Curse

icedwhitemocha · Feb 15, 2007, 03:49 PM // 15:49

Yeah, I'm noticing that as well. Take a reaper's mark and your choice of a spoil victor, migraine, or mor dom. Add a melee and ZB, gl hf.

urania · Feb 16, 2007, 08:21 AM // 08:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by spawnofebil

Gogo hex spam!

No, seriously, every single team that I meet in TA these days seems to be some sort of hex-pressure. I'm now seriously considering running NR/Tranq.

then run it...it helps a great deal with all that nec/mes spam around.

bungusmaximus · Feb 16, 2007, 09:21 AM // 09:21

I tried a few rounds yesterday and I noticed that almost every team (including my own) ran a BoA sin. These little buggers can get really nasty real fast as they always like to barge in when I'm busy.
Don't ask a sin to ping his build before a fight, it looks like they all run the same build.

moko · Feb 16, 2007, 10:16 AM // 10:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by bungusmaximus

I tried a few rounds yesterday and I noticed that almost every team (including my own) ran a BoA sin. These little buggers can get really nasty real fast as they always like to barge in when I'm busy.
Don't ask a sin to ping his build before a fight, it looks like they all run the same build.

i laugh at boa sins tbh. ^_^ most are terrible stupid, keep on spiking the wrong target (hexbreaker, holy veil, stances), spike while blinded, let good rangers dshot their attacks (which i often do), or generally have the wrong bar and fail at damage. gg

divert is another nice choice against all the hexes around.

(<3)

DreamRunner · Feb 16, 2007, 01:45 PM // 13:45

Ran 2 assassins, ZB and a weapon rit. Fun to play but had trouble against stance way

The we ran a SP assassin and a thumper and all was A-OK. I often team up with Durass from who is in now RezQ for TA action.

bungusmaximus · Feb 16, 2007, 01:54 PM // 13:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mokone

i laugh at boa sins tbh. ^_^ most are terrible stupid, keep on spiking the wrong target (hexbreaker, holy veil, stances), spike while blinded, let good rangers dshot their attacks (which i often do), or generally have the wrong bar and fail at damage. gg

divert is another nice choice against all the hexes around.

(<3)

That's the same with every cookie cutter build. Noobs run it and think they're good because they run it. A good player however can be dangerous with a build like that, because he can probably be dangerous with any build because he's good. There's nothing wrong with that. Easy builds give unexperienced people an opportunity to learn the ropes, same with thumpers.

Divineshadows · Feb 16, 2007, 04:35 PM // 16:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by spawnofebil

Gogo hex spam!

No, seriously, every single team that I meet in TA these days seems to be some sort of hex-pressure. I'm now seriously considering running NR/Tranq.

Eh, I was running hexes last night and after beating the same team three times with it, they metagamed against us and switched their broad head arrow ranger to an Avatar of Dwayna dervish with frenzy and pious haste. Not fun I tell you.

On top of this, teams are ever more prepared to fight hexes than they ever have been and while hex teams can power through pretty much any amount of hex removal (so long as they interrupt some of it) it is a slow and tedious grind. At the moment, I'm preferring aggressive condition builds using a linebacker and crip-shot as the anti-melee which can make aggressive pushes when you want on the turn of a dime.

As for NR/Tranq, you have to ask yourself what enchantments in TA do you really want to make last half length? Yeah, I thought so, the answer is none really. Bringing NR is enough on an oath shot bar with dust trap.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divineshadows

- Is there a dominant melee form emerging in TA? One type of melee that is getting run more than the others from the list I mentioned?

The answer still appears to be no. I would say it's about 40% sins, 30% warriors, 15% dervishes, and 15% R/W or R/P.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divineshadows

- What are the dominant forms of anti-melee templates being used now that blinding surge ang gale took such big hits?

Air eles still seem to be the most popular they just run a bit more energy management now (air attune+glyph lesser or dual attune). Necros with anti-melee curses are popular. Weapon rits were also common using warding/remedy/vengeful. Water eles make spot appearances.

moko · Feb 16, 2007, 10:27 PM // 22:27

Tranq indeed is quite useless in TA - NR is a different story.

making an oath shot trapper with NR is a waste to me, but this makes sure you get most of the spirit, whereas on my usual ranger interrupts it dies quickly, but still helps enough while it lasts.

Quote:

Eh, I was running hexes last night and after beating the same team three times with it, they metagamed against us and switched their broad head arrow ranger to an Avatar of Dwayna dervish with frenzy and pious haste. Not fun I tell you.

run until the avatar wears off?:P or just dont hex the dervish?

