Curse

InfernalSuffering · Mar 17, 2007, 09:19 PM // 21:19

Here is the link to the build: http://gwshack.us/b3ea6

Here is the link to the UPDATED build http://gwshack.us/92e77

This is not supposed to be a typical build. It is designed to be a pressure build. Assume hole Isle as Burning Isle. Split 3,4,7,8 & 1,2,5,6. I know some/many/all of you wont like some/many/all of my skill and/or skill placements. If you are going to question the skills please say which skill AND which skill you would replace it with AND why you would replace it. I will try to explain to the best of my ability all the skills if asked because they do each have a reason. I do think this may work and I dont want any comments such as "this is such crap". Constructive only. Thank you in advance.

Ec]-[oMaN · Mar 17, 2007, 09:27 PM // 21:27

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Originally Posted by InfernalSuffering

Here is the link to the build: http://gwshack.us/b3ea6

If you are going to question the skills please say which skill AND which skill you would replace it with AND why you would replace it. I will try to explain to the best of my ability all the skills if asked because they do each have a reason.

What's the point of you asking others their thoughts when you have clearly pointed out you have a reason for using your current skill choices? You basically want some kind of rebuttal feud? Seems like you have made your mind up anyways.
Lost.....

Franco Power · Mar 17, 2007, 10:01 PM // 22:01

Crip Pressure:

Your first Warrior, crippling slash is not worth the elite spot,I'd suggest taking YAA,Dragon Slash or Charge if you really want a sword warrior and besides, with a bar like that, a monk could just tank your attacks anyway, sever+gash is not enough to cause any pressure, I'd suggest replacing signet of strenght which is useless with final thrust.
Flail is also a horrible IAS choice, come on, you don't even have that much adrenaline to charge, maybe take BoA if you don't want to take Frenzy which is the best.
Strenght of honor and smite hex, okay smite hex adds some utility, and since your monk bars suck (I'll get to that later)you'll probably need it, I'd probably add signet of malice (probably better then mending touch with this build), in that bar and dash for a speed boost, I would take a Rez signet instead of renew life (paladin days are over buddy).

Charging Chain: Your second warrior,

See I don't understand this, you make one warrior dedicated to snaring your enemy, and the other one dedicated to a 33% speed boost, it doesn't really match, if I'd run a hammer warrior I'd prefeur maybe devastating hammer, backbreaker, earthshaker for damage output and knockdown, which really is why hammer warriors shine (KDs).
Enraging charge is a good skill, but you bringing charging strike aswel, still I say keep enraging charge and swap Frenzy for flail, come on flail takes 4 strikes of adrenaline to activate, signet of strenght is rubbish, take signet of malice or mending touch, your damage output, you don't even have a decent combo, Mighty blow and Staggering blow? Come on atleast Hammer bash and crushing blow in there if you're not taking a decent elite, I can see that you are trying to degen your enemy to death with this build, but against good monks that is hardly gonna happen.

Flame Support: Your paragon

Your paragon is way too energy heavy, I would take spear of lightning for song of power because of its dmg and that song of power really is not worth 25 energy, instead of Martyr, I'd take cautery signet and instead of mending touch I'd take signet of malice maybe, but that's up to you.

Condition spread: Your mesmer
Your mesmer isn't that bad, but since in GvG no one really balls up too much for fevered dreams to take infect,I'd take maybe MoR for diversion spam and power leak for glyph of concentration because of the energy loss and that a mesmer with fast casting isn't really that easy to interrupt, except for diversion. Also take a hard rez, since you should take the one of your warrior.

Necro

I think taking Reapers mark for corrupt enchantment would be better, but corrupt isn't bad either for this build, for Meekness, I'd change to Reckless haste, because you don't have to sac health, it costs less energy, recharges faster and makes your target miss. Your bar is kinda energy heavy, necros do have godmode soul reaping, but if you don't kill anything, take glyph of lesser for dark escape instead in my opinion.

Healing Tank: Your monk

Let's see you taking healing light and you do have a lot of enchantments, which most of them are crap by the way, I'd prefeur a LoD monk, or a Blessed light instead, lod is too good, come on heal party for 5 energy,
I don't like vigorous spirit, your warrior shouldn't heal himself like that and it's a enchantment that can be shattered, I would take spirit bond for that.
Elight is not good unless you running Healers Boon, too easy to interrupt, take dwaynas kiss instead much better heal and works with enchantments too,
I think I'd take holy veil for healing whisper, you have no hex removal at all, I guess you forgot that in your build, and if you don't keep those warriors clean then they going to be useless.
Divine intervention is pure crap, if you really want to save someone from a spike, take Infuse Health, I don't think I need to say why here.
And last, I'd probably take either glyph , or dark escape+return instead of the last 2 dervish skills.

