Curse

baaba · Feb 20, 2007, 07:51 AM // 07:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patccmoi

Problem i see is that spike teams are amongst the best altar holders. They have lots of defense in there.

But then again, if they're using their energy to spike, they're not using it to hold, and without a truly solid backline they might just crack trying to tank 2 teams while getting some kills.

That's why everyone is running Rit spike.

If Anet really want to give love to kill count that much (it seems like they do), they need to make it 1 vs 1.

Everyone is going for the weakest team. It is like gang raping that team and see who got the most kills out of them. LOL! Sometimes I really feel sorry for that team.

Master Ketsu · Feb 20, 2007, 04:30 PM // 16:30

I tested it too when running a rit spike. This is what could be happening:

Scenario:
Team 1: Randomway Pug Lambslaughter that happened to have a decent infuser.
Team 2: Boa Sin / Ele Nuke Sinspike pressure build.
Team 3: Us ( Rit spike )
Me: Martyr Ritualist.

Team3: Spikes random pve ele in Team1. Deal about 400 damage - Infuse - Deal 300 damage. Target is barely alive, escapes and gets healed.

4 seconds later: Boa sin spikes the same ele.

Me: Gaze the ele at the last part of the boa sin spike. Point goes to us.

That being said, theres probobly some other bugs from what I hear from other people. But this is what Ive seen.

Patccmoi · Feb 20, 2007, 05:10 PM // 17:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Ketsu

I tested it too when running a rit spike. This is what could be happening:

Scenario:
Team 1: Randomway Pug Lambslaughter that happened to have a decent infuser.
Team 2: Boa Sin / Ele Nuke Sinspike pressure build.
Team 3: Us ( Rit spike )
Me: Martyr Ritualist.

Team3: Spikes random pve ele in Team1. Deal about 400 damage - Infuse - Deal 300 damage. Target is barely alive, escapes and gets healed.

4 seconds later: Boa sin spikes the same ele.

Me: Gaze the ele at the last part of the boa sin spike. Point goes to us.

That being said, theres probobly some other bugs from what I hear from other people. But this is what Ive seen.

Are you saying that as an example of a bug, or as an example of a kill steal? Cause it's exactly how it should work and the point SHOULD go to you considering the current rules.

I think the main problem is that it's very hard to discern who's a safe target to spike or not in those case. You can't honestly keep track of who got spiked, failed and healed by the other team. Something that'd be nice if it was possible to implement (assuming that kill counts stay there. I know that many just want them out and atm i'm more thinking along the same lines) is to simply put a color dot besides the target name if the other team dealt more than either target's current life or a fix amount (say 600 damage) in the last 10s. This way you'd know that this target is already another team's target in a sense and there's not much point trying to spike/pressure this one down.

I don't really doubt that the kill count is working exactly as intended atm and that more or less any 'kill steal' can be due to the fact that the other team dealt more damage somewhere in the last 10s (even if you killed the target from full on your own).

There's various ways this could be improved though. For example :

Cap the 'damage dealt to target' at target's max health and give 50 damage bonus to the team that score the kill. 50 damage wouldn't allow for a kill steal if the other team actually dealt most of the damage, but this way if you take a target down from full, you will always get the kill no matter what (and to me it's evident that this SHOULD be the case. If you take a target down from full, you deserve the kill, no matter if the other team dealt 10000 damage to the guy in the last 10s). Also, in cases where 2 teams dealt very close to the same damage to the target, the team that scored the kill gets an advantage, which makes sense. Also by capping damage dealt to target at the target's max health you severly limit the amount of damage that a team can have 'in storage' on a certain target over the last 10s. Even if the target was spiked, saved, spiked again, saved, spiked again and saved again the team won't have 1500 damage in store which is basically impossible to overcome if you happen to target the same guy (not necessarily knowing that 3s ago it was a spike target from another team).

Last thing to consider would be degen and life stealing and make sure they work properly. Degen seems hard to balance well, especially in a case where both teams would have degen on the same target (say the guy is at -20 degen with -10 coming from 2 different teams, only -10 is active so who gets the points for the degen dealt? Clearly problematic). But i don't think it's that big of an issue for degen seriously, because if you just get people low and let the other team finish them off, in a sense you deserve to lose the kills because those people that were low could very possibly be saved if you don't finish them off, and if the other team did well they can deserve it. I think that as long as degen is at least considered (so -10 degen = 20 damage per sec) it'd be fine.

Rey Lentless · Feb 21, 2007, 09:25 AM // 09:25

I'm wondering how ranger spirit damage is counted w/ kill counts. Something like edge, famine, etc.. I wonder if that damage is counted by the spirit's owner, discarded, or what.

Vermilion Okeanos · Feb 21, 2007, 09:52 PM // 21:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rey Lentless

I'm wondering how ranger spirit damage is counted w/ kill counts. Something like edge, famine, etc.. I wonder if that damage is counted by the spirit's owner, discarded, or what.

I am very sure that it apply in the same way as backfire, where it doesn't quite count as your damage.