Curse

Lorde · Feb 25, 2007, 04:42 AM // 04:42

So, after going very far on the Prophecies campaing, I decided to get a taste of this pee vee pee thing.

So I created Mark Redstar, Ranger / Elementalist from the mighty one-man guild CCCP, a PvP brother of my own PvE Nami Redstar.

I choose Ranger not because I found the class strong at PvP, but because it was the only one I had enough skills open to fill my skill bar.

My very first idea was to be a guy with a big gun giving punishiment with my deadly arrows from very far. Shoot... kill, sounds simple. I choose the Fiery Flatbow with [wiki]Favorable Winds[/wiki] and some other damage bonus, like [/wiki]Read the Wind[/wiki] and [wiki]Conjure Flame[/wiki].

It couldn't kill shit. Anyone with some measly healing skills could run, heal and come back. Plus I was reliant on way too many things... Spirits, Preparations, Enchantaments, which need to be kept and could be exploited.

First lesson:

- Rangers aren't very strong raw damage dealers.

So, like all good noob, I tried to use my PvE build on PvP. I used [wiki]Mark of Rodgort[/wiki] with [wiki]Ignite Arrows[/wiki] to put a fire degen on lots of foes. Not the best idea...

I quickly learned...

- I hadn't enough energy to keep Mark on, needing to bring [wiki]Glyph of Lesser Energy[/wiki] to support.
- On 4x4, you barely have enough enemies together to be worth to AoE.

So I chanced my focus to single target. A Fiery Bow, [wiki]Apply Poison[/wiki] and [wiki]Hunters Shot[/wiki] to try to apply 3 degens on a enemy (burning, poison, bleeding).

It fared better, but... lessons learned:

- Even a 24 sec preparation doesn't last that much, and using a elite to lenght it won't seemed worth. So I decided to shelve any and all preparations and the Mark of Rodgort thing. To say the truth, I abandoned anything I needed to "maintain" in order to be effective, so the Favorable Wind spirit was shelved and I changed to a Recurve Bow with a lower flight path.

I tried some new things to get some fresh air... mass interruption. Distraction Shot + Savage shot. It proved interesting... sometimes I could grab some spammer and give some serious pain. Worked good against Monks too, which was a plus. Still.....

- I couldn't give enough damage.

Sure, I could shut down a oponent, but I couldn't kill him either. So, in essence, I turned a 4x4 on a 3x3, this assuming I won't mess.

Back to the drawing board! I bought the 2 other expansion and decided to come back to the degen thing. I have this opinion Hunters doesn't excel on that raw damage thing, so I come back to my roots, but now, it needed to be totally shot-based.

So, I give the elite spot to [wiki]Burning Arrow[/wiki], coupled with [wiki]Screaming Shot[/wiki] and I try to focus on whoever is closer, to put good use of Screaming Shot and, with luck, kill him while he tries to retreat.

Sucess! The degen, coupled with Marksmanship was enough to put some pressure on the enemy. I was no Assassin but my damage is big enough to keep people on their toes.

Now was time to talk defense. Sometimes someone decide to attack me and I need to survive. [wiki]Escape[/wiki] Was my old tool for that, since it come open when you make a PvP Ranger and I had no other elite to use, but with Burning Arrow, I need something new. I tried many of Hunters defensive skills, but curiously, PvE gave me the solution, in the form os [wiki]Barbed Trap[/wiki]. Anywhere I sit down to shoot, I put a trap first, which have a unexpected effect of catching people unaware when they are running to chase my backline.

To close, I choose [wiki]Throw Dirt[/wiki], because sometimes someone catch me whitout a trap and I can blind, put a trap, use my Troll Unguent AND run to safety. Good to save Monks who are being assaulted by Assassins too.

To close, I brought back a single interruption [wiki]Distracting Shot[/wiki], it's cheap, instant and can ruin someones day.

My last skill I choose solely to (try) to fight something which I found to be very strong on random team, which are these Dervishs from hell. I don't know how, but they just keep moving and swinging, never stopping, never dying. I choose to dual necro -just- to get [wiki]Rend Enchantments[/wiki], which have a added benefit of not needing to invest on the Blood Magic tree to be effective. Still can't kill then effectively thou.

Only thing I think I miss is a good self-heal. The build isn't perfect but it come out naturally and I grow attached to it, and frustating a burst sin day is always a plus on my book.

Cya on the arenas.

Dzan · Feb 25, 2007, 05:11 AM // 05:11

Consider using Crippling Shot as your elite. Not only will it help the melees on your team kill enemy monks, it will help your monks avoid enemy melees.

Second, use Apply Poison rather than bothering with all that fire crap, its easier to use and coincidently works great with Crippling Shot.

Troll Unguent is a great self heal. Since you don't have Nightfall you don't have access to Natural Stride, but if you are serious about pvp you will have it eventually. Natrual Stride and Troll make you pretty darn durable.

Distracting Shot and Savage Shot are amazingly good skills and should be no brainers.

