Curse

Lightbulb · Jan 19, 2007, 08:49 AM // 08:49

The monks IMO don't make the best strat callers. In truth the best person should be the strat called regardsless of position. However i think that a midline player usually has a better impression of the 'big picture'. However all players need to keep the team informed of things they spot - split teams heading out, who has the hard res, where the infuser is etc so that the caller and the strat caller can make the best decisions.

MaaKotka · Jan 19, 2007, 12:22 PM // 12:22

I agree that monks don't are best strat callers in general, but when your guild is new and your communication doesn't work as great as it should and you have only one strat caller, then it should be a monk. It can be midline class also, but then your monk has to be able to say if the push you tell is possible for them to handle.

Nadine · Jan 19, 2007, 04:36 PM // 16:36

Hmmm...
One thing, if u have one strat caller (which _never_ shuold be a monk) there will occur couple of problems. For example split situations will be hell like if there is only one BOSS who is on main or split team.

Democracy, ofc there will be those 2-4 guys speakign more than others but it is better than 1 crying and making misstakes.

lord of shadow · Jan 19, 2007, 04:43 PM // 16:43

Essentially i, as a monk, have the final say on defensive plays for our team, and our flagstand warrior calls splits and pushes. Our flagger requests help from the split squad or stand team if they have a gank, and i will make the decision on weather to send a flagstand monk back, knowing best if i can handle the pressure at the stand solo.

Everyone chips in, calls overextenders, bad positioning and incoming flaggers etc. The split squad has final say on weather they go for flaggers, counter opponents' splits or help fight at the stand. Ultimately though i think it is best to have 2-3 people who have the final say on issues if things become confused, and these players will generally occur naturally.

Playing as individuals is by far the best way to play, but for anything below the level of QQ and eF play it's best to have one person who can just override everybody when things get confused.

nebuchanezzar · Jan 19, 2007, 06:48 PM // 18:48

Lots of good input for the OP to sort through here. I think he said his was a newer guild. If that is the case then try starting with a more direct tactic caller and/or target caller. Eventually with play time together you will move to the more democratic style(even if your a spike guild) just through playtime together and experience. Some general rules of thumb(mine not written by the Creator or published in carven stone)
1. Your target caller must be an offensive character. This should be a no brainer but I am absolutely serious when I say I have had to be target caller from the monk position before.....it can work but it's too much to ask of someone.
2. Have at least one other person not afraid to call targets when your primary caller goes down, splits, etc.
3. Your tactics caller SHOULD NOT BE your target caller if possible(especially in less experienced teams). I only stress this one as it allows your target caller(usually warrior) to truly focus on killing/pressure/disruption. I prefer midline characters for this role. EviLs target caller was a mesmer predominately but he did not call targets too often as I understand(never sat in EviLs vent so don't know....for that matter, still wouldn't as I don't speak Korean =])
4. Make your monks get very vocal. I don't care if one hates how he sounds like a she on vent. Your team NEEDS to know when they feel to pressured, when RoF gets diverted or when they are KD'd or Blacked out. Like mentioned before, if your monks say they need some space time etc GIVE IT TO THEM OR DIE. It really is that simple. So you better have a really good reason to ignore them.
5. Learn to trust each other and CONSTRUCTIVELY criticize each others mistakes. Admit yours and work on improvements. You will get to a stage where you are losing matches only to superior tactics. Eventually it wont be your mistakes that kill you but lack of opponent mistakes to capitalize on. This is where high level play comes from. Experience will be what separates wins from losses often but sometimes a little luck is key.
this is turning into a rant so Ill cut it off.
GL & HF

Thom Bangalter · Jan 19, 2007, 07:10 PM // 19:10

All tactics should be called from the flagger position, imo.

sir lockt · Jan 25, 2007, 08:09 AM // 08:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by nebuchanezzar

Lots of good input for the OP to sort through here. I think he said his was a newer guild. If that is the case then try starting with a more direct tactic caller and/or target caller. Eventually with play time together you will move to the more democratic style(even if your a spike guild) just through playtime together and experience. Some general rules of thumb(mine not written by the Creator or published in carven stone)
1. Your target caller must be an offensive character. This should be a no brainer but I am absolutely serious when I say I have had to be target caller from the monk position before.....it can work but it's too much to ask of someone.
2. Have at least one other person not afraid to call targets when your primary caller goes down, splits, etc.
3. Your tactics caller SHOULD NOT BE your target caller if possible(especially in less experienced teams). I only stress this one as it allows your target caller(usually warrior) to truly focus on killing/pressure/disruption. I prefer midline characters for this role. EviLs target caller was a mesmer predominately but he did not call targets too often as I understand(never sat in EviLs vent so don't know....for that matter, still wouldn't as I don't speak Korean =])
4. Make your monks get very vocal. I don't care if one hates how he sounds like a she on vent. Your team NEEDS to know when they feel to pressured, when RoF gets diverted or when they are KD'd or Blacked out. Like mentioned before, if your monks say they need some space time etc GIVE IT TO THEM OR DIE. It really is that simple. So you better have a really good reason to ignore them.
5. Learn to trust each other and CONSTRUCTIVELY criticize each others mistakes. Admit yours and work on improvements. You will get to a stage where you are losing matches only to superior tactics. Eventually it wont be your mistakes that kill you but lack of opponent mistakes to capitalize on. This is where high level play comes from. Experience will be what separates wins from losses often but sometimes a little luck is key.
this is turning into a rant so Ill cut it off.
GL & HF

