Curse

Fergalicious92 · Feb 15, 2007, 06:38 PM // 18:38

hellos,
My guild just started to GvG, and I was wondering if there were any suggestions on what builds it would be nice to run. We were running this yesterday and won once against a team but then got womped on the next match: 2 gank sins (also assisted in some spikes), 1 W/A caller, 1 ZB GoH monk, 1 ZB infuse, 1 Mo/E flag runner, 1 Mes, 1 blinding surge ele.
I know alot of people say to just look around and not ask for it to be handed to you on a silver platter but I have looked around, and saw alot of split or builds for more experienced teams. I don't think it is good for a guild to run split for the first GvGs. Alrighty, well thats all I have to say, so thanks in advance for any help or suggestions.

holden · Feb 15, 2007, 06:51 PM // 18:51

if you can't split or don't plan to split you'll be in a bad way when the other team does split off to your hall and you're not prepared. if you never ever want to deal with splitting choose the jade or fire isle maps. if a split team can split on you they will.

watch observer. watch some top teams and find a build you like. write down the skills each player is using. basically, steal the build and use it for your guild. use it the exact way it was run and change nothing. allow no one else in your guild to suggest changes because once it starts it never stops until the build is totally different. running the build the way you copied it down takes away any 'what if' scenarios and takes away any blame if the build isn't going well. you'll know the build works because you've seen a team be very successful with it. you'll know you're not successful for reasons besides skill sets.

imo a balanced build with the ability to split if needed is the way to go.

play a lot. practice makes perfect. don't sweat losing.

Acidic Won · Feb 15, 2007, 06:53 PM // 18:53

Sins are good for ganking in a GvG thats it. They have little defense and in order to have offense they sacrifice their defense. I would suggest subbing the sins out for other gankers such as a burning arrow and maybe a Bull's Charge or something else.

Thom Bangalter · Feb 15, 2007, 08:39 PM // 20:39

I think vibe's two warrior/two lightning hammer/one mesmer/two monk/one runner build is a great build to run; it can split if you need to, you can spike, you can pressure, and the templates are ones used up and down the ladder and get players experience behind common roles they can grow from.

Seamus Finn · Feb 15, 2007, 08:42 PM // 20:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acidic Won

Sins are good for ganking in a GvG thats it. They have little defense and in order to have offense they sacrifice their defense. I would suggest subbing the sins out for other gankers such as a burning arrow and maybe a Bull's Charge or something else.

Disagreed about the sins. Would have almost agreed but I have seen more sins popping up at the flagstand in successful but specialized builds. Either way, agreed about the proposed changes for the most part. The only thing is this: I might focus first on what classes your guildies are more comfortable in as opposed to "what you need to run." A balanced(although the term has been stretched quite a bit) build is the way to go for learning's sake, but if you don't have someone who is handy with interupts you might not want to run a burning arrow, for instance(even though they are too strong... in a good way).

Xasew · Feb 15, 2007, 09:45 PM // 21:45

Don't run 2 ZBs IMO. Too easy to overheal and miss the 10 energy.

There are tons of good builds and getting one is easy by having some common sense and watching OM. But remember:
-Don't swap people around too much and let the same people play the same professions/positions.
-If you lose, don't blame the build. Everyone loses with new builds and what you need to do is analyze why you lost and what could have been done differently.
-Don't run gay gimmicks. You won't learn much by doing that.
-Play alot. Practice makes perfect(not really, but almost).

Bankai · Feb 15, 2007, 10:18 PM // 22:18

Agreed with the above post. 2 ZBs is bad. Very bad. I'd go divert hexes or rc with one.

around · Feb 15, 2007, 10:32 PM // 22:32

I would recommend to play a split-orientated build at the start. You learn a lot of tactical awareness, plus you get to know the guild halls real fast

. However, they aren't the easiest to run at the start, so persevere.