Quote:

On top of this, teams are ever more prepared to fight hexes than they ever have been and while hex teams can power through pretty much any amount of hex removal (so long as they interrupt some of it) it is a slow and tedious grind. At the moment, I'm preferring aggressive condition builds using a linebacker and crip-shot as the anti-melee which can make aggressive pushes when you want on the turn of a dime.

QFT. played hexway today, first game 15 mins already, resulted in a loss eventually. lol:| surely better options to farm ta - as long as you carry enough hex removals (usually purge signets, expel, divert)

Quote:

Air eles still seem to be the most popular they just run a bit more energy management now (air attune+glyph lesser or dual attune). Necros with anti-melee curses are popular. Weapon rits were also common using warding/remedy/vengeful. Water eles make spot appearances.

its either air eles that do nothing but do dual blinding with flash and surge, EDA dervs/paragons/rangers, pretty much one necro in every team, sometimes a mes (dual mes teams - migraine/inep), and the rits i hardly ever see.

Quote:

That's the same with every cookie cutter build. Noobs run it and think they're good because they run it. A good player however can be dangerous with a build like that, because he can probably be dangerous with any build because he's good. There's nothing wrong with that. Easy builds give unexperienced people an opportunity to learn the ropes, same with thumpers.

but with assasins its different, and theres just so many of them. if you play assasin and your hex gets removed, many will still do the combo, fail, and be useless. a rao thump that misses hammer bash might still do crushing and bestial, but he can still land hits after, dealing some sort of damage, whereas assasins are plain useless. some do normal attacks with their daggers, but who cares, its less damage than wandspike. :/

so yeah, considering 99% of the assasins are noobs, i laugh at them. if i notice a team (take a ta guild, or just high ranked glad pugs - friends, whatever), ill know when not to underestimate them.

Quote:

Ran 2 assassins, ZB and a weapon rit. Fun to play but had trouble against stance way The we ran a SP assassin and a thumper and all was A-OK. I often team up with Durass from who is in now RezQ for TA action.

best example^ right there...ever heard of expose defense? no? of course not, its not an actual part of the cookie cutter SP. >_> and also, note how they had no problems with a thump...not much can go wrong there.

Divineshadows · Feb 16, 2007, 10:54 PM // 22:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mokone

run until the avatar wears off?:P or just dont hex the dervish?

Oh, we tried running a lot for the avatar to wear off. Not much you can do though when the opposition has gale, hammer knockdowns, crippling sweep, and speed buffs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mokone

pretty much one necro in every team, sometimes a mes (dual mes teams - migraine/inep)

Well, after playing an ineptitude memser last night, they really aren't as strong as they used to be before Nightfall came out. I think this has to do with two factors. First, Nightfall brought several powerful hex choices, so TA teams are more prepared to deal with hexes than ever before. Spirit+price covered by p-bond just wasn't sticking consistently for me in the matches that mattered. And if those are sticking, then your energy is in trouble even with a 2nd energy management skill like leech signet. Second, blessed light monks felt the pressure from one of their teammates attacking through ineptitude or clumsiness much more so than ZB monks who can get a free heal out of it rather easily. Boon prots also had nothing on the efficiency level of ZB.

I don't know that I ever want to try an ineptitude mesmer in a build again. As far as anti-melee hexers go nothing compares in efficiency to reapers / faint / p-bond / price of failure (or reckless haste) for their capacity to reduce melee pressure while simultaneously maintaining 9 degen on 3 people.

TheTrueTroop · Feb 19, 2007, 06:17 AM // 06:17

2 Rao R/P packhunters
Weapon of Fury Ritualist
Zb

is probably the most pressure i have seen in a 4 man team in ta so far, makes monks consider taking soa/shielding hands/guardian over something like purge signet, which can leave you in a rut vs hex teams

hex teams are still prevelant, but most good teams take alot of hex removal now a days, expel/divert/2x purge signet, so they dont seem as popular as a week or two ago

but yea weapon of fury is defintely a leet melee buffer imo...

krayola red · Feb 19, 2007, 07:47 AM // 07:47

Out of curiosity, how are you guys countering rit spike? It seems like one of these groups show up at least once every few fights, and usually no one on the team is equipped to handle them. Between the sea of spirits and their constant power healing, we just can't put them down fast enough before they take someone out, and it all goes downhill from there.

bungusmaximus · Feb 19, 2007, 07:56 AM // 07:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by krayola red

Out of curiosity, how are you guys countering rit spike? It seems like one of these groups show up at least once every few fights, and usually no one on the team is equipped to handle them. Between the sea of spirits and their constant power healing, we just can't put them down fast enough before they take someone out, and it all goes downhill from there.

