Curse

maraxusofk · Feb 11, 2007, 04:46 AM // 04:46

I used to be the biggest supporter of 8v8 ever since the change to 6v6 was mad.e however, now im not so sure. almsot every single pug i see is for iway. i mean i dont really care about fame but 8v8 matches take slightly more time for most part (about 20 seconds) cuz of 2 added ppl having rez. still 8v8 is classic so i cant diss that.

i like 6v6 cuz its smaller and faster, but there are less pugs that are avaible for a short time. spikie teams are relaly pwerful in 8v8. however, iway also sucks super bad in 8v8 kill count.

i have mixed opinions now...... cant say i like one over the other. still i think the fairest solution would be switch every month?

deluxe · Feb 11, 2007, 04:50 AM // 04:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rahja the Thief

and the trolls march on and on and on! /feedthetrolls.

I like 8v8, I like running spikes, I like going against spikes. 6v6 was complete BS soul reaping exploitation. No thanks!

you guys were probably running the worst spike we've encountered all day, gratz for that

(flawlessed twice)

Rustjive · Feb 11, 2007, 04:51 AM // 04:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snype

GvG, in my opinion, is much more primitive gameplay.

3 letters for you

T T N

Apple · Feb 11, 2007, 04:52 AM // 04:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by snype

GvG, in my opinion, is much more primitive gameplay. Although tactics are vital, the match is more about out pressuring the other team then fulfilling a goal. In HA however, there is always a goal (get relic, cap altar, kill ghost, etc.) that will either cause your team to win or give them a strong advantage. This calls for MUCH more tactic calling, and can change the outcome of the game. In HA a team can have a build that is completely at a disadvantage from the other, and still win from tactics.

Wow. Just wow.

-Loki- · Feb 11, 2007, 04:53 AM // 04:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snype

GvG, in my opinion, is much more primitive gameplay. Although tactics are vital, the match is more about out pressuring the other team then fulfilling a goal. In HA however, there is always a goal (get relic, cap altar, kill ghost, etc.) that will either cause your team to win or give them a strong advantage. This calls for MUCH more tactic calling, and can change the outcome of the game. In HA a team can have a build that is completely at a disadvantage from the other, and still win from tactics.

Tell me, have you ever played below rank 1000?

B Ephekt · Feb 11, 2007, 05:09 AM // 05:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snype

GvG, in my opinion, is much more primitive gameplay.

Thanks for this nugget of comedy. Nobody even has to flame the IWAYer when you make posts like this.

Punji · Feb 11, 2007, 05:18 AM // 05:18

This weekend I saw Esoteric Warriors team playing air spike. If even the best guys have to resort to spike something must be wrong. Whatever the party size, more map variety and different win conditions would not hurt. In this way only the best team-work (not individual play) should win. I can admit that don't mind losing because my team got outplayed by the others, but I hate losing because of events beyond my team's control, such as being ganked at kill count.

Alleji · Feb 11, 2007, 05:28 AM // 05:28

This is f*cktarded.

Old 8v8 > 6v6 > 321 8v8

The kill count maps screw everything over. 90% of kill counts I played were 2 spike teams farming some nubtrash for points and occasionally spiking each other... if you build to counter spike in 1v1, you're gonna get rolled by 2 spikes in a kill count map... or the spike team will farm the heroway team and get more kills than you. So, you have no choice but to run the fastest-recharging spike possible, which means everyone with half a brain is running a spike with a 5s recharge and everyone without half a brain is running nubway and gets farmed by spike.

GG anet.

zakaria · Feb 11, 2007, 05:55 AM // 05:55

pressure balanced teams doesn't have much chance against all this spike

, even forming IWAY and VIMWAY have been disappeared from there beacause everybody is rolling rit spike or Bspike.

Infusing doesn't do much good against 8 spikers, the dmg output is insane and spiking teams targeting balanced in 3 team maps beacuase it's faster to score kills from you rather from the other spiking team because it will gona be slower...i have never saw this much spike in HA before, they are forcing you to play spiking all the way

Darkpower Alchemist · Feb 11, 2007, 06:21 AM // 06:21

I've mentioned this before. ANet has made the turn towards actually killing opponents instead of holding them off. 30 minute games of layered enchantments and single kills won't get you the win in any form of PvP currently in use. Have fun crying about the good old days.

Ensign · Feb 11, 2007, 06:25 AM // 06:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR

Ok, fill me in, I don't get it.

How is spike good in 8v8?

Spike has a low infrastructure requirement that lets you overload on defense while still scoring kills. It also ignores most of the defenses the other team can put up, only leaving reation time and a few forms of carefully placed disruption relevant. The defense, in a straight fight, will usually provide enough defense that you can withstand pressure until you get lucky and score a kill. From that point forward kills become easier, that guy can be killed even with a spiker shut down.

The reason spike loses in GvG comes from it being rather poor in a split (as they can't pressure, spike, or put up any kind of offense if they have to pull offense back to defend), and it having to sacrifice a character to run flags oftentimes. It's much harder to spike with 6 or 7 guys, let alone the 5 guys you often have if you're running flags against a split team.

In HA though, you have to fight people, which gives them a full 8 players worth of spikers and defense, and, well, we've seen how that plays out. They never have to split up or run defense, you have to fight them straight up. Plus, of course, those builds have natural advantages on altar (massive defense) and killcount (spike gets stronger while doubleteaming someone, you won't have your kills stolen/you can steal kills). I don't know why you wouldn't run some variety of strong spike in 8v8 HA, it's just the best build available against the teams that actually matter.

