Curse

Ramod · Jan 20, 2007, 10:18 PM // 22:18

Please note devs when you read comment made by players in this forum to notice the "bigger/more experienced" HA guilds that play many diverse builds and play extremely often, many times winning Halls, with almost all of them wanting to revert back to 8v8 and Original altar-capping HoH whereas commenters with no guild displays or less experienced guilds that are often not seen playing in HA or winning Halls promoting this new AB-style of "altar capping" and kill count.

Just something to keep in the back of your mind while reading.

luilui · Jan 20, 2007, 10:25 PM // 22:25

The changes are stupid imo.
kill count:
This just promote high dmg build. Say u have 2 godly mesmers that can completely shut down 2 monks and u have 2 other dmg dealer. In an altar map, ur team with 2 high dmg teams. The possibilities are :-
1) ganked gg;
2) ur mesmer shut down the monks of one team while the other team OUTKILL you as they have 4 dmg dealers while u only have 2. Then they have 4 points and u have 2 then all they need to do is running for the remaining time and it's gg to them.

so this "Kill Count" mechanism is a retarded idea if they want to promote diversity. If HA requires little tactics before now it requires even less.

Murder ball
Changing HoH map to relic map is just ^%@%^$@$%&&@ n/c. The stairs are so narrow u can body block with a foes and 2 players like forever without any problem let alone just 1 min and there's no alternate path.

Point capture
I don't think point capture is a good idea with the hoh map and with only 6 players.........

I don't like the changes but if they do want to change it that way then please at %^&*ing least change the stupid HoH map to something more suitable for the new victory conditions. This just show how Anet want to put in the minimun effort in HA.

Seriously if Anet don't want ppl to play HA should just say it out, dont mess it up like this. They are treating those who take HA seriously as fools and totally disrespectful to the HA community. I would take less offense if they actually say "ok we want to change the direction of HA, this is now an arena to promote pve players to pvp, all dedicated HA players please leave." I'll go "ok fair enough i'll go pve or another game. Thanks for all the fun anet." There will be no hard feeling and raging, i'll still buy chapter 4 as i like pve still, instead of %#&%%$&@ Anet!!!11!!

P.S. please don't send poor Galie to talk to us, she doesn't know anything about pvp, it's not helping and i don't want to see her getting bullied. The person that's responsible for the changes please have the courage to stand up and speak for youself.

---------------

In an ideal world, companies will treat customers with respect and be open with them. In this case they'll tell us how much resource they are prepared to spend on this and what's their purpose behind a particular policy. It might not help much and maybe you can get away with fooling, but the world will have more dignity.

allience · Jan 20, 2007, 10:33 PM // 22:33

-Return of Burial Mounds: i like it, i think it should stay

-Removal of Scarred Earth: i think it should be brought back since it was nothing wrong with it.

-Other HA changes: the winning conditions promote ganking and discourage ANY form of tactic. a gank fest with high damage builds is NOT reflecting skill. it doesn't promote new builds, it doesn't do a single good thing. i don't understand why you guys MIX things up and make a kitch out of it.

*Kill Count is totally messed up. players just try to steal other team's kills and it's simple chaos on the battle field. it just makes the game a CHANCE game. you win by the luck of the draw. it's frustrating and it involves no form of though or tactics. it's simply about scoring some kills with aoe damage and running after the team that fell appart to steal more kills.

*Murder Ball is something of a true chaotic nature. i think that it has no place in this map. mixing a relic type of thing in the chaos of 3 teams is not good. it's frustrating and again in the end it's the luck of the draw that decided the winner.

*Capture Points, in my opinion u should leave that for alliance battles. i don't see the point of this in a 6v6 team. splitting in 4 is just not designed for heroes ascent because it's the ONLY map that randomly has this requirement.

*Suggestion: please leave the Altar maps as they were. it's been working well since gw was released. the whole concept of the ghostly hero and the altar capture was UNIQUE to heroes ascent. it's what sets it appart from the other arenas. please don't kill HA with a bad taste mixture of alliance/gvg/random arena!

tomcruisejr · Jan 20, 2007, 10:35 PM // 22:35

Return of Burial Mounds

not thrilled. it's just another map unless they bring back 1vs1vs1vs1vs1vs1 in burial

Removal of Scarred Earth

this was the 2nd most exciting map in HA (with the lever of course). it's fun to mingle with 2 teams fighting and do mini-mini-moe or decide which is the stronger team to gank.