A thing what I know that worked is just barge in as fast as possible when theyre setting up defenses. If they got a bunch of spirits set up their defense is a lot harder to crack. Not that I always flawless them, they give me trouble from time to time too, so more tips are always welcome.

moko · Feb 19, 2007, 12:15 PM // 12:15

<- monk = ps all * or spirit bond the spike

<- warrior = chop down spirits (no spirits, no ritspike

, kill all of them, no matter how useless they are)
<- ranger = interrupt
<- mes = interrupt, unnatural sig/spiritual pain
<- derv = chop chop spirits (<3 aoe)

assasins are rather useless, others have to wandspike to help, and maybe paragons with killing spirits. once they are down their defense is gone, their healing sucks, they cant spike - or if they do, really crappy.

Quote:

Oh, we tried running a lot for the avatar to wear off. Not much you can do though when the opposition has gale, hammer knockdowns, crippling sweep, and speed buffs.

my bad ^_^

Quote:

Well, after playing an ineptitude memser last night, they really aren't as strong as they used to be before Nightfall came out. I think this has to do with two factors. First, Nightfall brought several powerful hex choices, so TA teams are more prepared to deal with hexes than ever before. Spirit+price covered by p-bond just wasn't sticking consistently for me in the matches that mattered. And if those are sticking, then your energy is in trouble even with a 2nd energy management skill like leech signet. Second, blessed light monks felt the pressure from one of their teammates attacking through ineptitude or clumsiness much more so than ZB monks who can get a free heal out of it rather easily. Boon prots also had nothing on the efficiency level of ZB.

if Migraine gets the monk, (and theres no other caster with expel/purge or whatever around), and you cant get ZB out, inep WILL hurt A LOT - faster than a reapers can degen in that time.

Quote:

2 Rao R/P packhunters
Weapon of Fury Ritualist
Zb

id really love to meet that once with my normal TA team.

sounds interesting.

Divineshadows · Feb 19, 2007, 04:33 PM // 16:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mokone

<- monk = ps all * or spirit bond the spike

Protective spirit is a bad pvp skill in comparison to spirit bond. Spirit bond still lasts 10 seconds with an enchanting mod (against some team you pull the enchanting weapon out of your pack for exactly this reason) and makes red bars go up. In order for prot spirit to outperform a 12 to 14 spec spirit bond, their damage packets have to be consistently 145+ and, well, you just don't see that kind of damage with any consistency outside of high level foes and bosses in PvE. Reversal and spirit bond are the two prots that you really want as a monk, because they make red bars go up. If you have room for a third prot, then shield of absorption is the best choice for helping to prevent red bars from going down. Whenever I face teams in TA whose damage is too reliant upon damage packets of 61+, it garners a post match comment from me of spirit bond > your build. That is to say, the build as a whole was poorly designed.

Monks that use prot spirit solely because they use frenzied defense are retards. With all the buffs to warrior stances, there is no reason not to choose skills like soldier's defense, disciplined stance, and shield bash over something stupid like frenzied defense.

The TA build I've been partial to lately has a warrior, 2 rangers, and a monk. Against rit spikes, you just keep spirit bond up on the warrior and monk in a build like that. In addition, your team should come prepared with armor types they expect to face. Seeing a lot of channeling rits in TA? Have a +10 AL v lightning shield in the pack and a +7 armor v elemental weapon.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mokone

unnatural sig/spiritual pain

Unnatural signet is still not a good counter to ranger spirits, because the spirit can be placed back a bit to where you have to extend to use it which is easy for your opponent to see. Distracting shot > unnatural signet. That said, unnatural signet is a serviceable counter to rit spirits provided that wanderlust is not up. As a mesmer with unnatural signet, inform your team to make sure to interrupt wanderlust so that you can take out the rest of the trash.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mokone

<- derv = chop chop spirits (<3 aoe)

It's not just the AoE of the scythe that makes dervishes the best spirit hunter in the game. It's the fact that spirits are low level (making your crit % ridiculous) and that scythes crit harder than anything else in the game. For extra fun, bring banishing strike if you want to holy nuke their team while you're hunting spirits.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mokone

if Migraine gets the monk, (and theres no other caster with expel/purge or whatever around), and you cant get ZB out, inep WILL hurt A LOT - faster than a reapers can degen in that time.

