Curse

jai311 · Feb 07, 2007, 06:14 AM // 06:14

Hey Guys im completly new to gvg balance and i was wondering if you people could please help me out by either posting or giving links to good top ranked gvg builds that my guild could get a head start with .

Please Post your builds or comments below.

I am not looking for any para spike or spike builds. i just wanted the builds that top 50-10 guilds use now days.

Thanks a lot for your time in posting and trying to get us a head start

-.- · Feb 07, 2007, 06:25 AM // 06:25

Try observing.

Thom · Feb 07, 2007, 06:39 AM // 06:39

Pencil, paper, observer mode.

Remember that it is how you use the skills as well as which skills you use.

Bankai · Feb 07, 2007, 08:27 AM // 08:27

B.

I need more characters.

Yue · Feb 07, 2007, 08:28 AM // 08:28

Two monks, 2 warriors, a ranger, an ele, a mesmer, and another class is a pretty typical balanced build you can start with.

*lemming* · Feb 07, 2007, 08:59 AM // 08:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yue

Two monks, 2 warriors, a ranger, an ele, a mesmer, and another class is a pretty typical balanced build you can start with.

Read: Watch [FFs] on obs mode. They're pretty good at balanced.

Div · Feb 07, 2007, 09:27 AM // 09:27

Two monks is a must in balanced, as well as 2 melee classes (warrior or dervish usually). The flagrunner can either be ele, monk, cripshot, or mesmer. The remaining 3 should be good support classes that can provide defense and offensive pressure as well as being able to respond to ganks (something like a mesmer, a necro, and an ele). A lot of the midline is up to personal preference and basically determine the nature of the build, as the first 5 mentioned are pretty common in all balanced.

mike1480 · Feb 07, 2007, 04:20 PM // 16:20

You're going to find that the key to winning is less about your build and more about your skill as a guild, your communication, your tactics, your knowledge of gvg mechanics, etc.

However, most balanced builds are going to follow similar design. IE: 2 melee class (for pressure), 3 utility (for spike/pressure, damage mit), 2 monks (one infuse), 1 flag runner w/Heal Party or LoD spam

Phelann · Feb 07, 2007, 06:24 PM // 18:24

I have an hour until my next class so I'm bored and I'm going to actually be as informative as possible. Apologies if this is too much information.

Of the guilds currently towards the top of the ladder, those that are pretty much constantly running balanced like you describe:

Virtual Dragons
Dei Victorae
Team Flamingo
Mostly Harmless

Thats not to say others aren't running balanced builds (eF, EW, pnh all do and I'm sure there are others I'm missing) but all the other guilds run much more varied setups and if you are new to gvg it might not be as obvious what constitutes balance atm and what doesn't.

Individually, here is what each of them run. I'm going to bold the characters that everyone has in common, then at the end give a more general framework. Feel free to just skip over these individual builds if you don't care for this much information, I'm just trying to give you at least 4 proven, reliable options before I give a general framework of how they are all used.

vD:
Burning Arrow R/Mo splits
Split Warrior (I think YAA)
Melandrus Dervish
Me/E esurge, eburn, shatter enchantment, glyph of lesser energy, blackout, gale, diversion, rez signet
E/Mo Bsurge, Lightning Orb, Gale, Ward Against Foes, Glyph Sac, Hard Rez, some other stuff.
Monk LoD
Some other monk
E/Mo Ice runner (I'm not sure if its water trident or ether prodigy, but its ice and has heal party)

dV:
Burning Arrow R/Mo splits
Split Warrior (I think Bullscharge)
Hammer Warrior
Mantra of Recovery monk owning mesmer, with shame, diversion, and I believe blackout, as well as some dps
Bsurge emo, with some speed boost I believe
Monk LoD
Some other monk
E/Mo Ice runner (water trident, I believe)

FFs:
Burning Arrow R/Mo splits
Split Warrior (I think YAA)
Some other warrior that can split, and does alot (they do alot more 3 man splits)
Some centerish warrior
Water Trident<-Ice Me/E with alot of dom spells (I believe diversion + e deny, perhaps shame and blackout?)
Monk LoD
Some other monk
E/Mo runner (I think ice, but I could be wrong) with heal party

MH (this is the only build we've run recently that we have actually planned out before hand, so this is our idea of a perfect balanced build):
Burning Arrow R/Mo splits
Split Warrior (ours is shove/hammer)
Some center warrior that can split (shock/axe)
Hammer Warrior centerish (earthsaker)
Me/E edenial/dps mesmer with blackout and windbourn speed (for double flag running and fun blackout pressure)
E/Rt Weapon of Remedy/Ice Hybrid, runs sometimes sometimes doesnt
Monk LoD
Some other monk (ours is ZB infuse)

If you were just skimming over those now is the time to tune back in. Basically, we all run this same format:

2 split chars (R/Mo and a self sufficient warrior)
1 mesmer who pressures (not a spike based one)
x (for us and FFs its a third character whose very self sufficient, for dV and vD its a character that adds defense and allows the center to spike)
1 mainly middle tank
2 monks (One of which has LoD)
1 spell casting runner, preferably with base defense options
and one note: all versions of this build have alot of movement control (notice the ice snares, characters with gale, bullscharge/YAA/hammer/shock warriors, alot of rangers have pin down, etc).

Balance has always been about being able to react to anything your opponent does and stay in control of the match. Because there are so many skills now and so many lame super pressure/super spike builds, that means modern balance is very split heavy and based on tactical wins, not wins which are the result of imbalanced skills. But that doesn't mean just sending off two people every time, it means evaluating the situation and doing whats best. It means that sometimes 2 people will split, sometimes 3, sometimes four. For example if you watch vD, you will sometimes see just the burning arrow splitting, most of the time burning arrow+warrior, sometimes burning arrow+warrior+dervish, and sometimes even another character joins in. Same for all these other guilds, although us and FFs are more inclined to send 3 characters on the split than the others.

