its doable, but then to shut you down all that character needs to do is sit there, and you arent spreading poison or interrupting. If you are constantly looking around, spreading poison the chances of getting a randomly cast .75 sec skill is greatly reduced.

This is talking about in a split...

Patrick Smit · Jan 30, 2007, 08:18 AM // 08:18

It would not be very good elementalists, as they do not adjust their behavior to the interuptor, ie make fake moves, cast, cancel, cast. Stop wanting to "win" this argument. The pros and cons of the different classes have been summed up. The OP can now choose what to implement in his build, we are not interested in the size of your I-phallus.

dgb · Jan 30, 2007, 09:57 AM // 09:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yue

For the record, it's math, not maths.

Depends where in the world you are...

ANyway, distracting shot launches far faster than 0.5s. Get a high fps recorder and watch it - I think it's a hangup from the old days when you used to be able to chain them, the 0.5 stopped your from just mashing them and having four arrows in the air at once - it processes much faster than that now.

Stealth Rider · Jan 30, 2007, 01:43 PM // 13:43

Quote:

It would not be very good elementalists, as they do not adjust their behavior to the interuptor, ie make fake moves, cast, cancel, cast. Stop wanting to "win" this argument. The pros and cons of the different classes have been summed up. The OP can now choose what to implement in his build, we are not interested in the size of your I-phallus.

What arguement? Whose e-peen? I mentioned [AI] because frankly, i dont see [Te] or [QQ] running a Cripshot consistantly in their builds, while my guild does. Frankly, its a lot easier than saying, "Look through observer mode, going through every match till you find a decent cripshot/split ranger, and watch him play." But that works just as well.

Also, i was trying to show that arrow flight time/cast time has almost nothing to do with how effectively a good ranger can interrupt. Every single player in this game has certain habits they get themselves into, and though they may try to "fake out" Rangers, eventually the Ranger will catch on (hopefully sooner rather than later) and still catch the important skills.

sage tank · Jan 30, 2007, 03:11 PM // 15:11

imo ranger interrupt is not that reliable, half second activation is just not good enough to hit bsurge or alot of the 1 second cast spell unless your next to the guy. Maybe this is why ranger interrupt is much more spamable, you use it trying to predict whether your enemy is about to cast a spell. It is like what i do with monk, I hit them with burning arrow, and screaming shot, knowing that will take him down to around 50% hp i spam distracting show and savage shot, it will usually hit ZB. I admit that I'm not a good interrupter, but that is what I usually do because even with a recurved bow it is next to impossible to interrupt one second cast spell.

Yue · Jan 30, 2007, 04:01 PM // 16:01

Stealth: QQ and Te aren't running CS rangers anymore, but they are both running Burning Arrow gankers. Since that build also incorporates 2 interrupts, the points you make are valid in both cases.

As I'm sure Thom would agree, actually playing against a good interrupter is alot different of a feeling than against a typical ranger. The interrupts are as frequent, but it won't seem as if the ranger's spamming interrupts.

In regards to Barbie's comment about losing efficiency while interrupting 3/4s skills, that's only if the ranger is simply camping a target. Not only is that ineffective, it's also very stupid. Since alot of people seem to have the idea that you can't spread poison and interrupt desired skills at the same time, I'm going to go through an explanation of how you can.

A fairly simple method is using c+space tabbing with shift key selection. What this is is to target your closest enemy, use a normal attack, then tab and hit the next target. Use shift+click to select the target you want to camp, and every time you cycle through and tab+space targets to spread poison, shift+click so that after you spread conditions your cursor goes back on the target you want. Not only does this prevent you from giving up condition pressure, it also makes it almost impossible for the other side to determine who you're camping. It'll simply look like you're attacking random targets and spreading degen. Positioning is extremely important for this to work, and you generally want to be within 2/3 aggro circle to maintain interrupt integrity. In addition, you can also interrupt longer skills like diverison without camping. It'll be pretty obvious since that's currently really the only skill on a mesmer bar that actually takes time to cast, and when they do, a purple sign pops up on their head. shift+Click, dshot/savage. This method is just one example of how to interrupt your desired target while additionally maximizing your normal pressure. "Camping" doesn't always mean you have to sit in front of your target like an idiot and waiting for him to use something right in front of your face. Any competent player on the team will either fake you out or reposition themselves.

On a final note, if you can't reflexively interrupt a 1 second cast spell with a recurve bow within 2/3 aggro circle, you shouldn't be playing a ranger. Pretty simple.

Nadine · Jan 30, 2007, 10:08 PM // 22:08

Hmmm... I have allways thought that ranger has 2 fast recharging interrupts which doesnt cost anything practically. U can guess spells with them. But when u are playing a mesmer with one interrupt (power drain or leak) u cant just go crazy and guess spells with them.

But this is only for interrupting, there is a lot difference in these 2 classes outside of interrupting.