Other HA changes: Name and brief commentary (and yes, comments on subcategories welcome)

Burial/Courtyard changes - superb. now no more reasons to make stalling defensive builds.

Hall of the Heroes - omg very nice. now it's not pve anymore.

you should evaluate Murderball tho. please make it such that all 3 teams are on equal footing.

please implement the proposed changes with the good tweaks and after that, revert back to 8vs8

love,

phoenixtech · Jan 20, 2007, 10:39 PM // 22:39

New Maps:
Kill count: I think this is kind of fun map, however, the mechanics of this needs to be changed. Right now it really favors spike teams + AOE damage. It's too easy for someone to steal points by getting in the last hit. I think Kill count would be GREAT for a 1v1 situation though, so might consider making courtyard + broken tower 1v1.

Murderball: Favors the holding team WAYYY too much. I would know since I held halls for ~5 games last night and 2 of it came from murderball. It's just too easy to get the first relic and hold the lead.

Capture points: Love it. Pretty good the way it is now.

Overall, I like the rotating objectives, it keeps builds from getting stale and prevent boring uber-defensive builds that tries to hold halls (i'm sure all of those people who benefited from playing these uber defensive builds will come in and cry about how ANET doesn't listen to them and QQ about it, but ANET needs to look at the big picture and not cave in to whiners).

guild deputy · Jan 20, 2007, 10:51 PM // 22:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by allience

-Return of Burial Mounds: i like it, i think it should stay

-Removal of Scarred Earth: i think it should be brought back since it was nothing wrong with it.

-Other HA changes: the winning conditions promote ganking and discourage ANY form of tactic. a gank fest with high damage builds is NOT reflecting skill. it doesn't promote new builds, it doesn't do a single good thing. i don't understand why you guys MIX things up and make a kitch out of it.

*Kill Count is totally messed up. players just try to steal other team's kills and it's simple chaos on the battle field. it just makes the game a CHANCE game. you win by the luck of the draw. it's frustrating and it involves no form of though or tactics. it's simply about scoring some kills with aoe damage and running after the team that fell appart to steal more kills.

*Murder Ball is something of a true chaotic nature. i think that it has no place in this map. mixing a relic type of thing in the chaos of 3 teams is not good. it's frustrating and again in the end it's the luck of the draw that decided the winner.

*Capture Points, in my opinion u should leave that for alliance battles. i don't see the point of this in a 6v6 team. splitting in 4 is just not designed for heroes ascent because it's the ONLY map that randomly has this requirement.

*Suggestion: please leave the Altar maps as they were. it's been working well since gw was released. the whole concept of the ghostly hero and the altar capture was UNIQUE to heroes ascent. it's what sets it appart from the other arenas. please don't kill HA with a bad taste mixture of alliance/gvg/random arena!

I totally agree, the unique thing of HA has had a long history I think you mess it up with the update:

The Ghosly Hero isn't really important anymore, I think you should use all maps ( so the old and disabled ones to) with the old rules, the only thing that was really important was the skill balance which is like a lot.

I must say that the new winning conditions are a nice idea as a test but I think it doesn't work.

My compliments for:

The test weekend instead of a random update.
Skill balance.
The idea of changing HA, but the history is just great, please just keep it as it was before.

Ec]-[oMaN · Jan 20, 2007, 11:19 PM // 23:19

Played kill count on broken tower twice today, tied with one team while the other resigned, but they got the last kill and just ran around the map, wasn't too fun. At least make it team elimination from there after.

Kyle The Piemaster · Jan 21, 2007, 12:08 AM // 00:08

I guess you didn't realize it when you made alliance battles, but they pretty much RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing suck. You might as well add some NPCs to HoH when you cap an altar because it's basically a 1 in 3 chance that you roll the PvE objective. Congratulations on making Broken Tower and Courtyard somewhat fun however. I would also like to congratulate you on putting that same objective on the worst possible map for it. I guess when you play Heroes Ascent you haven't made it to Halls in a while because the way you worked that objective I don't think you remember what the map looks like. I'll draw you a picture:

[ ]=====[ ]=====[ ]
............| |
............| |
............[ ]

See those really small lines connecting to the center? Those are tiny little halls that are asking people to spam their AoE spells into. The only reason that the objective is effective on Broken Tower and Courtyard is because each team has an area they can fall back into, not a small hall in which they are hit with every sandstorm warder(s) that nearly every team brings. Which brings me to my next point: Relic runs in halls.

