Curse

phasola · Jan 09, 2007, 09:50 PM // 21:50

Quote:

They already said it's not just that weekend, they started to track HA way before which means that we were all wrong.

Who on earth had the brilliant idea of changing the party size to "save" HA?

Nadia Roark · Jan 11, 2007, 03:31 PM // 15:31

Changing the party size in order to "fix" HA was the natural result of complaining loudly without offering any real suggestions (like a lot of people are doing right now). They ran the 6v6 weekend and it seemed like a good idea at the time, so they went ahead with it. I think ANet was concerned about players "getting their foot in the door," since the complaint about not being able to get into ranked groups and thus not being able to earn rank was a common one. I believe the 6v6 system was implimented in order to open up the game for these folks.

I think all things considered I prefer 8v8, and if it comes back I'll be beside myself with all the new options. That said, I really expected to enjoy 6v6 a lot less.

Tea Girl · Jan 11, 2007, 11:07 PM // 23:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nadia Roark

Changing the party size in order to "fix" HA was the natural result of complaining loudly without offering any real suggestions (like a lot of people are doing right now). They ran the 6v6 weekend and it seemed like a good idea at the time, so they went ahead with it. I think ANet was concerned about players "getting their foot in the door," since the complaint about not being able to get into ranked groups and thus not being able to earn rank was a common one. I believe the 6v6 system was implimented in order to open up the game for these folks.

I think all things considered I prefer 8v8, and if it comes back I'll be beside myself with all the new options. That said, I really expected to enjoy 6v6 a lot less.

Eh finally got tired from running unsuccessful bal in 6v6?

I'm happy as long as monks are essential in HA. I will put on my emo coat if anet decide to "improve" HA into AB-like (port capping... kill counts etc).

Shadows Assasin X · Jan 11, 2007, 11:32 PM // 23:32

8v8 was waYYYY! WAYYYYY! beter. much much funner. alot more builds to use that were alot more funner to use. i have the new 6v6 boring stuff. notice the lack of PEOPLE IN HA NOW>?!!?!?! used to be 8 or 9 districts when it was tombs still. now they have 6v6 and their is only 1-2 districts in international, in america there is usually 1-2 rarley 3. im not sure about europe BUT PLEASE BRING 8v8 BACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! A-NET PUT A POLL ON THE GW SITE OR SOMETHING LET THE PEOPLE DECIDE!!!!!! I BEG YOU 8v8 FTW!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Vax · Jan 12, 2007, 01:10 AM // 01:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nilator

I vote 6v6, spike teams, SF, and most likely spirit spam teams would be to over powered.

Wow uh
And you realize with the ability have have 2 more slots for players avaliable allows you to bring the skills needed to counter such teams?
Any Spike Team - Bonder Ftw? Diversion Ftw? Interrupts Ftw? Hex Pressure Ftw?
SF - lol.. ur joking right? considering when 8v8 Tombs was still around people brought a 3 monk backline 1 prot 2 healers .. I think this would be more than enough to counter 8v8 SF

Spirit Spam -Spirtual Pain , Unatural Signet, Rupture Soul

hi2u2

Vax · Jan 12, 2007, 01:49 AM // 01:49

This post will determine my take on the situation of Heros Asent right now
Now for some of you this post might mean nothing and you might not even bother to read it. But just remember that I am one of the few that still play in Heros Asent [Tomb of the Primeval Kings] that have been playing the game near to the begining

There is always going to be skills that are going to upset the community.
Arena Net cant fix all of these and make everyone happy because there is always going to be 1 person that is going to be complaining. And, yes, I do agree that they should support the majority of the community that has asked for them to change it back to what we used to play. But what is going to happen when, or if, they change it back to 8 vs 8 is that there is going to be that 1 person that is going to complain and then there is going to be an entire new chapter in this game that was the same as the last just as an opposite (same things keep repeating but in opposite form).

6v6 Currently:
Gameplay - You see builds like spirit spam, jagged bones, searing flames, signet of mystical wrath, and newer version of older builds. None of these are currently overpowered. But because there is such few options of what 1 team can put into that team you cant really do anything to hold off all of the builds that you one will encounter. The districts are basically empty and you have to play the same builds over and over again unless you find someone that is willing to take a chance with a new build; but then they give up because they cant find enough people willing to play it.