Try that stuff out and you should see a pretty marked improvement.

Divineshadows · Feb 25, 2007, 05:49 AM // 05:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lorde

First lesson:

- Rangers aren't very strong raw damage dealers.

A very good lesson to learn. Rangers are best when played as support. The ability to learn and improve is what separates the players that can advance in their gameplay from those that are stuck in the purgatory that is RA forever. I'm curious as to the length of your described journey (i.e. adventures). Your future in PvP looks bright given some of the lessons you managed to learn on your own and I encourage you to supplement it further with continued play and learning all that you can from reading/searching these forums.

The three playable elites for bow rangers in arenas in my opinion are crippling shot, burning arrow, and broad head arrow. In addition, natural stride, savage shot, apply poison, and distracting shot are must have skills for competitive bow ranger builds. With rez sig and an elite, that leaves you only two variable skill slots. Rend enchantments would not be high on my list of variable skills. Mending touch is, though, for it's ability to get rid of blind, crippled, and deep wound and to help others (i.e. get rid of dazed, crippled, or deep wound from your monk). Another skill to consider using in the variable slot is debilitating shot. You can deny opponents energy which can help you prevent them from putting enchantment stacks on themselves (I can only assume you were speaking of dervishes using 3 enchantments with mystic regen).

I'll leave this thread open for a day in case any other veteran ranger players have anything to add about skill selection for team arenas.

bam23 · Feb 25, 2007, 05:59 AM // 05:59

Stick Natural Stride and Mending Touch somewhere in there.

Lorde · Feb 25, 2007, 06:31 AM // 06:31

Wow, I didn't really expected any kinda of sugestion.. it was more of a journey of discovery thing. But any help is more then welcome.

About Crippling shot...

Barbed Trap cripple warriors for double the duration, can hit multiple targets, can't be evaded, gives bleeding and isn't a elite. Unless my sole purpose on a AT would be defend the Monk, I see little reason to use it. Heck, sometimes I don't even have a Monk on my team to defend.

Burning Arrow have a +damage modifier and the burning is nice. I could change for Broad Head Arrow but Crippiling lacks some punch imo.

I heard lots of support to Apply Poison here so I will give it another spin. 3 Conditions are better then 2, specially with removals around.

Now, don't laugh.. I never tough of actually helping others on PvP. Not like I have anything against it but with my background of Ranger / Elementalist, I am used to attack, not to defend. The Mend thing look good, specially since I don't need to stack lots of points on it to be effective.

Of course, there are too many toys and too little slots to play... I will change Blind for Apply Poison and Rend Enchantament for Mend Condition.

I prefer my trusty Barbed Trap instead of Natural Stride, but maybe I wil give it a spin someday. I just like to see the sticks poping from the ground.

So...

Blind <-> Apply Poison
Rend Enchantament <-> Mend Condition

icedwhitemocha · Feb 25, 2007, 11:30 AM // 11:30

The standard burning arrow "template" is:

12+1+1 Expertise
9+1 Marksmanship
9+1 Wilderness Survival
(assuming all minor runes)

Burning Arrow
Savage Shot
Distracting Shot
Apply Poison
Troll Unguent
Res Sig
Mending Touch
Natural Stride

Work off of that - should have everything you'll need.

Dzan · Feb 25, 2007, 02:29 PM // 14:29

One note about barbed trap: players arent PVE monsters, they wont run into your traps more than once unless they are very bad. Crippling Shot always works, Barb Trap almost never works.

When you play pvp, you should consider how good the skills you are using are versus good players only. Sure, your barb trapped will be great against terrible players, but you could beat them with anything anyway. Bring skills that beat even good players and you will be on the right track.

Swift Thief · Feb 25, 2007, 02:39 PM // 14:39

The guild [CCCP]? Wasn't that the guild that got kicked out of the Mystic Empire [ME] alliance a few weeks ago?

Thomas.knbk · Feb 25, 2007, 02:49 PM // 14:49

I must say, for someone who just started PvP and didn't get any help from others you sure learned a lot of things. More than I did the first time I entered PvP (with my 1337 lvl 13 E/R with a pet and flare).
Rangers are support characters. They're the king of interrupting (better than mesmers), and crippling shot is an extremely nice skill. You can keep several characters crippled permanently (with very high expertise).
In general, listen to Divineshadows. He knows what he's talking about when it comes to 4v4.

Relambrien · Feb 25, 2007, 03:14 PM // 15:14

Excellent job on your quick learning, things should be very good for you in the future.

Now, to offer my comments:

About Crippling Shot vs. Barbed Trap.

Barbed Trap, while crippling for double the duration, can be easily removed and takes a while to recharge. Crippling Shot, on the other hand, can let you reapply Crippled very quickly. This isn't just a support role; it can defend your allies by slowing down enemy melee, and can help you by slowing down enemies, making them easier to hit. Also, players can remember where the Barbed Trap is and just not run into it. Or, they could move around a bit in the arena and draw your team away from it. Crippling Shot doesn't have these drawbacks.

