Curse

Sol Constituent · Feb 20, 2007, 08:06 AM // 08:06

I was playing around in TA last night and ended up finding a build that worked really well with my guildee:

edit: apparently guessing atts on fairly standard builds is too hard....

A/W
12+4 dagger
10+1 crit
8+1 deadly
assassins promise
dark prison
burst
black lotus
twisting fangs
black spider
blades of steel
rez

Rt/R
12+4 communing
12+1 spawning
boon of creation
serpents quickness
wanderlust
pain
shadowsong
shelter
union
rez

N/Mo
12+3 curse
12+2 SR
Reapers mark
faintheartedness
recklace haste
parasitic bond
well of darkness
sig of lost souls
holy veil
rez

Mo/A
10+1 heal
12+1+2 prot
9+1 div
4 shadow
gift of health
shield of absorbtion
dimsiss condition
zealous benediction
prot spirit
shielding hands
return
holy veil

It was pretty basic, but we ended up doing quite well with. the only problems came against really hex heavy groups, due to the 2 hex removal spells total in the group. I was thinking of replacing the rit with a mesmer runnin expel hexes and some caster hate (frustration + ints), but ended up going to bed as it was 3am. anyway, i've kinda meandered off-topic, but originally i was noting how awesome burst sins are (i prefer the expose defense/shadowprison build to the one above, personally), at finishing off targets once they're under heavy hex pressure from RM. the RM and burst sin completemented eachother pretty well.

Divineshadows · Feb 20, 2007, 08:27 AM // 08:27

Please post attributes to go with the skills for your teambuild so people can give you feedback. I'll give 24 hours to the OP to correct to avoid closure of the thread.

ThaAlchemy · Feb 20, 2007, 03:50 PM // 15:50

shouldnt be hard to "guess" the atts. Im sure the necro has alot of fun.

Acidic Won · Feb 20, 2007, 04:08 PM // 16:08

This might be the first time I have ever seen a prot build without RoF.

Sol Constituent · Feb 20, 2007, 04:45 PM // 16:45

yeah, i was playing around with my monk, and decided that RoF wouldn't mesh as well with shield of absorbtion/shielding hands... it ended up working fine

moko · Feb 20, 2007, 05:09 PM // 17:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sol Constituent

yeah, i was playing around with my monk, and decided that RoF wouldn't mesh as well with shield of absorbtion/shielding hands... it ended up working fine

try kicking gift, its a failure on a ZB bar. lol

also, "Boa" sins are a failure imo.

probably faced two in every second team today (60 wins) and got one-two kills in total.

also, dark prison and shroud of silence > assasins promise. its more of a pve skill :\

btw, on the necro id take insidious parasite over reckless. reckless doesnt go well with fainth. purge sig on the necro would also be better to deal with hexes.

on the rit id take anguish for union and uh..guess thats it. :\ (overall id kick the rit and take some actual damage but w/e dont wanna change the build)

zola · Feb 20, 2007, 05:25 PM // 17:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mokone

try kicking gift, its a failure on a ZB bar. lol

I thought so too. But you do see signet of humility in TA and then...

Divineshadows · Feb 20, 2007, 05:27 PM // 17:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sol Constituent

edit: apparently guessing atts on fairly standard builds is too hard....

No, it's Gladiator Arena policy that all posted builds (for GvG, HA, TA, HvH) contain the skills and the attributes so that people can give accurate feedback to the OP about their build.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sol Constituent

N/Mo
12+3 curse
12+2 SR
Reapers mark
faintheartedness
recklace haste
parasitic bond
well of darkness
sig of lost souls
holy veil
rez

The key breakpoints for this guy are 14 soul reaping (on reapers) and 12 curses (on faintheartedness). You might want to look into dropping the superior rune of this guy and running minors for 14 soul / 13 curses. The only skill that benefits from higher curses is reckless haste and it doesn't benefit much at all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sol Constituent

I was thinking of replacing the rit with a mesmer runnin expel hexes and some caster hate (frustration + ints), but ended up going to bed as it was 3am.

