Feb 17, 2007, 06:05 PM // 18:05
|
#21
|
Frost Gate Guardian
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Waiting
Guild: Balance
|
The reason people run melee weopans is for the constant +5 energy, becasue on wands there is a +5 energy while health is above 50%, once your life is below 50% you lose that 5 energy which could hurt quite a bit in some situations. I favor running a spear over sword becasue then you know who's close enough by using the spear to attack them, which is pretty much the aggro circle. I usually have been running a wand just to get off some damage on the overextenders. I prefer running a +10 armor vs XX over running a -5(20%)
|
|
|
Feb 19, 2007, 03:27 AM // 03:27
|
#22
|
Jungle Guide
Join Date: Nov 2005
Guild: Hoser Down[HD]
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anti Oath
I prefer running a +10 armor vs XX over running a -5(20%)
|
Agreed I don't see any point to ever running a -5(20%). It reduces what about the same amount as -1(100%) and is risky and may not even go off when you need it.
|
|
|
Feb 19, 2007, 05:25 PM // 17:25
|
#23
|
Wilds Pathfinder
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Quebec
Guild: Pretty much stopped
Profession: Rt/
|
One question for ZB Monks weapons.
Is there any interest to the +10E <RED ENGINE GO50% wand or staves?
It always seemed to me like a good idea since if you drop below 50%, you automatically get the energy for ZB no matter how low you are, and then you ZB yourself, and you get the energy back AND it goes back hidden again. Basically, it's as if the wand does the weapon switch for you. You always have 10E hidden in case you'd drop below 50%, and ZB refunds it in this case anyway. Might be more useful in TA than GvG since it's easier to control though.
Note that i don't play monk at all and it might seem like a foolish idea to experienced monks, so it's truly just an honest question
|
|
|
Feb 19, 2007, 05:59 PM // 17:59
|
#24
|
Frost Gate Guardian
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Abq.
Guild: Mostly Harmless [MH]
Profession: Mo/
|
I'd much rather just swap to a +energy swap.
Also, in GvG, there's no guarantee whatsoever that you're going to be the one under 50% when you need a to land a free ZB.
|
|
|
Feb 19, 2007, 06:11 PM // 18:11
|
#25
|
Wilds Pathfinder
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Quebec
Guild: Pretty much stopped
Profession: Rt/
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hauki
I'd much rather just swap to a +energy swap.
Also, in GvG, there's no guarantee whatsoever that you're going to be the one under 50% when you need a to land a free ZB.
|
Well nothing prevents you to do the swap if it's someone else. Just that if you happen to be pressured hard and didn't expect it (can happen if people turn on you out of nowhere, especially with teleports), it saves you the 1s of swapping to get the energy.
|
|
|
Feb 19, 2007, 08:28 PM // 20:28
|
#26
|
Krytan Explorer
Join Date: Nov 2006
Guild: Xxx The Final Thrust Xxx[RIP]
Profession: P/A
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patccmoi
it saves you the 1s of swapping to get the energy.
|
Proper Weapon swaps are bascially instantaneous and trigger with the cast. It's not a terrible idea for a TA monk who isn't great with swaps, but you could probably put a set to better use... especially since most monks prefer to just stay in shield sets anyhow, so hanging out in a staff set in anticipation of getting throttled doesn't make much sense in a damage mitigation way of thinking.
|
|
|
Feb 19, 2007, 08:51 PM // 20:51
|
#27
|
Lion's Arch Merchant
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Finland
Guild: Kuningas Kunta [Pipi]
Profession: Mo/
|
Like seamus said damage reduction from shield and other mods you have are more valuable than that nice effect which is highly conditional and what you get by weapon swapping anyway. Only thing that really bugs me in weapon swaps is the game "forgetting" my weapon swap when I activate it while standing in aftercast and chaining my next spell before that swap has actually done. This happens sometimes when I'm in horry to heal ppl and then someone gets spiked and I need more mana to get rof/spirit bond etc to save that spiked players butt.
|
|
|
Feb 20, 2007, 08:58 PM // 20:58
|
#28
|
Wilds Pathfinder
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Chicago
Guild: Idiot Savants [iQ]
Profession: Mo/
|
http://www.teamquitter.com/phpBB2/vi...asc&start =65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommy
Quote:
Originally Posted by makkert
3) This implies that you regulary weaponswap throughout the course of most games?