The only reason you would run a build in TA without some form of off-monk hex removal is because you want to set up the team for failure. The last time I ran a TA build successfully without off-monk hex removal was pre-Nightfall and that was using a blessed light monk with other non-elite hex removal in a build using NR. The last time I ran a TA build that did not use NR and without off-monk hex removal successfully was February of last year.

I recommend playing with players that only attack through ineptitude 50% or less of the time. Bad melee players are incapable of attacking one target while simultaneously keeping an eye on an ineptitude mesmer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mokone

id really love to meet that once with my normal TA team.

sounds interesting.

It's the warmonger's weapon from these highly specced channeling rits that is the real killer.

moko · Feb 19, 2007, 05:30 PM // 17:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divineshadows

Protective spirit is a bad pvp skill in comparison to spirit bond. Spirit bond still lasts 10 seconds with an enchanting mod (against some team you pull the enchanting weapon out of your pack for exactly this reason) and makes red bars go up. In order for prot spirit to outperform a 12 to 14 spec spirit bond, their damage packets have to be consistently 145+ and, well, you just don't see that kind of damage with any consistency outside of high level foes and bosses in PvE. Reversal and spirit bond are the two prots that you really want as a monk, because they make red bars go up. If you have room for a third prot, then shield of absorption is the best choice for helping to prevent red bars from going down. Whenever I face teams in TA whose damage is too reliant upon damage packets of 61+, it garners a post match comment from me of spirit bond > your build. That is to say, the build as a whole was poorly designed.

Monks that use prot spirit solely because they use frenzied defense are retards. With all the buffs to warrior stances, there is no reason not to choose skills like soldier's defense, disciplined stance, and shield bash over something stupid like frenzied defense.

The TA build I've been partial to lately has a warrior, 2 rangers, and a monk. Against rit spikes, you just keep spirit bond up on the warrior and monk in a build like that. In addition, your team should come prepared with armor types they expect to face. Seeing a lot of channeling rits in TA? Have a +10 AL v lightning shield in the pack and a +7 armor v elemental weapon.

Unnatural signet is still not a good counter to ranger spirits, because the spirit can be placed back a bit to where you have to extend to use it which is easy for your opponent to see. Distracting shot > unnatural signet. That said, unnatural signet is a serviceable counter to rit spirits provided that wanderlust is not up. As a mesmer with unnatural signet, inform your team to make sure to interrupt wanderlust so that you can take out the rest of the trash.

It's not just the AoE of the scythe that makes dervishes the best spirit hunter in the game. It's the fact that spirits are low level (making your crit % ridiculous) and that scythes crit harder than anything else in the game. For extra fun, bring banishing strike if you want to holy nuke their team while you're hunting spirits.

The only reason you would run a build in TA without some form of off-monk hex removal is because you want to set up the team for failure. The last time I ran a TA build successfully without off-monk hex removal was pre-Nightfall and that was using a blessed light monk with other non-elite hex removal in a build using NR. The last time I ran a TA build that did not use NR and without off-monk hex removal successfully was February of last year.

I recommend playing with players that only attack through ineptitude 50% or less of the time. Bad melee players are incapable of attacking one target while simultaneously keeping an eye on an ineptitude mesmer.

It's the warmonger's weapon from these highly specced channeling rits that is the real killer.

i know that PS sucks, but so many people are running it, especially the frenzied idiots (yeah i hate it as well but im usually forced to play it -.-)

as you said, spirit bond ftw.

its always on my bar, except when im forced to play the crappy frenzied. :>

for the unnatural/spiritual - i know theres better ways, but i just TRIED to list a way how to counter ritspike. killing the spirits is usuaully the best way (besides preventing them being placed in the first place)

i know its not only the aoe, but it really helps if they dont care about placement or bunch up, so its really fun to take 3 spirits each hit and go onto the next.

Quote:

The only reason you would run a build in TA without some form of off-monk hex removal is because you want to set up the team for failure. The last time I ran a TA build successfully without off-monk hex removal was pre-Nightfall and that was using a blessed light monk with other non-elite hex removal in a build using NR. The last time I ran a TA build that did not use NR and without off-monk hex removal successfully was February of last year.

i usually run a teambuild without anything of that daily. i just trust our blinder and ranger enough to keep everything off me which is going to hurt.

Quote:

It's the warmonger's weapon from these highly specced channeling rits that is the real killer.

oh right, in that case im not really keen on meeting them.

edit: ugh im dual quoting already x_x