Peace,
-CxE

JR · Feb 11, 2007, 07:46 AM // 07:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

...

That's all fairly obvious, and not really the point. I can't remember the last time I played a spike in GvG that wasn't beatable 8v8, just with pressure and disruption. Therefore I don't see how spike is apparently so difficult to beat in HA (other than the valid argument Tiyuri made). If spike is big then you take Cry's, Distracting Blows... you don't lose to it.

Mourne · Feb 11, 2007, 08:42 AM // 08:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR

Ok, fill me in, I don't get it.

How is spike good in 8v8? Do people not take disruption? Do infusers suck? It absolutely boggles my mind how it apparently destroys teams in HA, yet is nothing but a weak gimmick everywhere else.

Why was MH losing to some spikes today

, granted they were winning most.

Black Strobe · Feb 11, 2007, 09:17 AM // 09:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR

If spike is big then you take Cry's, Distracting Blows... you don't lose to it.

But you also don't win. It makes no sense to shut down 1 spiketeam in 1v1v1, while the other spike is just scoring kills on your team or the one you try to shut down.

In fact - with the current objectives on Broken, Court and HoH - you have to be an idiot NOT running a very fast spike by yourself. You need to pew pew people as fast as possible.

What I don't understand tough is why some people that try run "balanced" still use 3 Monks.

CassiusDrehyg · Feb 11, 2007, 09:26 AM // 09:26

Here's a home truth:

The people currently requesting 6v6 are those people who never got past Burial Mounds last time it was 8v8.

Anyway, 8v8 should be here to stay. Remove the kill count mechanics and you have an arena that's really worth playing.

DreamWind · Feb 11, 2007, 09:28 AM // 09:28

8v8 is better than 6v6. Now that I have cleared that up, on to the maps...

I think the funniest thing is the fact that old holding altar maps were removed in order to create a better metagame, but instead with kill count maps we have the worst HA metagame in quite a while. Spike dominates. Period.

As has been mentioned here before, spike builds are overpowered in multiway killcount maps. The HA metagame says you either run a spike build or you play something inferior. Crap meta.

Bring back the old altars and more 1v1 matches before HoH. I would be fine with all the old maps back personally. If any change should stay though, I would leave HoH map as a random objective and see if that helps. But all the multiway and killcount maps before HoH have got to go IMO.

Black Strobe · Feb 11, 2007, 09:36 AM // 09:36

6v6 fits alot better to the changed objectives in HA.

Nadia Roark · Feb 11, 2007, 09:38 AM // 09:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alleji

This is f*cktarded.

Old 8v8 > 6v6 > 321 8v8

The kill count maps screw everything over. 90% of kill counts I played were 2 spike teams farming some nubtrash for points and occasionally spiking each other... if you build to counter spike in 1v1, you're gonna get rolled by 2 spikes in a kill count map... or the spike team will farm the heroway team and get more kills than you. So, you have no choice but to run the fastest-recharging spike possible, which means everyone with half a brain is running a spike with a 5s recharge and everyone without half a brain is running nubway and gets farmed by spike.

GG anet.

QFT.

I'd like someone to explain this to me:

The big complaint about 6v6 was that it was difficult to build utility into balanced builds (not like most of you ran balanced to begin with, but it apparently didn't stop you from complaining about it); and that build diversity was hampered by the fact that you could only pack 6 elites and a very limited amount of utility. Why would ANet move back to 8v8 on these grounds and then eliminate the wide majority of viable builds (i.e. non spike builds) by changing the map mechanics so that degen/pressure/lifesteal builds cannot possibly win kill counts?

Pressure builds cannot win altars. Bspike has a hard time because it doesn't deal damage. Degen builds--be they hex builds, condition builds, or both--are likewise out the window because it takes too long for them to kill. I daresay the kill count mechanic eliminates build possibilities every bit as much as the 6v6 switch did.

One of three things needs to happen:

Drop Killcounts.
Restore Spiritual Pain to its original functionality.
Grossly increase the aftercast or reduce the damage of rit spike skills.

Failing any of these, there is no reason for any sane person to run anything other than rit spike. It gets a great defensive benefit from spirits, and (unless both teams have the sense to gank them, and even then there's no guarantee) they should win just about every time and on every map save possibly relic runs. Unlike the apparent majority of the GwG forum population, I will not fault ANet for trying these new changes/skillbalance--but I will go on the record as being violently against the current map mechanics and the metagame it blatantly promotes.

MilesG · Feb 11, 2007, 09:57 AM // 09:57

Omg, I want to marry 8v8. It's like 100000 wetdreams all at once.

Hey nadia.

AYss · Feb 11, 2007, 10:15 AM // 10:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by End Of The World

I think big guilds love 8v8 because of this:

-8v8 make groups more difficult to form
->So more pugs
->More crappy teams (iway, bad spikes, ...)
->Easier Fame farming.

Maybe big guilds love 8v8, but I don't think that they are the only ones. QuCo has 22 people atm, of which ~17 are active... I guess it is not a big guild, is it?

... and wtf is wrong with you people talking about iway all the time? Have you met any? I actually did meet one iway team and true, they got owned in under 2 minutes. But the number of crappy teams was 1000% bigger when 6v6 was introduced together with so-called heroway. Believe me, I like current state of HA more.