A lot of input indeed! we have tried some of the suggestions and declined others, which might work for other guilds, but not for ours. You make some valid points here and we will keep them in mind. Still my OP wasnt focussed on target calling but on strat calling.

thnx all for the input!
you'll see us around

regards

bluechestdude · Jan 26, 2007, 12:33 AM // 00:33

sir lockt, i might be repeating what other people r saying but i wil provide some iinput (hopefully)

personally a target caller should be a melee, and ur target caller should be calling targets constantly there shouldnt be a time where u wouldnt have a target. There are times if a melee is lagging like hell and the other cant call because he doesnt have a mic then the midline can cast ones that assist in spikes as well.

For tactics personally id put a midline caster as tactics it can concentrate looking at the map and making decisions as monks may have healing on their hands like saving from spike to be calling tactics.

leguma · Jan 30, 2007, 10:09 AM // 10:09

I think the biggest issue with regard to strat calling is the goal you have in mind.

If you are just starting out, and want to break in and get play experience, especially when you do not have a lot of background at playing as a team, you are better of with the one man approach. The benefits of this have been already stated and I will not go into.

However the aformentioned aproach is only good up to a certain point, after which it starts turning into a problem for your team. When you have reached the peak of this approach, continuing on will only hurt your team in the long run. The more people are told what to do, and the more they get used to it, the more they will start expecting it. In time, this can degenerate to the point where if that caller is not playing, the team cannot function propperly and is pretty much lost.

One way to work around this problem is to alternate strat calling so that nobody ever 'falls' into that position in the eyes of everyone else. This can and will be hard to complish because many will feel uncomfortable doing this, however, if this is done, it will ensure that the team, as a whole is both able to follow commands, and that each memmber is capable of forming their own decisions. Again, communication is a much a skill as playing the game itself, and just like you get massive perspective on playing a monk, if you sometimes play as a warrior or mesmer, alternating the communication roles is essential for long term improvement. Even games where there is no voice com whatsoever can be an invaluable playing experience that will further synergise an existing team if approached with the right mindset.

Last but not least, you need to stop and think about what calling strat means to you. This might seem like a stupid/moot point, but it is quite important. Some people will controll everything to the finest detail, while others will never really go beyond team level issues. You need to take into account both the caller and all the individual players on the team here, because not eveybody will like each and every approach, and while at first this never seems apparant, diferences in points of view such as this can over time come to hinder a team and fuel conflicts.

sage tank · Jan 30, 2007, 02:56 PM // 14:56

Staying on called target is definitely important, but imo it shouldnt be on top of the list, people should have their own way of thinking of taking advantage of enemy's mistakes. It is best if everyone chat about the way guild battle goes and how everyone should act before hand, so you know you are on the same page as your guildies. I usually play as the Grenth derv with Sight Beyond Sight. We know that grenth is imbalanced, thats we run 3 of them. in the initial battle, all of us would go for their backline monk and 1 grenth follow them, and 2 grenth focus on their flag runner. After that, as the battle heat on call should be made from the designated caller(usually our guild leader or an officer) to see who is to die. But off course, when you are fighting your called target, take a look at the surrounding and see if you can take off from the called target.

Here is a list of things you should consider who to attack, the one on top should be priority in 8 vs 8.

1. Overextenders, (there has been alot of dervish out there lately who overextend like warriors, but they are not, they are short of 10+16 Al and rune of absorption. These people needs to learn, they take 100 damage from scythe, just as same as their targets do.)

2. Stranded off people, (sometime in a enemy retreat, monk will run away really fast, while sometimes they wil leave people behind, so instead chasing monks, take out those people they left behind and inflict much DP possible.)

