Curse

Thomas.knbk · Feb 21, 2007, 01:40 PM // 13:40

Yeah just run a 3 monk backline with arcane echo arcane mimicry spell breaker noobs

Divinus Stella · Feb 21, 2007, 02:07 PM // 14:07

We played this yesterday on burning isle, we went for a split right off and got team wiped in our base trying to turtle, then ressed when our lord was on 25% health and got a fair few kills on them, i think killing the few spirits they had meant the heros were just saccing too much health with spirit light to keep up, they just dropped like flies, we managed to block and time kill their human players, then after the heros based ressed then all ran across the map and tried to res their human players.
We timekilled them again thanks to the heros wasting their resses and half killing thenself in lava we had a good 4 min of free time in their base.

They just didnt seem to have a grasp of gvg at all, not really deserving of their rank, but i think its the same for a lot of the burning isle lamers, wM, KvZ and TACT are all doing exactly the same thing, none really know anything about gvg but they get pulled along by their build.

tomcruisejr · Feb 21, 2007, 04:07 PM // 16:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divinus Stella

think killing the few spirits they had meant the heros were just saccing too much health with spirit light to keep up, they just dropped like flies, we managed to block and time kill their human players, then after the heros based ressed then all ran across the map and tried to res their human players.
We timekilled them again thanks to the heros wasting their resses and half killing thenself in lava we had a good 4 min of free time in their base.

that's why heroes suck in gvg, when you don't control them.

Divinus Stella · Feb 21, 2007, 06:27 PM // 18:27

Well, the heros omniscient view of the battlefield and super fast reaction time is the problem, they may have major downfalls but they make up for that with their broken reactions.

xcutioner · Feb 21, 2007, 08:59 PM // 20:59

We shouldn't even be allowed to play gvg anymore.
I say Anet just provide a way to load up 64 skills onto 8 bots and just let them loose to gvg for us while we sleep.

I mean u dont need skill obviously, just mindless bot champ farming builds.
YAY.

tomcruisejr · Feb 22, 2007, 01:02 AM // 01:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by xcutioner

We shouldn't even be allowed to play gvg anymore.
I say Anet just provide a way to load up 64 skills onto 8 bots and just let them loose to gvg for us while we sleep.

I mean u dont need skill obviously, just mindless bot fame farming builds.
YAY.

thank a.net for the 4 guild members limit.

what if it is made that only 2 members is needed to do gvg? 6 heroes? que horror!

or 0 member limit? 8 heroes or 8 people from top guilds i talked to and paid to farm my guild to desired position. que horror-er!

Nysidious · Feb 22, 2007, 02:36 AM // 02:36

In My Opinion I Think Only Really Neo Can Run The Real Thing. My guild was testing builds as we usually do and we faced a couple 550 and lower running this build and we took emm out. These spikes are a pain though but i think Neo doesn't really use the Hero AI as people thing. I think they manually enter the skills on the heros to use them to cordinate so mabye i have to give them props for that. Just because a build does fairly well doesn't mean you have to nerf it. Ive seen tons of other guilds try this and the got nerf and sooner or later Neo is going to lose and then everyone will stop complaining. Anet shouldnt Nerf everything left and right if a bunch of spoil brats cant handle some builds. I have faced some of the Jagged way stuff before it got nerf and when we lost yea it was a pain and yes i was mad. But after spending some time in the GW Lab me and other builds took them out.

As for rit spikes pfft. Dont get me start. Hmm why dont you kill the spirits. My guild beats them tons of times very easily i might add. The only problem i have with rit spikes if have them and another build on a 3v3 map. That is such a pain. I remember in courtyard when two rit spike teams camped on base and my team was pretty much screwed we couldn't go one way without getting spike by the other team lmao. That was pretty funny though. I laughed for hours.

Kabale · Feb 22, 2007, 10:36 AM // 10:36

Quote:

In My Opinion I Think Only Really Neo Can Run The Real Thing. My guild was testing builds as we usually do and we faced a couple 550 and lower running this build and we took emm out. These spikes are a pain though but i think Neo doesn't really use the Hero AI as people thing. I think they manually enter the skills on the heros to use them to cordinate so mabye i have to give them props for that.

No. They don't.

twicky_kid · Feb 22, 2007, 03:47 PM // 15:47

Discord is not the problem is the Hero Ai. If they AI didn't auto trigger when the discord conditions are met it wouldn't be a problem.

Put discord on a team of 8 real players and watch it fall apart. Real players cannot coordinate as well as heroes and have no where near the reaction time.

Diversion chain 1 of their Discord spammers and the spike is over. The fact is that Heros make less mistakes than real players and that is exactly what GvG is. Splitting also works well. The real player will have to assume more control of the heros that way forcing mistakes.

Wilhelm · Feb 23, 2007, 03:24 AM // 03:24

I'd imagine a human run Discord spike would be difficult to run, seeing as conditions are pretty easy to remove, unless it's a heavy overload.