When I weaponswap, I usually do it either because:
- vs e-denial
- emergency need for energy
- need for wanding
Do you have other reasons for weaponswapping, and if so, which reasons? Because if I look at my monking, I don't find myself swapping that much for these 3 reasons...
|
To answer your first question, I weapon swap for nearly every cast. Of course, there are exceptions such as the beginning of the game, start of pushes, or when we are not pressured at all, when I don’t need to and can afford to simply sit in my defensive set. Other than that, there are several reasons for weapon swapping, some of which you have stated and then some more.
I’ll start with your first reason for swapping: versus energy denial. There’s a duality to that point. The first use of this tactic is versus domination mesmers. That one is well-understood and simply consists of staying in a very low (23-25) energy set and swapping up when casting is needed. The second aspect, which is what I always complain that I don’t see enough of out of most monks is sacrificing energy pool for other benefits, whether it be defense or efficiency. It follows a similar precedent as the “hiding energy” method, but with a different purpose. You are letting your energy pool shrink significantly, but not to get it away from your opponent, but rather to gain additional defensive benefits for yourself. Far too many people think that shields are only used with a negative energy weapon in order to make up the hidden energy set. Of course, if that is how you want the set to work, it’s completely fine, but there are greater benefits to be earned for a shield set. Personally, I use a plus five energy weapon with my shield set so that my energy only goes down by twelve from my “standard set”. The sacrifice of energy leads to a gain of plus 16 armor (or 8 if you don’t meet the requirement) as well as plus 10 armor against the damage type of your enemy. Before the HoD axe was nerfed, it also provided me with an additional 25 health. People seem to think that it is difficult to cast with a shield in your primary set, but realistically, it is the exact same as monking with any other weapons. The mechanic used for this tactic is the same as is used versus energy denial, simply getting the additional defensive benefit while there is no need to cast and swapping to a higher energy set when it is necessary. If someone is quick enough with their weapon swapping, then there is really no downside to this and once utilized properly, will lead to a nearly permanent plus 26 (or 18) armor for your monks, along with the ability to use the best skill in Guild Wars (oh yeah, I said it).
The second reason that you stated was emergency need for energy. Personally, I never view my energy pool as 35 or 47, but rather as 72 at all times. Assuming there is some feasible chance for recovery, such as a Heal Party bot getting back into range, then you really shouldn’t be afraid to dip into the plus energy set. If someone dies because you claim to be at low energy, yet something still existed in that larger pool, then it was an inefficient use of resources. I generally get into that high set in every single game that we play, and it rarely ends with a wipe. There are many reasons for having to hit the high energy set. Some including being left as a solo monk and having to run back to your team or base, having a Heal Party bot out of range against a degen team, taking too much damage as a stand team because you are outnumbered and realize that you need to pull back and simply defend the base, or knowing that the offensive push that your team is making needs to take precedence over any kind of defense, such as making a push to snare a runner in order to secure morale (you may lose a lot of energy and maybe even take a death, but the benefit of the morale boost will far outweigh those negative consequences, and your team should be very understanding about the need to regain stability after the push). I’m sure there are many reasons that I’m leaving out, but that’s all that I could think off of the top of my head. Main point: swapping into a high energy set should be standard, and considered part of the standard energy pool. If red lights flash and an alarm goes off in your head when you have to swap to that to save someone, then so be it, but still do it because in the long run, you will most likely benefit from it.
