Curse

master_of_puppets · Jan 02, 2007, 04:35 AM // 04:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riotgear

Increasing it to 10 would simply kill the skill. Me/E wouldn't run it at all, ele primaries would just go back to prodigy/flash.

GOOD. This skill deserves to die, it should never have been made in the first place. And its use should be limited to ele primaries only.

HolyHawk · Jan 02, 2007, 07:39 AM // 07:39

I'm not quite sure on the skill, but I do think there should be no conditional dmg or blind. Five energy is good for other secondaries yes, and I don't quite see a point in blaming the skill because other classes use it. I do see many elementalists using it as well.

I was watching some random game in observer the other day, a melee pressure team (2 dervishes, 1 war, 1 ranger and 1 utility, emo or mesmer, I don't remember the last) vs euroway with a me/e. First team won, with a few deaths, simply because blind lowered a bit of their pressure, but couldn't stop it. Blinding a euroway warrior is better because you shut down the spike; the other melee pressure build just wouldn't dance for 20 seconds waiting for a spike, they just dealt with the blind; if I recall, 1 was melandru avatar, so nothing happened to him anyways, the grenth avatar was /rt, and the warrior and ranger had mending touch.

Consider that melee characters should take in mind that they are asking to be crippled or blinded; if they can't prepare themselves, they should make sure someone on the team can cover them. As for melee spikes, blame the team for not keeping the warriors clean for the spike. They don't even need adrenaline that desperately.

My opinion is just to remove area blind because it could really stop a melee train if enchanted, and lower the dmg perhaps, to what shock arrows does. I don't think the skill is completely broken.

As an additional coment concerning me/e, I play mesmer mostly. It's not rare now with NF, being domination I would be me/e, mainly because of glyph of lesser energy, and then because factions and nf offered so many crappy elites that mesmers can really choose their elite spot in other classes. Domination might be broken just because of spiritual pain, which should not take an elite spot, but is better than many of them. Buffing/Balancing some of the mesmer elites would stop the frequency of the b.surge mesmers, as they would want to use their elite spot with something else. The "problem" would be limited to elementalists possibly. Just my opinion, don't hate me ><

Wasteland Squidget · Jan 02, 2007, 08:51 AM // 08:51

I don't see why Blinding Surge necessarily needs to be viable only on primary eles. If the mesmer's spike skills are nerfed (as they hopefully will be), I'd much rather see a defense + shutdown template than a defense + spike template. The reason so many teams run Me/E over E/x is because the Me/E template can contribute offense (in both pressure and spike form), defense, and skirmish power all ine one package. Ele primaries are fine in defense and skirmish, but when you're trying to make a push the only thing they have going for them is Gale spam, which catches up to you quickly.

B-surge Me/Es balanced template that the game needs, though in its current form it's obviously quite unbalanced. The only reason teams run E/x is if they really need the secondary (usually for Shadow of Haste/Feigned Neutrality.) I'd much rather see a template that can apply offensive pressure and shutdown + defense than a template that can only blind warriors and spike people down.

Somehow limiting the skill to ele primaries would be a nerf, but only because they're forced to use the air line and everything in the air line sucks except for Gale. "The rest of the line sucks so this skill can be overpowered" is never a good balance argument, and if the air line were ever given strong non-elites E/xs with B-surge would be just as overpowered as Me/Es are now.

There are many skills in this game that are stronger when the class is used as a secondary for something else. Dark Escape/Return, Shield Bash, and Mending Touch to name a few. I don't see why Blinding Surge needs to stay off that list, if the result is a Blinding Surge template that can only play defensively and just promotes more 321spike builds.

red orc · Jan 02, 2007, 03:02 PM // 15:02

you guys must be joking, BS blinds you for 9 sec or so, did you see how fast a sin or a warrior drops that ele without it ? much less.
It is not over powerfull, you just have to think before you spike, cause the other team may read you and pre blind.
just a note: i do play warrior and not ele in gvg

taxed · Jan 02, 2007, 03:47 PM // 15:47

Just add a failure condition to the skill. Make breakpoints at 4, 6, 8 and 10, 10 = always works, 4=75% chance to fail.

Seamus Finn · Jan 02, 2007, 10:05 PM // 22:05

Eh, I would just go for a higher recharge. Take some of the spam out of the skill. Maybe 6 is ok, maybe 8. 10 energy takes it off a lot of people's bars(Mes have lots of 10-15 energy skill on their bar already and insp sucks). If the skill got nerfed to uselessness I wouldn't care all that much though...

LoyalSoldier · Jan 03, 2007, 05:11 AM // 05:11

The main problem is to balance this out with the non-elite versions. If you nerf this too much it makes it useless because someone can just use blinding flash without wasting an elite.

The damage is minor and if it wasn't for the blind it wouldn't be used.

Former Ruling · Jan 03, 2007, 04:42 PM // 16:42

Basically any real nerf to the skill is going to completely erase its existence from GvG since its only being used because it can place the mass Blinding on a stand character.

So they can basically do anything they want to it :\

bhavv · Jan 04, 2007, 02:32 AM // 02:32

I dont see a problem with blinding surge at all. If there going to nerf this they may as well get rid of blind from the game altogether.

And when I play ether prodigy + blinding flash, I can spam it forever, and exhaustion really isnt a problem since its usually worn off after 20 seconds.

Just remove the AoE blind. There isnt any need for it and its perfectly spammable on 2-3 targets without the AoE.