Life Protector: Your second monk

You see Life sheath seems good, but that 137 dmg really is nothing, a few warrior hits on you and bye bye, I would take Zealous benediction, if you have to take a monk back atleast he can heal NPCs too with that.
Instead of shield guardian, take gift of health, you need a direct heal in the prot bar too and shield guardian is not worth 10 energy.
I'd take shielding hands or shield of absorption instead of signet of devotion, mainly because they are great spells for 5 energy and you already have direct heals with goh and zb.
Heavens delight is another crap spell and also 10 energy, take protective spirit instead, it will do more then that and it doesn't take 2 seconds to cast, only skill really worth to take 2 seconds to cast on a monk would be Aegis I think.
Last I'd take glyph of lesser and holy veil. Those 2 enchantments will only make you shatter food.

Finally your runner, I won't say much here, because I'm geting bored now, but Ward against harm is useless unless you running ele ball or something, on a runner you should take Water trident or icy shackles for knockdown and snare.

I like to waste my time writting essays and I'm going to get a life now, hope that helped a bit.

PS: Oh and by the way, I'm disapointed, you make a condition/pressure build (or try) and you don't have a BhA or Burning ranger? Come on!

TheOneMephisto · Mar 17, 2007, 10:13 PM // 22:13

... ha? There's just... a lot of stuff wrong with this build...

Thomas.knbk · Mar 17, 2007, 10:23 PM // 22:23

You haven't got a cancel stance for Flail, which you will need because people will run away from you. You don't have a speed boost, which you will need because people will run away from you. Cripple will be removed. Constantly reapllying it will drain your energy significantly. Signet of Strength's recharge is too long to let it make a difference. With SoH you won't have the energy to use Smite Hax effectively. Same for Renew Life. A hard res on a warrior is actually pretty crap. You want it on a mesmer with FC or an ele with glyphsac.
Charging Strike isn't that good. Flail isn't either. Frenzy is superior to it exept for some specific builds like a backbreaker spiker. If you have a source of weakness in your chain I see no reason not to take Fierce Blow over Mighty Blow on that warrior.
Paragons scare me. I will not comment on paragons.
People will spread out against Fevered Dreams, or they'll remove it. That's a wasted elite. PP/SD is nice in spike builds, but this is not a spike build.
The necro is the only decent character in the build imo (sorry), but you probably want Glyph of Lesser Energy instead of Dark Escape, because he is very, very energy intensive.
Basically every single skill on that first monk is crap. If you want him to be the only monk in a 4-4 split, at least give him some condition and hex removal. Armor of Sanctity is too conditional (hehe) to rely on for your self defense. There are better options.
The second monk is better. You have three skills I would consider taking there. (rof, dismiss and SoD), but the rest is pretty bad. Shield Guardian is basically a 10e 1c Reversal, Heaven's Delight's cast is too long and you can't heal your frontline with it. Life Sheath is 134 health auto-healed every 8 seconds. That's a nice effect, but not nearly nice enough to warrant your elite slot. Armor of Sanctity again is too conditional.
Godspeed is bad on a runner. It's only up half of the time. Bladeturn Refrain gets owned by weapon swapping, which your opponents will do when they see it. You can replace both Godspeed and Fall Back by one better speed boost. Frigid armor has absolutely no point. It's not like you're going to face a lot of SF runners. Freezing Gust is better than Ice Spikes. Ward against harm is bad on a runner, because wards force you to stay in them and as a runner you want to be mobile.

I'd like to hear the reasons for all those skills, but more than that I'd advice you to take a different build. Obs mode is a good source for good builds, and I could give you some too if you want.

Ec]-[oMaN · Mar 17, 2007, 10:46 PM // 22:46

I'd strongly suggest you start off with a simple balanced build. This way you learn how to spike, positioning, kiting, infusing, disruption/shutdown, how builds work, here's a simple build which can spike or apply pressure.
http://gwshack.us/b3ea6

InfernalSuffering · Mar 18, 2007, 03:59 AM // 03:59

I will start with this one and maybe if it doesnt cover the other, that one later.