The third reason you mentioned was for wanding. Umm, yeah? I mean, it’s always good to have a wand that you meet the requirement for in one of your sets, and when you need to wand, you can swap and wand someone. I’ve gotten kills on assassins who have come the back way at the beginning of the game on the fire map, but other than those rare and novelty situations, it’s not really the biggest issue. When you get a chance to do it or need to, always do it, but not really a main reason to swap. In other words, don’t invest in a 15^50 wand any time soon.
The final thing that I would like to go over would be weapon swapping for additional benefits on specific skills. With no need for a negative energy set due to the lack of energy denial, the set can be used for other reasons. The most basic would be to benefit specific skills in order to increase their frequency or efficiency. This premise began with OoB and edrain monks, as they would utilize dual plus recharge items in order to get their OoB and edrain back faster, and thus, more energy out of them. Specific swaps can be used to benefit skills such as Gift of Health, Shield of Absorption, Aegis, Divert Hexes, or pretty much anything else that you feel you need more efficiency from. For example, if you are facing a team where you find yourself using GoH a lot and could use it a lot more if it were recharged, then feel free to add a 20% heal recharge wand and 20% heal recharge offhand. This will lead to your GoH recharging in half the time 36% of the time if you swap to that set every time that you use GoH. For Shield of Absorption, the greatest benefit is in the last second that it is on a teammate, as all of the previous damage negation will have already accrued. It also has a rather long recharge of ten seconds. For these reasons, it’s probably best to use a 20% longer enchant weapon with a 20% prot recharge offhand. If using Aegis, the 20% longer enchant weapon is always a good choice, and you can use an offhand of your choosing. Prot recharge with +health can be nice if you only have two Aegises in the build, but that might make it hard to maintain energy, as Glyph of Lesser Energy will only be up every 30 seconds. If you are using Aegis with GoLE, a staff that knocks down your maximum energy will probably be your best bet, as although Aegis has a hefty energy cost, it will not require any to cast under the glyph. The benefit of using the staff over a weapon+focus would be the +30 health as oppose to the additional energy. If GoLE is not being used, I discourage staggering energy sets for such an unnecessary reason. Against a hex build, a 40% prot recharge set for a Divert Hexes monk is amazing, assuming that you have some way to keep your energy up. You might not need to use it every time it recharges quickly, but when you really do need a couple of them in a row, it’s a life saver. Once again, it’s a rather simple premise, just swap to the set whenever you need efficiency out of specific skill, and then swap to another set.
All in all, I spend a great majority of my time in my defensive set (plus five energy and plus 30 health weapon with shield). If I need an extra 12 energy, I can swap to my “standard set” and cast there, immediately swapping back to defense. If I am using one of my designated skills, I swap to my efficiency set, cast it, and then go right back to defensive. If I have used up all of my energy in all of my sets, quick swaps to a high energy set and then back down to defense is always an option. Versus energy denial, I can easily just swap in a minus energy set and sit in that when I don’t need to cast.
Sorry about the delay on the response. I hope I covered anything that you had questions about. If I wasn’t too clear about anything, just let me know. Anything else you were wondering, just feel free to ask. Once again, I’m not going to preach anything I say as the “best” way to do things, but simply the methods that I personally prefer and have found to work the best, along with my rationale.
|
http://www.teamquitter.com/phpBB2/vi...asc&start =68
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommy
Quote:
Originally Posted by budda
I was just wondering, what exactly do you use as your "standered set?"
im currently using a +60 staff with 20/20 or other mod, and genrally switching into it for lowish energy and against pure spike. just want to know what you use for this slot
|
Staffs are trash. I don't see any benefit in using one other than ability to wand or for 40% fast cast on a pure healer. And in that case, what do you have a pure healer for?
Anyway, by "standard set", I was simply referring to any set that people use with the maximum amount of energy and four pips of regen (usually about 47 energy). Most people use this as a primary set for casting. It's always convenient to have one. Personally, I use a weapon with +5 energy and +30 health and a focus with +30 health and +5 armor versus physical.