If you still want more hex removal, another option is to run mantra of recovery with remove hex (and swap the veil on the necro for purge signet using energy sets swap of 25 away from the base 47). Mantra of recovery would buff every other skill on the mesmer's bar like diversion, shame, shatter enchantment, etc. Just make sure to bring power drain on the MoR so that he can actually afford to use the other skills.

Using frustration and migraine plus a bar full of interrupts does not an efficient character make.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mokone

also, "Boa" sins are a failure imo.

The failures you speak are more about the players playing the assassins acting too predictably. Anyway, I really don't like the assassin's bar at all. For this build, I think that a Moebius assassin (with siphon speed and expose defenses perhaps??) would fit better assuming you want pressure or a Shadow Prison assassin would fit better if you want spike.

Zuranthium · Feb 20, 2007, 05:28 PM // 17:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sol Constituent

yeah, i was playing around with my monk, and decided that RoF wouldn't mesh as well with shield of absorbtion/shielding hands...

LOOOOOOOOLLLLLLLLLLLLL??????????

~Z

Patrick Smit · Feb 20, 2007, 05:41 PM // 17:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mokone

try kicking gift, its a failure on a ZB bar. lol

also, "Boa" sins are a failure imo.

probably faced two in every second team today (60 wins) and got one-two kills in total.

also, dark prison and shroud of silence > assasins promise. its more of a pve skill :\

btw, on the necro id take insidious parasite over reckless. reckless doesnt go well with fainth. purge sig on the necro would also be better to deal with hexes.

on the rit id take anguish for union and uh..guess thats it. :\ (overall id kick the rit and take some actual damage but w/e dont wanna change the build)

Two heals is not so bad when under pressure, also the argument brought up above when sig of humility is used is quite valid.

Reckless goes together with faintheartedness, one slows while the other hastens, but u get the 40+% miss, and some degen. Insidious goes badly with faintheartedness, as they need to hit fast and a lot for Insidious to work well and do damage. They need to be cast on different targets to be optimal.

Your suggestion on the purge signet, (or maybe a draw/mend condition) is good i think in case someone gets seriously in trouble he can be helped. My option is less good, but u can deal better or more frequently with daze and conditions.

Sol Constituent · Feb 20, 2007, 06:02 PM // 18:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divineshadows

The key breakpoints for this guy are 14 soul reaping (on reapers) and 12 curses (on faintheartedness). You might want to look into dropping the superior rune of this guy and running minors for 14 soul / 13 curses. The only skill that benefits from higher curses is reckless haste and it doesn't benefit much at all.

Srry, we were running 2 major runes so we could hit the break on SR and have higher curse for a longer recklace/feintheartedness w/o sacrificing health of a sup. but yeah, 15 curse isn't necessary

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick Smit

Your suggestion on the purge signet, (or maybe a draw/mend condition) is good i think in case someone gets seriously in trouble he can be helped. My option is less good, but u can deal better or more frequently with daze and conditions.

Yeah, if we had a mesmer running MoR+remove or expel hex i'd definitely prefer the necro running draw condition + mending touch (probably take out well), but we went with veil since we had minimal hex removal.

skillsbas8 · Feb 20, 2007, 06:33 PM // 18:33

Assasin's promise is a poor choice.
I agree with the mobeus for pressure or shadow prison for spike. I'd go with pressure thinking it complements the rest of the build nicely.

Seamus Finn · Feb 22, 2007, 09:04 AM // 09:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mokone

try kicking gift, its a failure on a ZB bar. lol

Was the lol like a /sarcasm? Because this is absolutely false. If i had to take ZB or gift on a prot bar, I woudl take gift. The skills really don't do the same thing anyhow though. People tend to think ZB is "bringing a good heal to the prot line" but this is really quite wrong. It provides a big heal to the prot line that is likely an overheal unless the target has dangerously low health, then it becomes energy management instead, although the selftargeting function is noteworthy, but still in no way like gift. Gift is the heal skill you use to heal. ZB is an elite Sig of Devotion, in my opinion. Honetly, I would just lose SoA or shielding hands, and since you run high prot lose PS for spirit bond. RoF is basically the best monk skill in the game. However you think it "meshes" with your bar is inconsequential because if you are speccing into prot and not using you are using the wrong bar.