Maps - The maps do not need to be changed. They are put there to test your skill ability to get onto the next maps. I honestly am not a fan of the relic runs because I just like to put raw power into builds that I run and I think that by having this type of a map into a type of game like GuildWars where the final map to play on in Heros Asent is The Hall of Heros which is infact an altar map (why should you have to even bother playing relic maps when the 1 map that gets you the 40 max fame each win is at the end of the bunny trail?). Well even though my thoughts mean so much to everyone on this forum (lol), I am wrong and relic runs are apart of this game. They show how well a team can defend or attack against another team. The Altar maps do not, I repeat do NOT need to be changed again. For anyone that has been playing as long as me they would remember when you used to have to capture an altar you would have to have you ghost on a pin in exactly the middle of the altar in order for you to capture it at all; unlike todays HA where the ghost just has tobe "in the area" of the middle of the altar (when i say the middle of the altar I mean the exact middle). Maps like Scarred Earth test your ability to play against 2 different teams on 1 map. It shows that the build that you are running is not just some pile of bullshit and deserves tobe in the Hall of Heros. Guess what if you dont wnat to keep losing on Scarred Earth, I suggest you run a better build. Ah yes the infamous Broken Tower. People complain because its an altar map so early into the stages of the map setup. So, if you complain about this map, you basically cant win this map correct? So if you cant win that map what do you think? Do you think that you will be able to win the Hall of Heros? The final map in the system that holds the teams that have beaten the majority of the other teams inorder to play there?

Skill Balance-
Honestly I think that the skill balance has gotten a lot better from what it was when they first made it 6v6. I rarely see any problems with this considering nothing is really overpowered when you have only 6 people. The only thing wrong with this is that you cant counter all of the builds or the majority of the builds out there with only 4 people on offense (and good luck holding if you dont have 2 people on defense)

Activity-
The activity in the international districts is sad to say the least
Considering there used to be around 8-14 ID's a day and now theres 1-2 [average]
The skips with 6v6 is angering, because who really wants to skip? I mean the whole point of playing in Heros Asent honestly is to get your fame and get the titles and then of course /rank and doing a tiger copter

---
I think that what I said covers most about 6v6
Now onto 8v8 w/ NightFall skills predictions

8v8 Gameplay:
Honestly I think that there would be a lot of mixed builds going out at the start, everyone trying to figure out what would work the best, and trying to figure out what would counter the new best builds. There would generally be more activity for the start, and most likely some of the gvg players [that used to play HA] would come back for some time to see what it would be like. But of course if 8v8 were going to come back ANet would need to put back on Burial Mounds, and I think that changing the time limits on the altar maps to maybe 7 minutes (Yes I realize in the past that none of the teams would even go into the altar area until the last 2 minutes were left on the timer, but with 8v8 being reinstated into the HA world with the newer NF skills there would be more defense and with this I think that the teams would have less opportunities to take the altar from the holding team [also wtf I cant believe noone except for me realized that if you push into the holding team early you give them DP making them less of a threat later on? lol).

Maps-
Bring back Burial Mounds 1 v 1 v 1 v 1 style
Keep Scarred the way it is
Change altar maps to 7:00 Minutes
Possibility change The Hall of Heros back to an Elimination / Altar Map ( red1 v 1blue : silver1 v 1yellow : i cant even remember the other colors anymore1 v 1cant remember the old colors

)

Skill Balance-
Haha
The skill balance for the start would be completely facked due to no one having any clue on what to run. Things would be like this for oh say 2 weeks at the most until some of the vets came back and reinstated some of the older skills combined with the newer skills to make a 8 man party that could be worthy of being called a build.
Older builds would be back of course, but with less power than from what they had before. There would be way to many counters to the older builds that most of us were used to playing. Also considering there were already a ton of counters to the FOTM's of the past before they changed it to 6v6

Activity-
As shown in the past with having 8-12 international districts during every hour of every day seemed pretty good to me
I mean it wasnt perfect but it was pretty damn close
Like Teh Mighty Warrior said previously somewherein this god forsaken thread is that he missed the days of spending 10 minutes to try to get into id1 [made me laugh btw]
but anyway the activity would definitely improve just because people that left HA because of how gay it got would most definetly come back
It wont be the same as it was before because Arena Net screwed themselves so bad this time people actually sold their accounts to go play WoW [yea a couple of my friends

]
So it wont be like it was before but I would still predict upon 5-9 ID's daily if they reinstated 8v8

-------

This has been my post based upon reading the posts up to page 9 (seemed to repeat themselves up to there so I didnt bother to read anything after that)
Also combined with the posts of this thread I have put in my own 2 cents into the post with my knowledge of HA in the past and the present
Enjoy the reading material

axe · Jan 12, 2007, 02:45 PM // 14:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vax

Ah yes the infamous Broken Tower. People complain because its an altar map so early into the stages of the map setup. So, if you complain about this map, you basically cant win this map correct? So if you cant win that map what do you think? Do you think that you will be able to win the Hall of Heros? The final map in the system that holds the teams that have beaten the majority of the other teams inorder to play there?