So my weapon sets generally look like this (first three sets for sure, and then choose one of the last ones depending on what you need):
Standard set
One-handed weapon +5 energy +30 health
Focus item +12 energy +30 health +5 armor vs physical
Defensive set
One-handed weapon +5 energy +30 health
Shield (req 8-9 tactics) +16 armor +30 health +10 armor vs slashing/blunt/piercing/etc
Energy set
Wand +10% spell recharge +15 energy -1 energy regen
Focus item +12 energy +15 energy -1 energy regen +30 health
Efficiency set 1 (Shield of Absorption)
One-handed weapon +5 energy +20% longer enchantments
Focus item +12 energy +20% prot recharge +30 health
Efficiency set 2 (Light of Deliverance or Gift of Health)
Wand +5 energy over 50 +20% heal recharge
Focus item +12 energy +20% heal recharge +30 health
Efficiency set 3 (Aegis)
Staff +10 energy +30 health +20% longer enchantments +20% prot recharge +20% prot fast cast
Efficiency set 4 (Divert Hexes)
Wand +5 energy over 50 +20% prot recharge
Focus item +12 energy +20% prot recharge +30 health
Efficiency set 5 (Energy Denial)
One-handed weapon -5 energy +30 health
Focus item (requirement not met) +5 armor -5 energy +30 health
|
Since those posts, I've acquired a different shield that I've been using in place of the ones that I mentioned. However, if I only had access to basic PvE items or PvP items, those are still what I would be using.
Last edited by romO; Feb 20, 2007 at 09:01 PM // 21:01..
|
|
|
Feb 21, 2007, 04:42 PM // 16:42
|
#29
|
Desert Nomad
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: USA: liberating you since 1918.
|
Staggeringly great post, Tommy. Now I just need 1000 more hours of monking to do it all correctly...
|
|
|
Feb 21, 2007, 07:47 PM // 19:47
|
#30
|
Forge Runner
|
To those who thought Tommy's post was too long (shame!) he says the following:
-Stay in your shield set as much as possible. The +26 armor is worth it.
-Don't be afraid to swap into your 72 energy set if you need to. Preventing a wipe in your high set is better than being wiped in your low/standard set.
-Though wands and have their specific uses, such as switching to a 40/40 set for one specific cast. they're generally not as good as swords/axes/spears. Staffs are crap.
|
|
|
Feb 21, 2007, 11:09 PM // 23:09
|
#31
|
Forge Runner
Join Date: Apr 2006
Guild: vD
Profession: Mo/
|
i'd add just one more thing...swapping to low energy set before dying is nice <3
and i completely agree with tommy..shield and a +5 energy weapon are leet. staves ftl!
Last edited by urania; Feb 21, 2007 at 11:16 PM // 23:16..
|
|
|
Feb 22, 2007, 12:06 AM // 00:06
|
#32
|
Grindin'
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: MO
Profession: E/Mo
|
Thomas, it's actually only +18 armor, unless you have 9 in tactics.
|
|
|
Feb 22, 2007, 09:18 AM // 09:18
|
#33
|
I like yumy food!
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Where I can eat yumy food
Guild: Dead Alley [dR]
Profession: Mo/R
|
Amazing post tommy. Just like everyone else after reading that post, I'm gonna spend the next couple hundred gvgs mastering all that
|
|
|
Feb 22, 2007, 09:25 AM // 09:25
|
#34
|
Forge Runner
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thom Bangalter
Thomas, it's actually only +18 armor, unless you have 9 in tactics.
|
Yeah, but tommy meets the requirement right?
but it's +18 if you don't have a req.7 like tommy yes.
|
|
|
Thread Tools |
|
Display Modes |
Linear Mode
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
All times are GMT. The time now is 05:29 PM // 17:29.
|