I still prefer Burning Arrow over both Crippling and Broad Head, though. It's just my personal preference. Now here's a fun thing you can do: When fighting someone with Mending Touch, their first reaction when they see Burning and Poison on them (or Crippled and Poison) at the same time is to use Mending Touch. Knowing this, you can let fly a Distracting Shot or a Savage Shot just after you use Burning Arrow, and interrupt their Mending Touch a lot of the time. It's certainly fun to do.

But that's really it. The staple Ranger build is the one icedwhitemocha posted earlier, and you can substitute in your elite of choice instead of Burning Arrow.

One last thing. As I stated before, Barbed Trap is easily countered. Natural Stride is not. Unless you have an enemy Warrior with Wild Blow, there isn't much that can remove it. If you have a Warrior coming for you, hit Natural Stride, and if necessary, run away. If the Warrior follows you, you have a very overextended target that your team can wail on.

Divineshadows · Feb 25, 2007, 03:58 PM // 15:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Relambrien

Barbed Trap, while crippling for double the duration, can be easily removed and takes a while to recharge.

I want to make it clear that barbed trap is a good skill, but is not a good skill thrown randomly onto any ranger's bar. There is a team build I enjoy playing in TA that contains a trapper as the anti-melee character:

Oath Shot {E}
Whirling Defense or Natural Stride
Barbed Trap
Dust Trap
Throw Dirt
Distracting Shot
Nature's Renewal
Rez Signet or Purge Signet

It's not a character you can play in RA, because your team will not always move to your traps when they get attacked and NR may have a greater negative impact on your team than the opposition.

Mitchel · Feb 25, 2007, 04:12 PM // 16:12

It's nice that you've become better at PvP, now the rest of the RA population.

TheOneMephisto · Feb 25, 2007, 06:00 PM // 18:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divineshadows

I want to make it clear that barbed trap is a good skill, but is not a good skill thrown randomly onto any ranger's bar. There is a team build I enjoy playing in TA that contains a trapper as the anti-melee character:

Oath Shot {E}
Whirling Defense or Natural Stride
Barbed Trap
Dust Trap
Throw Dirt
Distracting Shot
Nature's Renewal
Rez Signet or Purge Signet

It's not a character you can play in RA, because your team will not always move to your traps when they get attacked and NR may have a greater negative impact on your team than the opposition.

Why would you ever take natural stride over whirling defense on a bar with oath shot? JW

Divineshadows · Feb 25, 2007, 06:03 PM // 18:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheOneMephisto

Why would you ever take natural stride over whirling defense on a bar with oath shot? JW

Mobility and more resistant to wild blow due to shorter recharge.

African War Lord · Feb 25, 2007, 06:31 PM // 18:31

Maybe one of you guys can answer this for me. Natural stride says it ends if you become hexed or enchanted but what if you were already hexed or enchanted and then hit NS will it still work?

TheOneMephisto · Feb 25, 2007, 06:42 PM // 18:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by African War Lord

Maybe one of you guys can answer this for me. Natural stride says it ends if you become hexed or enchanted but what if you were already hexed or enchanted and then hit NS will it still work?

Yes it will. The description is quite literal.

Relambrien · Feb 25, 2007, 09:54 PM // 21:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divineshadows

I want to make it clear that barbed trap is a good skill, but is not a good skill thrown randomly onto any ranger's bar.

Yes, that's the point I was trying to make. Barbed Trap works well when the other skills on the bar complement it, but not so well when it's just a, "Hey I'll take this since I got nothing else" sort of thing.

Diddy bow · Feb 25, 2007, 10:43 PM // 22:43

Natural stride is a great skill it gives the benifit of speed and defence and unlike whiriling your never caught with it recharging. Burning arrow is the best ranger skill around for raw damage atm factoring in the degen no question about that and with apply on top you have a pretty gd build. You have more or less figured out on your own a very solid ranger build

Harvey Birdman · Feb 26, 2007, 02:52 AM // 02:52

It's great to see new players figuring out good things.

Make a bunch of different bows and change 'em up to fit the situation (ex. long bows have longer range, short bows attack quickly...). There's an NPC outside of the Temple of Balthazar that explains the differences between types of bows.

Lorde · Feb 26, 2007, 06:22 AM // 06:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Relambrien

Yes, that's the point I was trying to make. Barbed Trap works well when the other skills on the bar complement it, but not so well when it's just a, "Hey I'll take this since I got nothing else" sort of thing.

I use the Trap on the exact same fashion one use the Natural Stride, to escape. There is no rocket science behind it. Its all about positioning and chokepoints.

People say "smart people would dodge the trap"... well, all I can say is problaly RT is full of dumb people.

I need to ask.. what I will achieve running away with Natural Stride which I already don't with the Trap and my normal speed? Trapping keep me safe AND save my partners lots of time. The surprise effect it have is invaluable to me.