Your post was very Nice BTW. Im just quoting this part because while I agree with it in the "big picture" sense of it, The early rotation 3-way altar is not healthy for HA.

First most teams dont play HA to win HOH, they THINK they are, but they are not. Why? because they are new players and dont yet have enough experience to beat all the maps and beat good teams. So why would we discourage these players by putting up such a roadblock as Broken tower, in 8v8 the roadblock for most new teams was Scarred Earth, which still allowed them to win UW, Burial, and Broken before losing to 1 of 4 teams on Scarred. At least they could learn something in the process, and practice with the build they were running.

Currently if you are LUCKY you will play a match on UW, but 50% of the time it seems you skip to Broken or Scarred, if you are a new team you get defeated and sent back.

Im not advocating the "lets make it easy for new players" approach, I am simply saying, lets not make it discouraging. Your chances of fighting a better team when you are new are multiplied by the number of teams on the map, as well as how far along in the rotation that map happens to be. If you are a new player and happen to get on a team with no rage quitters and you were able to lose, re-enter, lose, re-enter, lose, re-enter without having to reform the group, the repeated losses on these "roadblock" maps would be discouraging enough, let alone the fact that most new teams DO have ragers and other problems before they even enter the arena.

A part of me dies when I see people on local chat advertising "Holding group LF more" I have to stop what Im doing and take time out of my day to feel sorry for this team.

The other problem with the early 3-way altar is that it encourages the high defense builds so that they can at least get a couple consecutives before losing. This in my opinion hurts HA as well because if alot of teams adopt this strategy you end up with less variety and some funky matches after Broken tower.

Just my 2 cents.

Nadia Roark · Jan 12, 2007, 08:25 PM // 20:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tea Girl

Eh finally got tired from running unsuccessful bal in 6v6?

You may have misread me; I was attempting to indicate that I ended up enjoying 6v6 more than I thought I would--not that it has so much to do with the builds I'm facing (I think I hate spirit forest the most) but the general pace of it. I took a break from tombs in late august, and I didn't participate in the double fame weekend on purpose. Like most others, I lept to the conclusion that 6v6 was gay and for the longest time I refused to patronize it.

And then I stopped bitching about it and gave it an honest shot. Plenty of kinks remain to be worked out but I think a 6v6 arena should exist somewhere, even if they take it out of tombs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tea

I'm happy as long as monks are essential in HA. I will put on my emo coat if anet decide to "improve" HA into AB-like (port capping... kill counts etc).

Well, I'm not sure how much AB monk disuse has to do with the altar capping mechanic versus the fact that the only characters readily accessible to her are the other three players in her "party." It's very possible that if the entire team were displayed in the party window monks might see some use there. I don't think I can get away with making an exact comparison between AB and HA for that reason; and the presence of non-altar maps should have every bit as much to do with whether or not we're used.

That said, I still can't see why anyone would run anything other than ele ball in AB-style altar matches. It would have a decent change of winning the other, non-altar matches, while providing what would inevitably become the strongest capping strategy in the game.

Bottom line: Ele ball (in AB altars) > SoC and Ward Stability (in current format). If anyone thinks the capping meta is stupid now, just wait until they try this.

Divineshadows · Jan 12, 2007, 08:49 PM // 20:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vax

Ah yes the infamous Broken Tower. People complain because its an altar map so early into the stages of the map setup. So, if you complain about this map, you basically cant win this map correct? So if you cant win that map what do you think? Do you think that you will be able to win the Hall of Heros? The final map in the system that holds the teams that have beaten the majority of the other teams inorder to play there?

The altar politics and altar strategy used in HoH is very different from that of Broken Tower or Courtyard solely because there is an initialized holding team. That changes everything. Some people complain about broken tower because they cannot win it consistently. Winning it 50% of the time is a decent clip considering that there are 3 teams competing, but I wouldn't call it consistent by any means.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nadia Roark

(I think I hate spirit forest the most)

There are probably many that share this sentiment. I personally long for a return to an HA meta where people actually play the game rather than letting their spirits, minions, and pets play for them. Not to mention that these elements make use of a game mechanic that make targetting a nightmare. I hold down the key to scan for the target I want and it looks just like in PvE outposts where a ton of people are clustered around the storage agent. It's 10 times worse if you attempt to target using the tab key...