...
...
...

Please refer to the picture of halls that I gave you above. Each little square is where you take the relic, and once again, those little lines are tiny halls that you have to carry a relic through. You might as well change the victory condition on this map to read: "If two teams have ward against foes, the blue team wins, unless one of those warders works for Anet, because they probably have no idea what's going on"

Suggestions for each:
Shrine Capping: Leave it in alliance battles.
Relics: Either admit that you probably came up with this 10 minutes before the update and didn't put a single thought into it, or quit your job and find someone with a brain to take over.
Kill Count: It works. But not in the center of halls.

What to do:
Leave Broken Tower and Courtyard with the kill count objective, it works and it's great for getting rid of overly defensive holding builds. With this in mind you can change Halls back to the regular holding format. With the new halls chest IMO more people will come back to HA. If people do start coming back: change halls back to 5 teams, with the teams on the outside in a kill count match that ends with 5 minutes left in the match. The teams with the most kills on either side go to the center for the regular holding objective.

F U R I E · Jan 21, 2007, 12:44 AM // 00:44

Return of Burial Mounds: Love it.
Removal of Scarred Earth:that was a nosense map, nice to hear you removed it
Other HA changes: Sadly HA is still 6vs6, and, imho, it remains just an alternative way of pvp, like RA or TA. With 8vs8 there was a good balance with offence and defence, which lacks now in 6vs6.

Hybris · Jan 21, 2007, 12:46 AM // 00:46

I will be brief with my opinions.
Removal of saccred earth: I like it. Why? I don't know Just feels better imo.
Added burial: I like it aswell, alot more fun with 1v1 in HA
Altar changes are superb, if people can't handle it, then don't.
For the moment I don't have much more to say. And for the love of god, keep 6 versus 6. Which I hope will be so

Rizvan · Jan 21, 2007, 01:12 AM // 01:12

Burial Mounds: Glad it is back, but personally I dont care.
Scarred Earth: Glad it is gone because it was terrible to be ganked just because your fight lasted a little longer than the other teams'.
Broken Tower: Thank God I dont have to deal with any more holding builds. I hate have to lose just because the holding team managed to cap and 2 mins is not enough to kill them.
Hall Of Heroes: Make the corridors a little bit wider, dealing with massive AoE damage is ridiculous.
Skill Balances: Glad you returned Divert Hexes to 1 second. I hate the fact that Steady stance and angelic bond were not touched, both of them are overpowered and encourage gimmicks. The rest of changes: indifferent.

Conclusion:
Make broken tower and courtyard have a shorter time limit. 10 minutes is just to o long.
Nerf Angelic bond and steady stance because it encourages builds like Zergway and it is really annoying having a 20 minute match against them just because they have so much defense.
Keep 6v6, people claim that 8v8 encourages more variety, but then how come all I have seen in 8v8 HA was B spike, iway, smiting and nr/tranq. That's 4 builds, soooo much variety.
Make the ghostly sword that the zaishen warrior has available in the game.

guildwars101 · Jan 21, 2007, 01:58 AM // 01:58

THANK YOU FOR REMOVING SCARED EARTH THANK GOD!!!!!!
ok searing flames must be nerfed forever it is just too good and too asy to run
and plz make it eaiser to gain fame
many people belive that faem determines skill IT DOES NOT it says that you ha way to much make it eaiser to gain fame cuz ever since FAME -A- PALLOZA being r3 means absolutley nothing oh and hi anet hope your reading this hmmm anything else i wanna say...nah nothing that relates to this topic plz respon wether you approve this idea or dissapprove

coleslawdressin · Jan 21, 2007, 02:07 AM // 02:07

6x8 skills = 48
8x8 skills = 64

Arguing that 6v6 has as much variety or as many possible builds only makes you look stupid.... See the simple math above. I never made a team and used blood spike/iway/rangerspike/whatever FOTM.. so there must have been other things being run...

Gaile: I still want to know if you can find out if 8v8 is being considered. If it isn't, a lot of us would be happier to know that so we can just stop caring about tombs for good.

Having actually played last night, I will update my opinions some.