That's basically how our guild rose from mid-table to top 200 (hopefully top 100 soon). We just run one build and stick to it and learn how to play it inside out. Try to keep players playing the same positions, or range of positions, too; however, once in a while, have a day when you all play something you don't normally do so you can learn how a different class works. Plus, diversity is always good.

Xanthar · Feb 15, 2007, 11:07 PM // 23:07

Starting out with GvG at the moment is going to be a bit tough - The ladder is still not even close to settled, meaning you'll be playing a lot of very tough opponents. This means plenty of matches against skilled opponents, and that means fast progress for you, if you know how to handle it!

In light of this, the most valuable tip anyone can ever give you has already been posted in the thread: Don't let losses get you down. Losses are your friends because it's a lot easier to learn by losing than by winning. Watch your team on obs mode: Let everyone watch themselves and comment on what they could improve on. Then have everyone look at someone else and comment on what they could do better!

Every win you fail to learn from is a loss. Every loss you learn from make you stronger.

Bankai · Feb 16, 2007, 07:14 AM // 07:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by spawnofebil

I would recommend to play a split-orientated build at the start. You learn a lot of tactical awareness, plus you get to know the guild halls real fast

. However, they aren't the easiest to run at the start, so persevere.

That's basically how our guild rose from mid-table to top 200 (hopefully top 100 soon). We just run one build and stick to it and learn how to play it inside out. Try to keep players playing the same positions, or range of positions, too; however, once in a while, have a day when you all play something you don't normally do so you can learn how a different class works. Plus, diversity is always good.

I can't really agree with you there. It's only useful if the players themselves know how to play, but the teamwork is lacking. A split build forces you to communicate and play together. However, for beginning players, split builds can be incredibly confusing, and if you lack a good monk on one of the teams, the other can't play better to make up for it, for example. While I agree that it's good to play when you're getting better, in the beginning it's more important to learn strategical placement and playing with 8 people as a whole.

Your build isn't very bad, but I'd remove the sins for something else. In my opinion, the best way to learn gvg is with pressure builds. Yes, split is also a form of pressure, but try something else, maybe.

However, the ultimate option is to press B.

Also a tip: Try to find Xanthar's 3 threads for Gvg somewhere in Gladiator's arena (I think just Guild battle). They're good.

l)l2UNl( · Mar 17, 2007, 06:39 AM // 06:39

hmm well our guild usually run thumpers

3 R/W thumps
1 P/W thump w/ fall back
1 Mo Infuser
1 Rt Spirits
1 R/Me Qz/Brambles/Nature's Renewal
1 E/Mo Flagger (should stay backline and run back to base to stop gankers. you warn others of ganks)
(sometimes we run sin instead of P/W)

before you aggro anything lay down spirits then have each of the thumpers go for a different monk. have the flagger keep a watch on radar. if you see gankers have the team take out the monks then do a 4-4 split and pull back to base 4 going one way the other 4 going other way.(also, go back to base if the flagger requires help) after the monks are taken out proceed to other casters and slowly push them back into their base. this build is meant to pressure do not stop pushing forward. however, if you are in their base and they get rezed pull back a bit out of their base and work on pushing them again. or body block the shrine. monk should be enough healing. you shouldnt die very much unless its vs a really strong spike team. In that case it is very difficult to win you have the survive the 1rst spike then it gets easier.
this build is a fairly decent build for begginners since the main tactic is a whole group push or a whole group withdraw (although we do split when we pull back)

btw the splits go:
group 1:
1 R/W
1 E/Mo
1 P/W
1 Rt

group 2:
2 R/W
1 Mo
1 R/Me

Phelann · Mar 17, 2007, 07:01 AM // 07:01

You need a more balanced split build if you are just starting out. The one I tend to think is best all around for that is the virtual dragons one:

Split war
burning arrow
center tank
mesmer
bsurge ele
monk
monk
ice ele

so its alot like what you run now. it gives you a pretty standard array of classes, an efficient split, a center spike, and alot of defense, so theres no real overpowering aspect but you do always have the opportunity to win.