Its all about being fluid, and having people go where they belong to stay in control of the match. Somtimes this even means having 2 people split at one point in the base, another guy running in through another entrance in the enemy base to kill guards, another character stalling the enemy in your base, and then a center team fighting at the flag stand. Its all about being able to adapt, and if you look at these builds you can see that they are all very good at being able to adapt - hence all the movement control, hence the characters that can both spike and pressure and split (notice no assassins, since they suck in the middle), hence lods AND heal parties (or a third healer like us) for spreading heals all across a huge match instead of focusing them at the flag stand, hence so many characters that can run flag, etc, etc etc. [also, hence the hammer warrior we and dV use, which both doubles as heavy offense and good defense since it has the ability to lineback]

Now I honest believe that if you just copy the format I gave you, you should be fine (you don't even need to copy one of the builds I posted directly). It gives you tactical options and you can specify it more to your individual players abilities (you might not have 3 tank players, or 3 caster players, or whatever) and, if you use it right, you wont always win but you will never have been in a situation where you COULDN'T win and thats all that matters. Plus you have quite a few teams you can then observe to figure out how to do this who all run a similar format, so you should be able to get better in no time.

GL and sorry if this was longwinded!

Thomas.knbk · Feb 07, 2007, 06:51 PM // 18:51

B TV is the way

Franco Power · Feb 07, 2007, 07:03 PM // 19:03

Best way to learn is join a guild and practise, just because you have a build that a top ranked gvg guild uses doesn't make you good.

Join a guild or make a guild and learn the basics: Halls, flag running, basic tactics , etc. Best thing to do is join a guild that has a competent leader that knows what he's doing and learn, you won't learn much by just reading it from some website, you gotta practise and learn.

Phelann · Feb 07, 2007, 08:22 PM // 20:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Legendary Ultimatum

Best way to learn is join a guild and practise, just because you have a build that a top ranked gvg guild uses doesn't make you good.

Join a guild or make a guild and learn the basics: Halls, flag running, basic tactics , etc. Best thing to do is join a guild that has a competent leader that knows what he's doing and learn, you won't learn much by just reading it from some website, you gotta practise and learn.

All that is true, but copying a top teams builds (if its a balance build) really does speed up this process, because when you lose you really cant blame your build and instead have to look at ways you could have played better. Plus, you always have a few guilds that you can observe to learn from directly so that you can use your build better, all of which is better than trying to get a little misinformed niche build to work in gvg.

Or in short.

Copying top team builds = good.

Farin · Feb 07, 2007, 08:27 PM // 20:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phelann

FFs:
Burning Arrow R/Mo splits
Split Warrior (I think YAA) <- Yes YAA
Some other warrior that can split, and does alot (they do alot more 3 man splits) <- Eviscerate with mending touch and heal sig
Some centerish warrior <- Hammer
Water Trident<-Ice Me/E with alot of dom spells (I believe diversion + e deny, perhaps shame and blackout?)
Monk LoD
Some other monk<- Usually ZB
E/Mo runner (I think ice, but I could be wrong) with heal party<-. Mind Freeze

Basically what Phelann said is right. With the current 'balanced' builds it's more of a split thing and trying to outplay your opponent through tactics. Most builds nowadays try to overpower through your defense with Avatar of Grenth and whatnot.In my opinion, split games and matches against guilds like iQ, MH, and dV are the the most enjoyable because of the amount of movement and tactics that go into them. There's actually a feeling of winning instead of just using OP tools to power through.

Yue · Feb 07, 2007, 08:48 PM // 20:48

Phelann did a pretty good job with the examples. Another thing to keep in mind is for a balanced build that has resettable splits, every player needs to know what they're doing and relay that to the rest of the team. When you're running a heavy pressure style build or something more onesided, there's usually a primary tactics/target caller. However, in order to run balanced/split efficiently, every player on the team must be able to call his or her own tactics. Thus, each individual needs to have a fairly thorough understanding of game mechanics. If you're just starting to practice splitting, you can start with 2 tactics caller: 1 for split, 1 for flagstand team. As you progress and experiment with resetting splits, allow all of your players to contribute. For example, anyone on our team can call spikes or assists on opportune targets. If our ranger sees a low target, he can call an assist/spike. If a monk has pulled someone to the backline, he can call for a countdown collapse on the target. This maximizes the opportunities that you can get in taking advantage of another team's mishap in positioning or etc. Communication is the most essential aspect of a balanced build, and I'm sure if you listen to dV, MH, or any of the other teams that run balance, you'll notice that the vocal participation of the players is much higher than that of a guild running a more one-sided build.

sage tank · Feb 08, 2007, 03:27 PM // 15:27

If you want watch steamroller uber offensive build that work on most team but not others, try to watch the game late night(eastern time) where There is A Cow Level [Cow] plays. They usually finished a game under 6 minute on alot of top 300 teams. Their build is only designed for againist most teams but not all, there are some weakness. But I think their ideology is probably play lots lots of matchs and just win alot to overturn any accidental loss that may occur in the process.

Note: Cow's mes are good, I mean really good, watch how they screw the monk by timing the diversion right before a spike goes off.

If you want watch more balanced play offs that team plays more defensively so they can fight off almost all other builds in splits or 8 vs 8, Team Everfrost, Flying Liberacy and I would say 80% of other top 100 runs them.