Curse

Ecko- · Feb 10, 2007, 02:19 AM // 02:19

There will always be gimmicks...if you nerf IWAY anymore..Anet would have to outright delete the skill. 8v8 is far superior to 6v6..You would not be whining about IWAY, blood spike, etc. If you would take a few skills with you to stop them. It's easy.

bhavv · Feb 10, 2007, 02:22 AM // 02:22

Erm, anyone noticed Icy Veins and Invoke Lightning spikes yet?

As Soon as 8v8 started tonight I joined up with a couple of people of my friends list, one for IWAY which I only played cos my friend wanted to, then for invoke lightning, which pretty much demolished everything except icy veins and rangers. We ran 5 invokers, a water snarer and 2 monks. Healing was fine as we had a couple of emos with HP and heal other. Oh, and lets not forget the overbuffed lightning hammer.

If any spike is more powerful then old skool blood or ranger spike, its imbalanced.

Hello 6v6, please come back.

Oh btw im pretty much set to get my R7 this weekend, and that is wrong because I am a noob. Therefore 8v8 is bad.

You may argue that skill balances will sort this out, Icy veins deffinately needs a longer recharge, but what is there too nerf about invoke lightning that will still keep it better then chain lightning? Nothing really unless they nerf chain lightning too.

Tiyuri · Feb 10, 2007, 02:55 AM // 02:55

Ran balanced all night, beat rit spike, beat invoke spike, rolled iway, beat necro spike. Fought around 50-60% of my matches vs balanced builds.

Had a lot of fun, actually worth playing again.

Some things are clearly overpowered though and need a skill balance, some variations of the rit spike spike more often than old school ranger spike did and do more damage, which is clearly overpowered.

Most of the problems with HA right now can be fixed with a skill balance, the mechanics themselves are fun again.

That said, I'd like to see kill counts go 1 on 1, they're a mess, 3 way favours spike teams who can spike, run away, spike, run away. Or rit spikes that can pump out spikes every 4 seconds or so.

Overall, 8v8 is fun again. But needs some small changes to make it great.

Blame the Monks · Feb 10, 2007, 02:58 AM // 02:58

8v8 sucks. Spikes or gimmicks, just as it has always been. 6v6 please.

Tiyuri · Feb 10, 2007, 03:04 AM // 03:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blame the Monks

8v8 sucks. Spikes or gimmicks, just as it has always been. 6v6 please.

Because 6v6 had no gimmicks at all right?

I fought a lot of balanced teams today, in a few hours. I haven't played a single balanced team all week with 6v6.

Craero · Feb 10, 2007, 03:18 AM // 03:18

So you all say 8v8 is spikes and Iway only. Now in comparison your "Godly Balanced 6v6" had about 60% of builds as spikes (I'm counting pushing 3 buttons for 105 AOE damage and poision in rapid succesion and then covering it with scourge healing and mass degen as a spike: Here's to you Jagged Bones) and Zergway and Sandstorm Balanced were running amok. Onto abuse of Soul Reaping: That started with jagged bones... now it's turned into 24 necros in HoH running icy veins with infinite energy from spirit/minion deaths even without Jagged Bones. This never happened in the old 8v8 because: People had never bothered with it as much before then as when it became an easy way to fame farm in 6v6. Blood Spike/Icy Veins/FoC took advantage of it some.... but didn't pimp it out so much it should have worn a dress. You want a simple solution to the spike problems... quit bringing 8 necromancers, don't bring a spirit spamming rit, bring fertile season, and put infuse health on a monks skill bar. Half of the "Unstoppable" spikes I've seen have taken 3 or 4 seconds to finish and have barely killed their target at that. That also cuts down on soul raping to the point where they gain.... that's right only 1/3rd to half of the energy that they were previously getting from this skill.

This only applies to non-Altar maps. In their current form altar maps are nothing but a kill fest and you currently can't trust the other team to stay alive agianst a spike.

Divinus Stella · Feb 10, 2007, 03:20 AM // 03:20

They did balance the 2 things they expected to be abused in 8v8 (paragons and grenth) so in that respect anet did a good job, but soul reaping is still being ignored, altho once this 8v8 event is over i think its gonna be even clearer for anet, just remove soul reaping from spirits.

Tucks · Feb 10, 2007, 03:43 AM // 03:43

Well, after the first session in HA i have enjoyed in months i am really hoping 8v8 stays.