Apok Omen · Feb 23, 2007, 06:01 AM // 06:01

This spike is very inefficient. Any kind of single monk can beat this, and all you need to do is send one or two gankers in order to beat it. And since they are all softies with no Aegis chain or ''block'' at all, any spike against them will work. This will cause the FomF hero to res, in which you spike them with anything and since AI doesn't have common sense, they will res the dead player with little health. Once that happens, they break apart very quickly.

Undressed · Feb 23, 2007, 06:29 AM // 06:29

Fix the skill, don't touch the Hero AI. Take a close look at its stats please. I am sure some people are getting nervous or suffering from inferiority complexes because the AI is superior to them (similarly to the "scrub" hate), but as the Ayubbids used to say: "Cut off the serpent's head."

Guild teams with less than 8 regular players shouldn't have disadvantages and not be allowed to fill in heroes.

On any other day there wouldn't have been an outrage, it's just that [neo] was successful in creating panic and fury through a build with a quite strong skill.

I'd rather ban shardfenix' lost brother "blame the monks" (not sure if it's the same person) for being unable to control his rage. Fresh air is key.

Patrick Smit · Feb 23, 2007, 07:23 AM // 07:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apok Omen

This spike is very inefficient. Any kind of single monk can beat this, and all you need to do is send one or two gankers in order to beat it. And since they are all softies with no Aegis chain or ''block'' at all, any spike against them will work. This will cause the FomF hero to res, in which you spike them with anything and since AI doesn't have common sense, they will res the dead player with little health. Once that happens, they break apart very quickly.

You mean that AI will induce hero to "autores" when someone dies? Res can be disabled and activated at will by players.

twicky_kid · Feb 23, 2007, 01:36 PM // 13:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undressed

Guild teams with less than 8 regular players shouldn't have disadvantages and not be allowed to fill in heroes.

Its called PvP not PvsAI.

Discord is just about impossible to use with real players. A single draw conditions will destroy Discord vs real players because they do not have the reaction time to spike the same target before the draw hits.

Reals players have to call a target then do a count down. Spikes for real players take about 5-6 seconds to complete the calling and count down.

The AI starts their spike as soon as the conditions are met. Otherwise discord is junk.

Just split to beat them. Heros do not work well split up. You stop their spike and when you kill the real player controlling them they will not have a target caller and the AI will just attack things at random.

Effigy · Feb 23, 2007, 03:29 PM // 15:29

/signed for removing heroes from PvP, or at least GvG. Bots don't belong in competition between players. We already have HvH arena for people that want to use them.

Bugeater · Feb 23, 2007, 03:50 PM // 15:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undressed

Fix the skill, don't touch the Hero AI.

That's a bad suggestion. If we're forced to deal with AI, they should continually try to make it as human-like as possible. If that means putting a random delay between when a condition is met and when they execute the skill then so be it. If that means that they'll only "observe" 1 or 2 enemies at a time instead of keeping constant tabs on the whole field then that's what they should do.

suiraCLAW · Feb 23, 2007, 04:38 PM // 16:38

This image doesn't really prove anything, it just shows that a human discord team can be succesfull.
http://img178.imageshack.us/my.php?image=gw033aw8.jpg

Divineshadows · Feb 23, 2007, 05:22 PM // 17:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undressed

Take a close look at its stats please.

QFT. The damage, cast time, and recharge on this skill just don't line up with game balance no matter what the conditions are on the skill.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undressed

I'd rather ban shardfenix' lost brother "blame the monks" (not sure if it's the same person) for being unable to control his rage. Fresh air is key.

I can guarentee you that they are not. I've played with both of them on vent and they have different voices. One can kite (blame) and one cannot (shardfenix). One was very bad at math and understanding game mechanics (shard) and the other is good at math and game mechanics (blame).

The only posts from Blame The Monks that resemble Sharfenix's in style is when he gets passionate about his hate for the ritualist class in general. Though, everyday I play this game I am becoming more and more of his opinion on that matter. Ritualists were one big design wreck from the very beginning and, rather than trying to give them solid flexible skills, A-net just keeps buffing the powers of conditional skills to retarded levels. Skills like weapon of monk stomp (warmonger's) and You Will Die Now! (lamentation -- might as well be a shout with it's 1/4 second cast and earshot mechanic) are having extremely degenerating effects on the game and make me feel like the only avenue for balancing the game at this point is to remove ritualists from the game until A-net can learn what skill balance means.

tomcruisejr · Feb 23, 2007, 07:15 PM // 19:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Effigy

/signed for removing heroes from PvP, or at least GvG. Bots don't belong in competition between players. We already have HvH arena for people that want to use them.

Celestial Tournament (and hopefully all the successive tournaments) - GvG

"In the event that one of the players listed on a tournament roster is unable to play during a scheduled match, the affected guild can replace that player with a computer-controlled henchman. Heroes are not allowed to be used in this tournament."

TomD22 · Feb 24, 2007, 12:26 AM // 00:26

Heroes, discord, it's all fine.

The real problem (and not just regarding discord builds) is the sentinels on burning isle, which still make splitting from the start time/player consuming enough that teams with a powerful spike (discord, rits, bloodspike, etc) can wipe your base before you can get a proper split going.