Curse

Alleji · Feb 07, 2007, 10:05 PM // 22:05

First hit of shadow strike is shadow damage, second is life stealing. The two are different. Shadow damage ignores armor, but gets reduced by anything that reduces damage: RoF, PS, SoA, Stoneflesh Aura and Lightbringer title (if you're taking shadow damage from demonic servants of Abaddon, i.e. Leeloof)

Life stealing can't be stopped/reduced by anything except stuff like spell breaker.

Angelic bond actually has a miniscule effect on bspike because it increases the number of shadow strikes that get the >50% trigger.

Normal spike goes something like this:
SS1: 50 shadow damage (target is >50%) + 50 lifesteal
SS2: 50 shadow damage (target is >50%) + 50 lifesteal
SS3: 50 shadow damage (target is >50%) + 50 lifesteal
SS4: 50 shadow damage (target is <50%)
SS5: 50 shadow damage (target is <50%)

Angelic Bond reduces only first number to 25, so 4 shadow strikes usually get the conditional effect instead of 3... which means it does effectively nothing.

Random fact: Ob flame is actually shadow damage, not armor-ignoring earth damage. Mantra of Earth doesn't trigger on ob spike.

Zui · Feb 07, 2007, 10:15 PM // 22:15

Actualy, Obsidian Flame is untyped damage. It's not Shadow Damage, even though it will act the same way(under current mechanics, anyway, if they ever add a retarded and worthless skill that 'counters' shadow damage, obsidian flame won't be effected, since it is not shadow damage).

Franco Power · Feb 07, 2007, 10:17 PM // 22:17

So Angelic bond does help, unless the paragons infuser doesn't suck, blood spike would be hard to beat Paraspike... meh bloodspike sucks anyway.

Alleji · Feb 08, 2007, 02:05 PM // 14:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zui

Actualy, Obsidian Flame is untyped damage. It's not Shadow Damage, even though it will act the same way(under current mechanics, anyway, if they ever add a retarded and worthless skill that 'counters' shadow damage, obsidian flame won't be effected, since it is not shadow damage).

I'm curious as to how you tested the difference between shadow damage and "untyped damage"?

Horace The Great · Feb 08, 2007, 02:55 PM // 14:55

8v8

+ skill balance

Now they only need to go back to the old system and it will be cool

Earendil · Feb 08, 2007, 02:55 PM // 14:55

How about an evil combination of Rspike and Bspike ?

R/Rit
12 channeling
13 expertise
10 marksmanship

Vampiric bow +5 energy

1. Elite (options: Offering of spirit, Prepared stance, Escape...others)
2. Seeking arrows
3. Nightmare weapon
4. Dual shot
5. Distracting shot
6. Sight beyond sight/antidote signet
7. Favwinds/Blodsong/some ranger defensive stance
8. Res sig/FomF

One spike (dual + dist) under level 12 OoV does 180 life steal. From one ranger. x4 = 720. How do you couter that (defensively of course...offensively there are more options) ?

The Silver Star · Feb 08, 2007, 03:01 PM // 15:01

On noes teh shields up chain and Primal and Roaraing Winds hurts my eyes!

Nice of you to tell us whats overpowered before its been played thanks. Lets see what really gets on our tits ok?

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Earendil · Feb 08, 2007, 03:23 PM // 15:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Silver Star

On noes teh shields up chain and Primal and Roaraing Winds hurts my eyes!

Nice of you to tell us whats overpowered before its been played thanks. Lets see what really gets on our tits ok?

I dont know if you are taking about my build (probably not since Primal (echoes ?, Rage?) and roaring winds have nothing to do with it).

However, shields up chain wont do much when you can keep seeking arrows on for at least half of the spikes (all of them with Practiced stance).

Discussing (realistically) about the possible builds in 8v8 can only help us to prepare for what is going to hapen. I don't see it as something damaging to anyone.

JR · Feb 08, 2007, 05:05 PM // 17:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alleji

I'm curious as to how you tested the difference between shadow damage and "untyped damage"?

It is 'armor ignoring damage', which is kind of a class of it's own.

lishi · Feb 08, 2007, 10:13 PM // 22:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Earendil

How about an evil combination of Rspike and Bspike ?

R/Rit
12 channeling
13 expertise
10 marksmanship

Vampiric bow +5 energy

1. Elite (options: Offering of spirit, Prepared stance, Escape...others)
2. Seeking arrows
3. Nightmare weapon
4. Dual shot
5. Distracting shot
6. Sight beyond sight/antidote signet
7. Favwinds/Blodsong/some ranger defensive stance
8. Res sig/FomF

One spike (dual + dist) under level 12 OoV does 180 life steal. From one ranger. x4 = 720. How do you couter that (defensively of course...offensively there are more options) ?

imo your math are wrong. with 10 mark i dont think they do 180+ damage.

but anyway a ranger with 16 mark will do more damage under OoV then your build and ranger spike during the last days of 8v8 wasn't a probrem

Earendil · Feb 08, 2007, 10:54 PM // 22:54

My math is good. Even with 0 marksmanship each arrow will still do exactly 60 life steal. It's the dynamics of Nightmare weapon that some people dont get - they think it converts regular damage into life steal.

Even if a standard Rspike does more damage, the "life steal" aspect makes it a lot more effective by being extremely hard to counter and also a healing source.

Anyway I've posted the build for discussion on the HA builds forums and I've already got some useful feedback.

Nadia Roark · Feb 09, 2007, 08:26 AM // 08:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Earendil

Even if a standard Rspike does more damage, the "life steal" aspect makes it a lot more effective by being extremely hard to counter and also a healing source.

Yeah... imo ANet needs to be careful with life stealing since it's dangerously close to being broken. The only (reasonable) existing counters are SpellBreaker and Infuse Health, which is kind of lame.