Curse

Lorekeeper · Feb 15, 2007, 05:04 PM // 17:04

Hi all

Its pretty obvious the old 3 monk backline of yesteryear is not going to work with the new changes to HA... but in response to some opinions in the sticky thread above... i would like to collect the views on all you HAers... monks or non-monks on what kind of monk backlines are now the most effective.

Im definately proposing the following skills as vital to the new meta

infuse - spikes are IN... therefore infuse is IN.
spirit bond - this is the prot monks version of infuse... if you catch a spike with spirit bond... ally shouldnt die.
Light of deliverence - still lots of pressure in the form of AoE Eles... crowding still happens on altar maps and in some choke points... cheap partywide heal is just too good to miss out on and its a great self heal after infusing.
holy veil - to remove the odd hex... can maintain on allies to counter water eles... can totally counter assassin combos that rely on hexes on targets.
Gift of health - allows for prot/heal hybrids using ZB+gift as heals

the biggest problem i think that monk backlines are facing... is energy management.

firstly - The current ritualist spike can pose an incredible strain on the monk who is infusing... having to cast a 10 energy spell almost 2-3 times every 10 seconds... not to mention selfheals.
Its just as bad for the spirit bond monks... having to try and catch spikes with spirit bond 2-3 times every 10 seconds.

secondly - kill count and murderball and capture the point maps pose a new problem in terms of viable energy management because monks can no longer rely on concentrations of static enemies to farm energy through channeling... With the buff to AoE spells tanking potential choke points is risky business.

Questions are...

is channeling still viable?

is channeling now far more difficult to use? (can you still farm energy in groups of enemies as long as you stay alive???)

or is its new difficulty of use enough to tell us that we need to find another source of energy management in HA?

What other means of energy management are available?

2 monk backline versus 3 monk backline?

can a 2 monk backline can compete against 2 other teams in kill count maps and king of the hill?

lots of points to consider... give you views on as many or as little as you want!

Lorekeeper

Divineshadows · Feb 15, 2007, 06:10 PM // 18:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lorekeeper

infuse - spikes are IN... therefore infuse is IN.
spirit bond - this is the prot monks version of infuse... if you catch a spike with spirit bond... ally shouldnt die.
Light of deliverence - still lots of pressure in the form of AoE Eles... crowding still happens on altar maps and in some choke points... cheap partywide heal is just too good to miss out on and its a great self heal after infusing.
holy veil - to remove the odd hex... can maintain on allies to counter water eles... can totally counter assassin combos that rely on hexes on targets.
Gift of health - allows for prot/heal hybrids using ZB+gift as heals

I strongly agree that the first two are a must in the current HA meta, because those are the two best monk tools for dealing with spikes. The other three skills you listed are strong selections for the reasons you listed. Overall, I don't think monk bars can be considered in isolation but rather have to be considered upon how they interact within the defensive framework as a whole.

For instance, if you have a dervish, then the dervish can bring imbue health as a strong spike heal to either heal the infuser post-infuse or to infuse in place of the infuser for a spike to help give the infuser a break on their energy. Ritualists can bring vital weapon which is an awesome anti-spike counter.

Then there are the considerations of the team as a whole. In the 6v6 meta, as a monk I had no problem putting major attribute runes or sometimes even superior attribute runes in special circumstances on the offensive characters. For 8v8 though, it's minor runes or bust and I prefer every player on my HA teams to have at least 630 health at 0% morale so that their total health climbs close to 700 with 10% morale and up to 800 or above with vital weapon on them.

Im In A Build · Feb 15, 2007, 06:36 PM // 18:36

imo the monk line up thats worked best so far for teams ive played with seems to be 2x mo/e 1 being rc prot the other being ethire lod infuse or zb infuse

channeling seems to be conuterproductive nowdays because builds are ethire aoe heavy or spikes with a bunch of spirits like blood song/pain/shadowsong etc . versus the nuker builds you just cant stand anywhere for long so channeling is meh. v rits spikes, well most callers c+space call so chances are ull get spiked alot and even if ure pre proted they can gaze you. also u can have 3x spirits attacking u which is a major pain in the ass since they dont trigger sb/ps and you get minimal rof effect. also in kill counts channelin i just bad because if you get caugh in the middle of a nuke fest or a c+space spike fest your energy will still get RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOed

as for 2 monk v 3 monk backline i really think 2 monk back line wins out because theres less overhealing /proting to be done so things are much more effective but off course you still need other characters with defensive utility to help you things like vital wepon /imbune health/water snares/kds can greatly help

Sab · Feb 15, 2007, 09:45 PM // 21:45

I'm a big fan of LoD/Infuse + ZB/GoH. No matter what kind of build we run, the monk backline stays mostly the same. A third Monk is often wasted space, a support Rit or Para with additional heals would be better.

Channeling and Glyph of Lesser Energy both work as Monk e-management. On some maps and against certain builds Channeling works better, but at other times you'd want GoLE.

Wilhelm · Feb 15, 2007, 10:08 PM // 22:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sab

I'm a big fan of LoD/Infuse + ZB/GoH. No matter what kind of build we run, the monk backline stays mostly the same. A third Monk is often wasted space, a support Rit or Para with additional heals would be better.

Channeling and Glyph of Lesser Energy both work as Monk e-management. On some maps and against certain builds Channeling works better, but at other times you'd want GoLE.

Pretty well much sums it up.

Altar matches where you can simple camp the altar and feed off 8+ for channeling is nice, while having Glyph, and not having to get in harms way has it's moments.
The 'new' HA is as wide open as it's ever been, so relying on Channeling, is becoming less common.

Nadia Roark · Feb 16, 2007, 10:16 PM // 22:16

I'm a GoLE junkie myself. 2 free spells every 30 seconds is pretty sexy, especially if one of them is ZB and your team is under heavy pressure.

Channeling is definately FTL on altars, at least for prots. I don't mind that healers still run it but I've developed an aversion to channeling due to the gameplay changes and it's unlikely I'll use it very much in the future, if things stay as they are.

2 monk backlines are viable, but you need some defense/utility somewhere else in the build, especially for altars. 2 Monk backlines will (with a competent team) almost always roll people in 1v1 but the pressure on altars can be rrrrreeeally frickin' hard to handle, especially without defensive utility. I do not agree that a third monk is usually "wasted space" however, since like just about everything else in pvp it depends on the build and the players you're running with. A few hours ago I pugged 3 eles 2 wars, 3 monks (with ZB, LoD and barriers) and we flawlessed every altar map. A third monk can be alright if the rest of the team knows how to apply pressure correctly.

Xero Silvam · Feb 21, 2007, 02:35 AM // 02:35

If you can manage it, powerdrain is the way to go. Channeling provides good energy too.

Monk setup I enjoy most is LoD/Infuse, WoH/ZB, RC.

2 monk setups are fun, but need decent monks and a decent team to work.

FFW · Feb 28, 2007, 11:15 AM // 11:15

backline I really like atm is:
mo/e
sb
rof
goh
glyph of lesser energie
divert hexes
aegis
dismiss cond
shielding hands

mo/e
ps
rof
zb
glyph of lesser ener
aegis
holy veil or soa
infuse
dismiss cond

the divert ..... up meta and with sb and infuse in there u got enough vs spikes. Also the zb+infuse gives u a free selfheal after infuse. I have a lot of problems using channeling atm and think gole is a perfect replacement.