TheOneMephisto · Feb 25, 2007, 03:11 PM // 15:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seamus Finn

Was the lol like a /sarcasm? Because this is absolutely false. If i had to take ZB or gift on a prot bar, I woudl take gift. The skills really don't do the same thing anyhow though. People tend to think ZB is "bringing a good heal to the prot line" but this is really quite wrong. It provides a big heal to the prot line that is likely an overheal unless the target has dangerously low health, then it becomes energy management instead, although the selftargeting function is noteworthy, but still in no way like gift. Gift is the heal skill you use to heal. ZB is an elite Sig of Devotion, in my opinion. Honetly, I would just lose SoA or shielding hands, and since you run high prot lose PS for spirit bond. RoF is basically the best monk skill in the game. However you think it "meshes" with your bar is inconsequential because if you are speccing into prot and not using you are using the wrong bar.

Gift is your main heal when playing a ZB bar. ZB is simply your default for self-healing and for when a target has gone below 50% due to a spike or pressure. Don't use ZB unless an ally is under 50% basically or if gift is recharging and you have to heal a target for some reason.

I wouldn't call Zb an elite sig of devo, as sig of devo is what you use when everyone is pretty high and you want to top off bars. ZB is simply used as a self-heal, as a follow-up to RoF if someone's getting spiked, and as an anti-pressure when people are going under 50 a lot.

moko · Feb 26, 2007, 09:01 AM // 09:01

about gift/zb..that might be the case if your playing in GVG, but certainly not in TA. :/

i really dont get most people - they say gift is essential on a ZB bar, however it is not even needed on my DivertH. bar when i play it (well thats updated now due to ritspikes only. -___-), and definately not needed on my ZB bar.

right, now people are gonna come up with sig of hum/diversion crap, and i would counter with smart playing/utility rangers (OMFG YES THEY HAVE OTHER PURPOSES BESIDES SPREADING DEGEN OMG!!!!11), and you'd say blind, and i'd say a good drawing monk, and i dunno what you guys would say, i couldnt be arsed anymor either way.

the reason to not bring gift is (or rather was due to ritspikes [Divert bar]) that it is terrible easy to outprot the damage a few melee can do with a blinder on your team (a good one, not some crappy E/Mo). rofspam along with devotion is key. spirit bond just pwns if you arent forced to run that shitty frenzied defense, etc etc.

i just suggest you guys to actually try something new before judging - because it worked so far with me for many many gladpoints, and i know many others that are capable of doing the same thing as well. so why wouldnt it work for you?

Quote:

For this build, I think that a Moebius assassin (with siphon speed and expose defenses perhaps??) would fit better assuming you want pressure or a Shadow Prison assassin would fit better if you want spike.

agreed.

looks best to me as well.

Samurai-JM · Mar 01, 2007, 05:25 AM // 05:25

^I made that sin build in the first post

The Leet Ganker

It WAS favored there... but then 3 or 4 people all came in within like 2 hours and unfavored it... It is great in TA with coordinated spikes too. a Team of 2 of those assassins, with a prot/healer would probably take on most teams just because of pure power and speed.

Seamus Finn · Mar 04, 2007, 08:32 PM // 20:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheOneMephisto

I wouldn't call Zb an elite sig of devo, as sig of devo is what you use when everyone is pretty high and you want to top off bars. ZB is simply used as a self-heal, as a follow-up to RoF if someone's getting spiked, and as an anti-pressure when people are going under 50 a lot.

Well, if you are using Zb right, you are getting a 170 + divine heal for free at a 3/4 cast. If you put sig of devo on your bar, you are getting a 90 heal for free at 2 sec cast. Both are also self heals(the fact that ZB is "better" at this is doesn't matter as one uses your elite slot). If you bring sig of devo just to "top off" the bars of people that basically don't need heals, you have a wasted skill slot(especially in an arena that is not particularly spike friendly). Devo on most monk bars ends up being used on recharge when the monks is low on/out of energy. It's energy efficient nature is what makes it good, similarly, so is ZB's. You basically are using either for free heals.

I don't doubt that you can run lots of stupid builds(i.e. anything with frenzied defense) and get glad points. But running a prot bar without the undisputed best skill in the line(and best monk skill in general) is dumb.