PyrAnkh · Jan 12, 2007, 08:50 PM // 20:50

Even though 8v8 leaves more room for strategy, i voted 6v6. Why? Because i feel like 6v6 forces people to be creative with thoughts about builds cause of limited space. I like 6v6 (as long as you nerf the FoTM now and then)

Nadia Roark · Jan 12, 2007, 09:31 PM // 21:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divineshadows

There are probably many that share this sentiment. I personally long for a return to an HA meta where people actually play the game rather than letting their spirits, minions, and pets play for them. Not to mention that these elements make use of a game mechanic that make targetting a nightmare. I hold down the key to scan for the target I want and it looks just like in PvE outposts where a ton of people are clustered around the storage agent. It's 10 times worse if you attempt to target using the tab key...

Yeah, this is part of the reason why I hate strat calling now. It's kind of counter-intuitive (since 6 targets should be easier to tab through than 8) but with all the spirits/minions/pets out there it makes cycling targets something of a chore for me. My only atlernative is to try to click his character on the screen which is often an exasperating task.

I don't think this necessarily lends itself to a nerfing of spirits/pets/minions or whatever else (hell, in 8-man there will probably be more of them) but a more intelligent targeting system would be nice. IMO tab-targeting should target human opponents; or at the very least it should target them first. I'd rather tab through 6 human targets to find a cleverly hidden fertile than tab through ten rit spirits to find one cleverly hidden monk.

masteroflife · Jan 13, 2007, 07:18 AM // 07:18

8v8 creates more possibilities for builds, its a simple law of math. I do understand that IWAY will be back but i would rather play against IWAY then the current 6v6. Also that in 8v8 more skills are involved with team coordination because you simply have more people. If you are argueing that 8v8 makes it harder for new people to start HA, then think about how you started. Everyone started somehow from rank 0.

Poll accuracy is not a problem. People who does not care about HA would rarely visit the HA forum, thus they would never see the poll. If say there is a 10% error margin, we are still 75% in favor of 8v8.

In another word, give people what they want.

N E D M · Jan 13, 2007, 07:46 AM // 07:46

7 vs 7 F T W
for real.

auch · Jan 13, 2007, 09:32 AM // 09:32

its simple really they made it 6v6 beacuse alot of ppl came at the double fame event when it was 6v6 they didnt reliase it as for the fame and not 6v6.

Monkity Monk · Jan 13, 2007, 10:21 PM // 22:21

i dont think anet is that dumb to think 6v6 was a good idea just because the increase of Ha'ing the double fame weekend

masteroflife · Jan 14, 2007, 02:15 AM // 02:15

All you need to do is compare the number of people in HA now to the number of people in HA before.

Nadia Roark · Jan 14, 2007, 02:18 AM // 02:18

I've tried to explain this at least a half dozen times but no one seems to be listening... It's possible that the event was a beta in disguise--I would be willing to guess that ANet (like most other companies) has at least a general idea of what they're going to do before they do it. I don't honestly think they woke up one day and said "You know, I liked that 6v6 event so lets change HA to 6v6 for good."

I think the 6-man HA change was done as a result of the numerous complaints from the r0-r2 community to the effect that it was impossible to gain rank and thus join ranked groups. By decreasing the party size, I think they meant to give the new guys a shot by stripping the more talented teams of some of their utility. In some alternate universe maybe it worked, but this one seems to be badly in need of skill/map changes at the least.

auch · Jan 16, 2007, 09:40 PM // 21:40

1. Anet Change It Cus Many PPl Came At The Double Fame Event When it was 6v6.
2. Ppl Blame 8V8 Cus They Can't Find Teams Cus They're unranked

Most Ha Players Do NOT Want 6V6

phasola · Jan 16, 2007, 10:02 PM // 22:02

Quote:

I think the 6-man HA change was done as a result of the numerous complaints from the r0-r2 community to the effect that it was impossible to gain rank and thus join ranked groups. By decreasing the party size, I think they meant to give the new guys a shot by stripping the more talented teams of some of their utility. In some alternate universe maybe it worked, but this one seems to be badly in need of skill/map changes at the least.

More people = more parties formed, regardless of party size. Guess Anet fixed that.

subterra · Jan 17, 2007, 03:15 AM // 03:15

8v8 please thx