However, there are still some issues. My current gripes are: Certain spike builds (Rit spike) and broken tower. Lets face it, 3 way matches before halls are just retarded, they encourage lame tactics and the level of skill needed to win them isn't increased. An example of the lameness of 3 way games is this: Our balanced, OG spike and some heroway vs each other, the heroway and the blood spike rush each other and the blood spike managed to score 7 kills before we got there, then after resing both teams ended up ganking us, giving us little chance to score our kills.

In what part of that game were we outplayed by skill?

I got the pleasure of a 1v1 broken tower match today as well, that was a lot of fun.

8v8 HA offers a much more balanced game play overall, and with a few skill changes it could be great again.

Lykan · Feb 10, 2007, 04:55 AM // 04:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blame the Monks

8v8 sucks. Spikes or gimmicks, just as it has always been. 6v6 please.

Gotta quote this again because its hilarious.

There were no spikes and gimmicks in 6v6 then?
8v8 gives you more ways to counter said gimmicks.

(well it would once they get rid of stupid kill count)

gasmaskman · Feb 10, 2007, 05:03 AM // 05:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jessyi

8v8 fails just as hard as it used to.

I've heard just as many 8v8 supporters shouting out about "utility" as well, but surprise surprise the vast bulk of the teams in 8v8 HA are right back to the same IGAY and shitspike that used to run rampant. It would be charitable to call it a "prediction" that people would just use the 2 additional slots to pack in some more gimmicky crap. It's just history repeating itself.

I'm not about to wade into the gimmick/IWAY/bspike vs. balanced debate. IWAY and bspike are a shit that needs wiping up, and there's no two ways about that. Playing against this garbage isn't fun when you see it 98% of the time. Why do people play it so much? Well, because it works.

I'm no scrub, at the end of the day, winning is what matters. However playing in a skilless, repetitive environment at the cost of the game's integrity (a game I in general happen to enjoy) is unacceptable. Support 6v6.

-Jessyi

And you've failed to realize the this is how HA has always been.

Support 8v8. "Balanced" works there.

Bspike is so much more fun than Jagged Bones, and IWAY blows the crap out of the new spirit spam.

Master Ketsu · Feb 10, 2007, 05:05 AM // 05:05

8v8 is awesome and godly. never change it back anet.

B Ephekt · Feb 10, 2007, 05:09 AM // 05:09

Tonight was my first time playing in over a month (due to the horrible state of pvp in this game). I came back for some 8v8 and thoroughly enjoyed myself. I ran a balanced build with guildies and friends and was refreshed to see something other than spirit spam, grenth train, sandstorm shitting all over the place. In the few hours I played I faced quite a few balanced builds as well.

Sorry to be blunt, but the people crying about gimmicks come off as scrubs. 8v8 is good for this game, and yes, the two extra character slots do allow for a lot more creativity. In all your wisdom, perhaps use some common sense and realize that the meta game hasn't settled yet - being the first night of the test and all. There was a lot of balanced in the old 8v8 HA, it will come back as people get the novelty of running their favorite gimmicks out their system.

Please keep 8v8, 6v6 ruined an otherwise fun arena.

Zuranthium · Feb 10, 2007, 05:17 AM // 05:17

I played HA for a few hours tonight...the first time in over a month.

I didn't like it. But I've been long bored of HA anyway, not sure what it would take to make it interesting for me.

The only real difference I see is that it takes longer to form groups than in 6v6 HA. Matches did seem longer too. So, basically, you're wasting more time. No thanks.

~Z

Blame the Monks · Feb 10, 2007, 06:00 AM // 06:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tiyuri

Because 6v6 had no gimmicks at all right?

Noobs will always run gimmicks. The only issue is what the format encourages, and as tonight proves, 8v8 ha promotes spikes.

Riotgear · Feb 10, 2007, 06:11 AM // 06:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blame the Monks

Noobs will always run gimmicks. The only issue is what the format encourages, and as tonight proves, 8v8 ha promotes spikes.

More players = Bigger spike, of course it promotes spike.

The fact that Rit spike, Icy Veins spike, and SR-fueled necros spewing spells out of their secondary are dominating should have been predictable from the fact that they were working extremely well even in 6v6.

You can also blame the 10 second rule for spike, since the easiest way to pack the most damage in 10 seconds is to just take their entire bar off at once.

Nurse With Wound · Feb 10, 2007, 07:08 AM // 07:08

I have played almost whole night in guild team, and with friends. We we running balanced pressure build as well as pure spike. I have to say that I enjoyed HA for the first time in months. I was even happy when we faced first iway PUG for months... Brings back old memories

.

PUG HA is alive again. People are actually forming teams.

