Curse

Cass · Feb 12, 2007, 12:24 PM // 12:24

Yeah, one killcount is more than enough. Keep Broken Tower killcount if you must, but make Courtyard an Altar cap map again.

Well while I am at it: Killcount is a bad mechanic. As everyone has said, you can only spike. A possible solution: prevent one team getting 'farmed'-- no free resses and possibly keep DP. DP should be everywhere, except maybe in pre-sear, but certainly in HA. This simple fix will alleviate most of the problems with this game mode.

The Silver Star · Feb 12, 2007, 02:10 PM // 14:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lorekeeper

Rotation would then look like this

underworld - 1vs1 deathmatch
burial mounds - 1vs1 deathmatch with priest rez
broken tower - capture the point 1vs1vs1 or 1vs1 (i think 1vs1)
unholy temples - relic run
dark chambers - 1vs1 deathmatch with priest rez
courtyard - 1vs1vs1 altar holding
sacred temples - relic run
HOH - murder ball/capture the point/kill count/king of the hill

I agree with you however, i think there needs to be a new map possibly a 1v1v1 Killcount to replace scared, also i highlighted the HoH part because one of the mai nreasons i dont like HA as it is is because of the changes to Halls itself apart from the new chest. So all thumbs up except i really enjoyed HoH as an alter match, and no i didnt like it like this because "You can like old 4 eva and teh noobs cant kill u coz ur build is so 1337 liek". For me the whole fun of HoH was holding againt great teams however, i think one reason they changed the victory conditions in HA itself was because of people holding for a long time. HA being an Alter Match asnt the problem imo the problem was that.

1. There were builds eg Mystic Wrath Spike which were very hard to counter 100% even if you had NR you had to heavily rely on the other team to have NR aswell to be sure for there bonds to drop.
2. Lots of the "good" players left due to changes in HA making it much much easier for the remaining "good" players to hold as the competition was not as hard.
3. There were/are a lot of skills not from Prohpecies mainly due to Nightfall that are inbalanced to a certain extent.

Bastian · Feb 12, 2007, 03:00 PM // 15:00

Viva La 8v8!

I love having 8v8 back. I could acually care less about the game mechanics and how they keep them. The kill counts weren't that much of a problem with a balanced team. Tactics FTW! Honestly, the kill counts are all about not getting ganked by two teams, and then ganking the team that presents the most problems. I think people stayed away from us because we were running 2 mesmers anyways.

As far as spikes are concerned... interrupts ftw? Spikes will fail if you can get in and pressure them while interrupting a fair amount of spikes + a good infuser. If you are timid vs spike, well then, good game. Chances are someones gonna die in the initial part of the pressure. Res anyone? Also, what happened to fertile + oath shot? If you think 90% of teams are spike, bring counters!

The only spike I have had consistent problems against are Rit Spike. All their pain in the ass spirits and their constant spiking with 700+ dmg spikes. But, whatever, I'm not gonna meet 'em on every match, and if they spike sloppy, then I still have a chance to infuse.

8v8 is better. Keep it. Balanced has much more possibilites. Iway is dead anyways, it is little more than a balanced team with really poor healing. Aegis chain anyone? OoA? Interrupts?

As for bloodspike, if you can interrupt 1 or 2 spikers, then an infuser will have a chance every time. Most bloodspikes can't even get off clean spikes if you pressure them enough. Remember spikers are also the monks.

Viva la 8v8!

Effendi Westland · Feb 12, 2007, 03:57 PM // 15:57

Keep 6v6

Keep Kill-count

With 8v8 we'll eventually see the return of the extremely skilled 3 monk backlines and then HA will end up in the semi-deserted state it was before 6v6, simply because it won't attract new players.

6v6 did bring new players to HA, 8v8 will scare new players away.

Cass · Feb 12, 2007, 03:59 PM // 15:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Effendi Westland

Keep 6v6

Keep Kill-count

With 8v8 we'll eventually see the return of the extremely skilled 3 monk backlines and then HA will end up in the semi-deserted state it was before 6v6.

LOL +1 for irony there, well done.

Bread Fan · Feb 12, 2007, 06:00 PM // 18:00

How can some of you not grasp the fact that kill count has to go? I will say it again, with 8v8 (and current mechanics) you CAN'T run degen. You can try and run balance but with 3way a good spike is going to come out on top.

I am guilty yes, I ran rit spike on the weekend (although a different variation than others) and no one touched us. Ganking the less experienced team on broken and courtyard was key especially when they would forget their ghost respawned. Murderball was a pain in the ass although we did have some speed buffs but with a siphon speed sin and trident it was to much, although close.

I seen Izzy playing on Saturday although I didn't get the opportunity to play him, I hope he realized that 8v8 is better and the mechanics need to be changed back.

tomcruisejr · Feb 12, 2007, 06:59 PM // 18:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Horace The Great

No, I don't play spike because I need large amount of fame or because i have low fame.

I play spike because of the killcount, if you dont play spike their you mostly loose.

So remove fame? no...
Remove killcount? yes...

tell me again why you play and want to win in HA..

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bread Fan

I seen Izzy playing on Saturday although I didn't get the opportunity to play him, I hope he realized that 8v8 is better and the mechanics need to be changed back.

we vsed his team with his select pick ups. they played balanced stance fear me wars, pwned us and i wondered,

"why did he nerf RaO when he can nerf balanced stance"

Thee La Vien · Feb 12, 2007, 07:31 PM // 19:31

6v6 and 8v8 should be decided on how many people like them
and tbh it dosnt matter all that much

although i agree with most that kill count should be taken out
if it was removed then people would have to make more diverse builds
to be able to run relic have equal damage and defense and have a good tactical split for capture maps

or if u rlly want kill count that badly make it 1vs1
so pressure teams at least have a shot

my opinion 6v6 should come back

ksalanpang · Feb 12, 2007, 07:35 PM // 19:35

It's not solely 8 vs 8 favors spike. It's the kill count format + 8 vs 8 make spike teams favor spike.