Courtyard/Broken Tower: The kill count thing is horrible. The maps either need to be 1v1, go back to how they were, or have a more intelligent way of deciding kills than who scores the last hit. I guess the most damage done by X team would work, along with a 10% or so bonus for the final hit. Don't forget that degen (not normally considered "damage" in the game engine would need to be taken into account somehow). There may be problems with that like disease cross spreading from one team to another or other conditional splash damages. It isn't a good mechanic how it is now.. Maybe consider other additions like points for holding the altar to stop teams from running away then coming back to gank kills when the other 2 teams engage.

HoH: Prizes for every player is the best addition and it was long overdue. The flames of balthazar dropping from the chest needs fixed though unless that is coming back. Gold rewards will get more people playing PVP for sure. The idea of rotating gameplay modes is good but the deathball mode doesn't look fun and kill-count has the same problems here. Again, the map designers need to put more effort into HoH really. The capture points could be made way more interesting.

Hephaistion · Jan 21, 2007, 02:21 AM // 02:21

Quote:

Courtyard/Broken Tower: The kill count thing is horrible. The maps either need to be 1v1, go back to how they were, or have a more intelligent way of deciding kills than who scores the last hit

The way kills are decided it just inherently flawed, you can have degened or damaged a person for 90% percent and still the other team can steal your kill by finishing that guy off.

AYss · Jan 21, 2007, 02:25 AM // 02:25

Dear Devs... In short, it's a step, a change that finally have come. I'm afraid it tho that's a step in a bit wrong direction.

Burial Mounds: Cool

Scarred Earth: Actually I like this one, especially after the update that brought the levelers. Only thing I hate is when I get a skip to it

.

capping altars: Simply stiupid idea. Come on... Everyone played AB. If someone like it, then he still plays it. I like HA for its altars and whole capping mechanics. It's even more interesting when every paragon (primary/secondary) is a potential SoC.

Broken Tower: Leave this map alone. It's perfect practice for new players on hoh-like map. And the idea of more kills = win is good in TA. ATM since it's 3-teams it's also denial of heavy-defense teams, but... I expect more from HoH then just facing prefectly balanced teams only and definately more that just "shoot 'em up" style.

various HoH goals: Cool idea, but please don't touch the altar. I would recommend experimenting with some secondary goals or add more maps with various goals on the way to HoH. But HA itself was always about who stands on the altar in the end, gets the favor of the gods and his name is on everyone's minds for a while... I'd keep it that way.

... And ... of course ... bring back 8vs8. It may be more difficult to get a group, but it's a 300% more fun when you have 64 skills at your disposal and 64 enemy's skills to counter. Also it would give you more possibilities to come up with interesting maps requiring splits and such.

Doctade · Jan 21, 2007, 03:09 AM // 03:09

Well this is my first post on this site, I have been a long time reader until now. After realizing that most people who are posting here are coming from PvE to try out this new update or are people who never would dream of having their character touch HoH without a skip from Zaishen (don't get me wrong some people are probably ranked higher and better than me who have posted). I have been a long time HAer, from wammway to iway to vimway to 6v6(

). My clan (Backslash Ragequit [FTW]) has been looking forward to this update because we wanted to prove skill and not just run cookie cutter builds (which we have not done since this last week). We have been dissapointed with everything except for the return of Burial Mounds and the removal of Scarred Earth. The change of 8v8 should also be added because it shows more skill in every aspect of skill in playing to skill in build making (which my guild leader [Whiteseal] has not been able to do to his full potential since the change to 6v6). I would like the people who play HA and consider themselves a veteran to please weigh in on their opinions (and if you a agree with me) to please backup my opinions.

I would thank the devs for reading this post (if they do) because I feel that I am representing the core veteran group of Guild Wars HA and how they feel on this trial.

Return of Burial Mounds: This was my favorite map and a great way to get that extra fame (unlike scarred which we always skip to beat the first team and get zerged)

Removal of Scarred Earth: This is the worst map ever, because it usually was a skip to this for either one fame or two fame for a win against two team (and maybe even three if you are getting ganked)

Other HA changes:
1.8v8 I do not know how many times you have heard this, but i would like to say that there is no reason why you should have changed this. I know the weekend was cool, but that was it. You must be more skilled to play in 8v8s and can run balanced against cookie cutter build and win!

2. I was hoping that the trapper build was going to be given a boost. Maybe you guys could try to do this, because that is our clan's favorite build.

3. HoH is homosexual now (im sorry but there is no other way to describe it)...HoH has always been about holding and will, in my mind, never be anything else. I feel that if you can get to HoH you should be tested on one of the hardest things to do...HOLD. I like how there are different matches which encourage balanced builds and not just cookie cutter builds.