3. Ball-uper, (This one is my personal favorite, since everyone is running a derv train, we must punish them. One time, while chasing the enemy monk, I notice that two melendru derv and a warrior was on our ranger, but they were stationary because I think our ranger was crippled with shadow prison and cant move. So, i decided to punish these idiots with my scythe, selected the middle person, hit wild blow, lyssa's assualt, chilling victory, and mystic sweep. one of their dervish droped immediately, warrior was healed by the monk and ran away. If you can put aoe to maximum damage, then use it, it will pressure the monk into leting one target die and save another.)

4. Called Target

other than these, I don't thing there is any other situation where you shouldn't stay on called target. Well unless you running a gank, then you are on your own(till your team telling you that enemies are retreating).

Yue · Jan 30, 2007, 04:12 PM // 16:12

As Leguma said, if your guild or group is relatively new, then a single tactics caller would be best. However, as time progresses, your individual players improve and so do their knowledge of tactics. As such, when you begin, your tactics caller may give out clear instructions of positioning and targeting. However, as your guild improves or you begin to work on split tactics, then it becomes best for your head tactics caller to give objectives. This can include setting an objective for one team to take out certain npcs, watch for a gank, or shutdown certain targets. As time passes, the responsibility of tactics calling becomes more decentralize and objectives will be the primary method by which tactics will be conveyed.

Cron0s · Feb 11, 2007, 11:13 PM // 23:13

To be on topic and answer your question, i'll have to say this:

The "Battlecomander" usualy called coordonator, it's the naturale born leader of the team.That person it's not just a leader in the gvg games, but usualy he manages to be respected by the guild members, for his attitude.
Ofcourse, a lot of people manage to make a guild, so they become the official guild leaders, but that doesn't mean they are the suited ones for the role.And most of all, that doesn't mean they are the best suited to be the coordonator.
The coordonator, has to have "cojones", to be able to say clear and correct, what is the next step they will do.Wispering on vent "spp...spppl...split" will more likely make your team mates unsure of your decision.They have to be some what "cocky" and never be afraid of a challenge, giving hope and morale for the team(I've seen a lot of players that when they meet a rank 100 guild, start with comments like"ok, so this is lost".Again, that isn't of a big help)
Also, as an commander, you need to know your team, and what are they capable of.This takes time, so playing with the same members is sometimes a great idea. Playing in a guild for some time, I was friend with a lot of guys, but one of them thought he is Rambo, and always runned in the NPC's. So telling a friend that they play wrong, is pretty hard. No one will take the remarke as an constructive critic, just try to give him a suiting role, and give him more often comands in-game, so he'll get out of his habbits

Ofcourse, you can have all the abilitys above, but there is one thing that makes you a good leader.The knowledge of the game.You simply can't take a good decision if you don't know against what build are you playing, what are theyr strong/weak point, which skills should play a more vital role in that game.This can only be done with lot's of gvg's played,even by watching games.

People that are born with these abilities, are easly remarked in real life,in game, basicly everywhere there is a community.For them it's much more easier, but with time and learning, you can also be a good leader.

To summit all up, and give you some short tips, based on my experience as a coordonator( I give the strats, and I also do the calling, because a good strategy,involves sometimes to take the more vulnerable player, and weaken theyr team)

#1.Know you team players!.It's esential to know what are they capable of.This will make much more easier to asign a job for a player( to pull a diversion on a certain skill, to haras a monk, to push the flag etc.)

#2.The role of coordonator gives you the power to take tactical decisions that can bring victory or lose.All make mistakes, but learning from them is what makes you good.

#3. The thrill of achieving a victory as a leader, is...what can I say..it's simply great!.But losing a game it's even worser.Try to not let this efect you, because you are the one responsabile for the morale of the team( not that 10%)

#4. Never try to overdue o "badass" attitude, just to get some respect.If the team agrease that you should play team leader, that means that you already have theyr respect, so try to keep it.

#5. Always, and I mean always, try to play it safe.After a tight battle, ask's the status on the monk's energy.The diference from "let's back up and give time for the monks to regen energ" and "push forward" can sometimes win or lose you a match.Don't take risks onless you know that you have a capable team.

#6. If things aren't going the way they should, that means somethings wrong, try to find the problem and change the tactics.

#7. Every part of the game has it's role, ignoring that aspect will surely bring you a well disarved lose.I've seen it, I've done it, I surely won't do it again.
Giving up an morale just because you have +10% , or ingoring on some maps the other flagstands that do dmg,etc...

#8. Players, builds, wrong uses of a build or skills, all of them will keep you aways from braking the , let's say 800 rang. Try to get a good, simple, balanced build from a competitive guild, and be sure that they will explain you the tactics that involve it.Practice that build till you get sick of it and know it like the back of your hand.Then move on to more complicated builds that require more coordonation and skillfull players.

That's the least I can say about leadership and coordonation.There are still a lot of things to lear, but experience plays a large role in this matter.