I mean it's fine with Anet to make HA a spike arena...just in the long run less people will play in HA.

I'd rather GVG if I want to play in a balanced team.

Acidic Won · Feb 12, 2007, 07:38 PM // 19:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thee La Vien

6v6 and 8v8 should be decided on how many people like them
and tbh it dosnt matter all that much

although i agree with most that kill count should be taken out
if it was removed then people would have to make more diverse builds
to be able to run relic have equal damage and defense and have a good tactical split for capture maps

or if u rlly want kill count that badly make it 1vs1
so pressure teams at least have a shot

my opinion 6v6 should come back

6v6 Vien? How could you? You once meant something to me. GG. 8v8 should stay, remove kill count or reduce it to 1v1.

Ponidis · Feb 12, 2007, 10:03 PM // 22:03

A rough poll in our guild showed that 6 out of 7 people prefer 6v6. I agree! 8v8 is a practical nightmare: finding 8 skilled people, fine tuning their builds and discussing details is time consuming. Note that my guild occasionally captures the Hall, so it's not like we're new to this.

The kill count is much better than the altar cap, though. Sheer luck could let you win the altar, while the kill count is much more closely associated to team skill. I would like the duration to be a little shorter, though: getting to the hall is now a very lengthy process!!

Lord Mendes · Feb 12, 2007, 10:21 PM // 22:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ponidis

A rough poll in our guild showed that 6 out of 7 people prefer 6v6. I agree!

A rough poll in your guild also showed that 6 out of 7 people have never played 8v8 HA and have no idea what they are talking about.

I'm sorry, I just couldn't help it.

As for the entire 6v6 vs 8v8, it doesn't frigging matter. Before Anet finds balance in terms of offense and defence required, HA will always suxxors...

Cass · Feb 12, 2007, 10:37 PM // 22:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ponidis

A rough poll in our guild showed that 6 out of 7 people prefer 6v6. I agree! 8v8 is a practical nightmare: finding 8 skilled people, fine tuning their builds and discussing details is time consuming. Note that my guild occasionally captures the Hall, so it's not like we're new to this.

The kill count is much better than the altar cap, though. Sheer luck could let you win the altar, while the kill count is much more closely associated to team skill. I would like the duration to be a little shorter, though: getting to the hall is now a very lengthy process!!

A rough poll in our guild showed that 14 out of 15 people prefer 8v8. I agree!

...

llsektorll · Feb 12, 2007, 10:42 PM // 22:42

keep 8v8 more variety

Alleji · Feb 12, 2007, 10:52 PM // 22:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cass

Well while I am at it: Killcount is a bad mechanic. As everyone has said, you can only spike. A possible solution: prevent one team getting 'farmed'-- no free resses and possibly keep DP. DP should be everywhere, except maybe in pre-sear, but certainly in HA. This simple fix will alleviate most of the problems with this game mode.

I'd /sign under that.

Old 8v8 = good
6v6 = bad
Killcount = meh
Killcount + 6v6 = meh
Killcount + 8v8 = bad
Me = /rage

Hambones · Feb 13, 2007, 02:36 AM // 02:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alleji

Old 8v8 = good
6v6 = bad
Killcount = meh
Killcount + 6v6 = meh
Killcount + 8v8 = bad
Me = /rage

exactly how i feel..

Thom Bangalter · Feb 13, 2007, 02:54 AM // 02:54

I love the new HA. It's better than every single HA incarnation.

defrule · Feb 13, 2007, 03:29 AM // 03:29

David Holtzman once said this and it was to do with either heroes or 6v6, I can't remember.

"Fixing the broken leg by breaking the other."

However, now ArenaNet fixed the broken leg then broke the other.

--------------------------

Kill count simple discourages the whole line of play of shutdown and stuff which we had under the old 8v8 system. Take migraine mesmers, what is the point in them now? To win Underworld and Burial Mounds and gimp yourself in Broken Tower?

Suggestion: Bring back the old 8v8 system but keep the new Hall chest.

Melody Cross · Feb 13, 2007, 05:13 AM // 05:13

Hello

I played some HA for a while today and I wanted to say that it is much more fun than it was 6v6. That’s just how I feel and I guess other people disagree, but I actually enjoyed myself in HA for the first time in a very very long while.

All thoughts of tactics and stuff aside for a minute, I enjoyed myself in HA while I played this evening. Isn’t that the point though? A game is supposed to be fun and HA has not been fun for me for quite some time.

I hope they keep it 8v8 and make some more changes so that HA can be more balanced for different types of play. It will be more fun when people can play pressure again too.

I think it would be a good idea to change the shape of Halls for the type of game that is being played. Right now, a lot of problems when we reached halls came--seemed to come--from the ground we were standing on as much as the builds we faced. One map is just too rigid for all those different types of playstyle.

But I do like the different conditions for winning halls. It makes the game more than just “wait till the 2:minute mark” that I remember.

Anyway, ty for a fun evening of 8v8.

GGs

PS I GvG mostly now so maybe I’m not qualified to speak but I just wanted to share my opinion.

masta_yoda · Feb 13, 2007, 05:25 AM // 05:25

HA is kind of like the Coke incident i remember. Coke tried to change its formula for a "New" and better taste infact they made it worse(all starting from 6v6). Now they keep trying to patch things up and its not doing any good. Coke eventually went back to the old formula because of people hating the "New" formula. Coke can change, but why not anet?