4. Relic Runs...Hate them and always will, I have rolled the dice in these more times than I have actually played them and I will tell you, I am a pretty damn good gambler

5. Matches that work on kills...uhhh...you should not have put them where you put them, don't touch my alter match I enjoy them and find them to be fun and challenging. The kill idea is awsome but needs to find a good map, i would love to see Scarred Earth with all four teams running at eachother (no ganking) and first one to 15 with respawns (this is somehting you need) moves on to HoH. You could also use a relic run to do a kill count where a relic capture will give you three kills (or something).

6. New maps...WTF happened to them?

7. I was hoping for maps like when you fought Glint in Prophecies Campaign. With this, you could have everyone in the party bleeding, everyone knocked down every 15 seconds, or a frozen soil sort of play. This, would prove a teams true skill and put pressure on their monks.

Pcp · Jan 21, 2007, 03:19 AM // 03:19

Burial Mounds: First off, I think the readdition of Burial Mounds is one of the most respectable parts of this update

. Also a second 1v1 map was what I was looking foward to. I think after facing a team at The Underworld then going to straight to a 1v1v1 wasn't right. Also, with the addition of another 1v1 map it test's your skill's without having to do priest swaps at dark chambers.

IMO: Keep Burial Mounds and don't revert back to the original. Keep the wall so no more kiting and running far far away.

Scarred Earth: First off, Thank god. Not only did I hate this map, but it ruined many game mechanics. The problem with the map wasn't 1v1, then an additional 1v1, but the fact that either you would own the first team only to lose a 30 minute scarred earth for 3 fame or be having an intense battle and get ganked to hell by the other team that had finished or beat the other team, but have the team that already finished jump you so you have no time to regen.

IMO: Keep out Scarred Earth or change the mechanics of it. When I say change the mechanics, I mean, possibly make it so that after beating the first you atleast get 1 fame. If you can't do that, keep it out

.

Other HA changes: First off, the changing of altar maps is a good thing, but the only problem is the time limit.

IMO: I believe either the time should be reduced or a kill limit should be put in (say first team to 20 kills wins). Also the problem with the new maps is the team with the softest targets or with people you hate get ganked to hell.

Also the nerfing of the skill Rampage as One. Previously changed 3 times and now an addtional time. I think its nice to have reduced to recharge and max time, but 25 energy still is way to much to manage and ruins the mechanics of Bunny Thumpers.

IMO: Reduce energy cost to atleast 15 energy.

1 more thing. Broken Tower and The Courtyard should stay the way they are (kill count, but find away to fix ganking). To fix the ganking switch it to 1v1. I say this, because this lowers the chance of holding builds to reach Halls. But change Halls back to the way it was before, because its a serious pain in the ass.

Thanks,

~~~~ I Pcp I

Faction Gambler · Jan 21, 2007, 03:23 AM // 03:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snype

Hoh
Murderball: A giant mess. Can't cap anything, shows no skill/teamwork. It is
like having Alliance battles be relic runs.
Kill Count: Takes all of the traditional things that players love about Halls
away. It only creates a metagame full of spikes and high pressure builds.
"King of the Hill": Just everyone running around. Makes AoE rule everything.
SUGGESTION: Make HoH the old way of holding. It was not extremely "easy"
to hold.

Broken Tower and Courtyard: Creates a giant fest of running around, or a
giant kill fest. Reduce time to 5/6 minutes, and make more of an incentive
to cap.

Burial and Scarred Earth Swap: Nice move, no suggestions.

Everything Snype said is EXACTLY what I was going to rant regarding the current HOH system. Thanks Snype!

Rieselle · Jan 21, 2007, 03:24 AM // 03:24

Regarding Murderball, I think it that if you drop it, the timer should reset and stay at 0 until someone picks it up again. So the relic will only respawn at the start if someone holds it for 60s and is killed.

That way people can pass it on to their teammates by dropping it, and giving the opposing team a chance to snatch the relic away.

Sentao Nugra · Jan 21, 2007, 06:59 AM // 06:59

Haven't had the chance to play Murderball yet, but I see the problems people are having.

The only suggestion I have from playing ATM is to make the capture points HoH battle include kills (symmetry with Courtyard and Tower) and then make points from shrines worth 2.

Edit: And change the alter times from 10 to 6 mins... it is just dragged out and we end up leaving if we are down big after 5 mins anyways.