To those that cry about gimmicks - your memory is very short, 6v6 was about gimmicks as well ( zergway, spirit spam, jagged ), those were just different gimmicks, but certainly not better. I really hate scrubs that proclaim themselves as "build quality inspectors", and will undoubtly start to cry about IWAY, spikes and whatnot again. People are playing what they like to play, and 8 man parties are allowing to bring more counters to various gimmicks. Simple as that... If you're still unnable to counter them, and come here crying for help, maybe pvp isnt the best choice for you.

I have seen that spikes are kinda dominant at the moment, but its direct influence of 3vs3 killcount. Theres no better way to ensure the kill is fast and yours than spiking someone down. With this mode involved, theres really no need to run shutdown/ degen builds, simply because when you will spent time draining the opposite teams out of energy, someone will be spiking them down in much faster and effective way.

Overall, after around 7 hours of playing I have to say, THUMBS UP , but reconsiver 3 way killcounts please.

8vs8 was, is, and will be FTW

Edit -> this will be our "official" current test week feedback. All other threads will be closed.

Destined to Chaos · Feb 10, 2007, 08:28 AM // 08:28

8vs8 was, is, and will be FTW../agreed

6v6 was all gimmicks...8v8 ofc is similar and ppl will find a Fotm build but thats GW (and all online games ive ever played)
People study game mechanics and form gimmick builds ...

Surly you can see no matter what form the teams take it will always be this way.

In 9 hours of HA i encountered many different builds...alot of spikes, Iway, balanced...even saw some mesmers for a change..Played in PUGS, Guild group's and with friends...

All in all id say TY anet for bringing HA back to the masses that want to play it 8v8..

Activity shows that its far more popular than 6v6...even with elite areas open with double drops etc

ppl crowded into HA...where no Double fame or other reward had been brought in..just the love of HA 8v8..

Plz dont take it back to 6v6 ...so limited in scope 6 player teams.

God Apprentice · Feb 10, 2007, 08:57 AM // 08:57

You know since you all knew 8v8 was coming back this weekend you should have EXPECTED IWAY and Bloodspike. Yes, you knew it was gonna come back, so whats the QQing about it here on the forum about?

Oh and about 8v8 vs 6v6

6v6 International Districts: 2-3

8v8 International Districts: Earlier today I seen 7

And I couldn't get into ID1, just like the old 8v8

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

Erm, anyone noticed Icy Veins and Invoke Lightning spikes yet?

As Soon as 8v8 started tonight I joined up with a couple of people of my friends list, one for IWAY which I only played cos my friend wanted to, then for invoke lightning, which pretty much demolished everything except icy veins and rangers. We ran 5 invokers, a water snarer and 2 monks. Healing was fine as we had a couple of emos with HP and heal other. Oh, and lets not forget the overbuffed lightning hammer.

If any spike is more powerful then old skool blood or ranger spike, its imbalanced.

Hello 6v6, please come back.

Oh btw im pretty much set to get my R7 this weekend, and that is wrong because I am a noob. Therefore 8v8 is bad.

You may argue that skill balances will sort this out, Icy veins deffinately needs a longer recharge, but what is there too nerf about invoke lightning that will still keep it better then chain lightning? Nothing really unless they nerf chain lightning too.

Chain Lightning was nerfed a long time ago. It causes Exhaustion and is a 3 second cast now. That is interupt fodder.

windcaller · Feb 10, 2007, 09:05 AM // 09:05

if only they would buff the mesmer so i can actually get a group...i thought 8v8 would bring my mesmer on the 'want' list. Seems it didn't.

anyways, to be on-topic: indeed 8v8 is the real HA. 6v6 is, imo, just another TA

about gimmicks: there will always be gimmicks, no matter how big the party.

Zeldawind · Feb 10, 2007, 09:25 AM // 09:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nurse With Wound

I have seen that spikes are kinda dominant at the moment, but its direct influence of 3vs3 killcount. Theres no better way to ensure the kill is fast and yours than spiking someone down. With this mode involved, theres really no need to run shutdown/ degen builds, simply because when you will spent time draining the opposite teams out of energy, someone will be spiking them down in much faster and effective way.

QFT, it was quit anoying the 3 way kill count.

Spike teams just use the hit and run tactics. Which is quit bad for a pressure build because they kill slow and increase the pressure so in resulting the monks ot break up. Whit hit and run you can't build up the pressure long enough to score kills so this means that pressure teams are put in a disadvantage.

What you can do is make it 1 vs 1, bring the back altar capping mechanic whit 3 way or make it 1 way again. Or make the maps smaller so teams can't use the hit and run tactic. Although i self don't really like the last suggestion.