Icreasing the energy cost and/or recharge will kill the skill completely and mean that its no longer as good as blinding flash.

Also: Mend ailment/condition, Mending touch, plague touch....

*Cough* Sight beyong sight (lasts 8 seconds on 0 spawning).

Thomas.knbk · Jan 04, 2007, 02:23 PM // 14:23

Bhav, don't be a tard. This skill is way stronger than Bflash. Did you ever see Bflash on a mesmer?
Increasing energy won't kill it. AoE blind for 10E is still extremely good.
Sure, you can remove blind, but try to keep up with the spamming. Someone is going to run out ef energy here, and it's not the mesmer.
Sight Beyond Sight isn't a viable counter. You can't force every warrior to take rt secondary, and 8/20 seconds is not enough.

Patrograd · Jan 04, 2007, 02:36 PM // 14:36

Blind is just such a strong condition for countering pressure. if you are spiking, even adrenal spiking every 20 seconds with eurospike, you can easily make sure that your warriors are clean for the 1-2 seconds of spike time, and extinguish away the blind between spikes, but if you are trying to run melee pressure then blinding surge just makes the whole thing very difficult, and dual blinding surge kills it completely, assuming a decent player on the blinder.

Blind is such a strong condition that it should require some skill to put on. Blindbot used to be a very highly specialised role, the timing of the blind was everything, now it doesnt matter if you get the timing wrong, you can just press the button again. it is this that makes the skill overpowered

Strong effect+minimal skill to apply that effect=overpowered

Thom Bangalter · Jan 04, 2007, 04:15 PM // 16:15

What patro said. A good blinder can mitigate more damage in an adrenospike than a monk can.

Blinding surge makes the whole thing mindless, and pink has been running two melandru dervishes simply because of this one skill.

Shendaar · Jan 04, 2007, 04:26 PM // 16:26

I hate skills like that. 5e + some damage to shutdown at least one player completely. Why don't Anet add a 5e, spammable and unconditional skill that does AoE daze while they are at it? Fair game for everyone.

Shuuda · Jan 04, 2007, 04:28 PM // 16:28

I don't care how it gets balanced, as long as it can still be used well with the A/E Signet spiker. So my Vote goes for losing the AoE.

ShindeVamp · Jan 12, 2007, 09:50 AM // 09:50

Remember that this skill is an ELITE skill. If you are going to nerf the energy and blind duration and damage then just keep using blinding flash... so you can put a new elite... I agree that blinding surge is overpowered but there are counters.. alot of them... Remedy Signet (paragon), Mending Touch (monk), Antidote Signet (ranger), Signet of Malice (assassin). Just keep in mind that it's called an ELITE skill for some reason, nerf it but don't throw it away.

Sinful Doom · Jan 12, 2007, 10:43 AM // 10:43

Eh... They fragged elites before. Ever heard of Ether Renewal? It was very popular before its nerf. I just as soon have them nuke this elite from the game. And While they are at it, get rid of the -20% blind runes so IMO blind in this game will be balanced again. I still havent figured out which created which. Bsurge created Blind Runes or Blind runes created Bsurge or did mending touch create Bsurge... AHHHHH...

Saphatorael · Jan 12, 2007, 01:22 PM // 13:22

What about adding an energy loss if the blind is in AoE? Much like Star Burst, Healing Burst etc.

-5e, that is... it would nicely 'nerf' the skill, yet remain viable.

Bastian · Jan 12, 2007, 01:45 PM // 13:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by red orc

There are so many counters to it right now:
signet of malice, dismiss conditions, extinguish, 3* mending, restore conditions, purge conditions, draw conditions, purge signet, ...

Don't forget RC (which a lot of people run) - and of course my personal favorite - plague touch. Its a shame that people think that they have some right to be able to do high damage constantly with a melee character. Blind is a great counter to that - especially in a game that has been developed around balance. Keep in mind as well that melee pressure is very high in most forms of PvP - this is a very justifiable elite to bring as a counter to that pressure. I think a slight nerf may be necessary because it is very spammable, however, it is absolutely prefect for countering any kind spike invloving melee characters.

Patccmoi · Jan 12, 2007, 07:17 PM // 19:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saphatorael

What about adding an energy loss if the blind is in AoE? Much like Star Burst, Healing Burst etc.

-5e, that is... it would nicely 'nerf' the skill, yet remain viable.

If they did that and raised recharge to ~6s, i'd actually be fine with it. -5E ends up stacking pretty fast on something you spam, but it would remain a nice skirmish skill, just slightly more balanced at 6s recharge than 4s.

That's honestly the option i like the most up to now. Keeps the current uses of the skill possible but not as insanely spammable and you have to actually pay for AoE blind.

leguma · Jan 26, 2007, 06:27 PM // 18:27

I'm not sure that they need to hit the recharge at all, however, they could make the skill a bit more interesting to use... consider:

Target foe is struck by Lightning Surge. If tharget foe is already blind when this skill is cast, it is struck for 5...41 lightning damage. If tharget foe was not blinded he becomes blind for 3...9 seconds. If that foe was enchanted, all adjacent enchanted foes are also blinded. This Spell has 25% armor penetration.

When you have to actually wait out the blind before you can reapply it, it becomes a lot les mindless and actually requires propper timing to be used to its full extent. The damage can either be like in the example above, or it can be always. Similarly, the AoE effct can be either dependant on each target being enchanted, or subjected to the 5 energy loss if more than one foe was effected. Either way, all that needs to be done is have the blind apply only if the target was not already blinded.