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Originally Posted by Franco Power

Crip Pressure:

Your first Warrior, crippling slash is not worth the elite spot,I'd suggest taking YAA,Dragon Slash or Charge if you really want a sword warrior and besides, with a bar like that, a monk could just tank your attacks anyway, sever+gash is not enough to cause any pressure, I'd suggest replacing signet of strenght which is useless with final thrust.
Flail is also a horrible IAS choice, come on, you don't even have that much adrenaline to charge, maybe take BoA if you don't want to take Frenzy which is the best.
Strenght of honor and smite hex, okay smite hex adds some utility, and since your monk bars suck (I'll get to that later)you'll probably need it, I'd probably add signet of malice (probably better then mending touch with this build), in that bar and dash for a speed boost, I would take a Rez signet instead of renew life (paladin days are over buddy).

I dont want to take YAA (haha thats my guild...) because it requires you to not be adjacent to any allies and one of the major points of this build is to push them together. I could take dragon slash or charge but the point of crip slash is well, to crip them. I could take Final Thrust for Signet of Strength. I dont like BoA because then, when I take Final Thrust, it wont charge. My monks (as pointed out more than once) cant handle too much damage and frenzy might push it over the top. Strength of Honor adds a lot of damage over time and I see no need for a mend touch or a signet of malice because of the Martyr Paragon. I like two hard rezzes in any build and I dislike putting them on weak targets unless I have to because they get spiked more easily when casting it.

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Charging Chain: Your second warrior,

See I don't understand this, you make one warrior dedicated to snaring your enemy, and the other one dedicated to a 33% speed boost, it doesn't really match, if I'd run a hammer warrior I'd prefeur maybe devastating hammer, backbreaker, earthshaker for damage output and knockdown, which really is why hammer warriors shine (KDs).
Enraging charge is a good skill, but you bringing charging strike aswel, still I say keep enraging charge and swap Frenzy for flail, come on flail takes 4 strikes of adrenaline to activate, signet of strenght is rubbish, take signet of malice or mending touch, your damage output, you don't even have a decent combo, Mighty blow and Staggering blow? Come on atleast Hammer bash and crushing blow in there if you're not taking a decent elite, I can see that you are trying to degen your enemy to death with this build, but against good monks that is hardly gonna happen.

You are missing the main reason for Charging Strike. It provides about +38 damage as a stance which stacks with mighty blow's +38 damage so it provides +76 damage. I could take out Signet of Strength similar to my other build but I have the same reason for not taking frenzy and mend touch/signet of malice.

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Flame Support: Your paragon

Your paragon is way too energy heavy, I would take spear of lightning for song of power because of its dmg and that song of power really is not worth 25 energy, instead of Martyr, I'd take cautery signet and instead of mending touch I'd take signet of malice maybe, but that's up to you.

The paragon simply doesnt use skills for a few seconds and it is back up to full energy with Song of Power. I heavily dislike Cautery Signet because of its long cast time(2s) and its recharge is 15s instead of 10s.

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Condition spread: Your mesmer
Your mesmer isn't that bad, but since in GvG no one really balls up too much for fevered dreams to take infect,I'd take maybe MoR for diversion spam and power leak for glyph of concentration because of the energy loss and that a mesmer with fast casting isn't really that easy to interrupt, except for diversion. Also take a hard rez, since you should take the one of your warrior.

For fevered dreams, you dont need them all to ball up too much(its in the area) and you are only trying to get their backline with it. I put GoC in there because fevered dreams is important in this build and it does have a somewhat hefty cast time. I dont like taking hard rezzes on weak characters and I cant have three classes seeing as mesmers nor elementalists have a hard rez and you never said to take GoLe out.

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Necro

I think taking Reapers mark for corrupt enchantment would be better, but corrupt isn't bad either for this build, for Meekness, I'd change to Reckless haste, because you don't have to sac health, it costs less energy, recharges faster and makes your target miss. Your bar is kinda energy heavy, necros do have godmode soul reaping, but if you don't kill anything, take glyph of lesser for dark escape instead in my opinion.

I like meekness because it can be kept up the entire time as opposed to reckless haste which cant. The necro is getting help with Song of Power but yes I probably should take out Dark Escape for GoLe. I like corrupt enchantment in this because, seeing as there is no shatter on the mesmer, it helps get rid of prot spirit and spirit bond...and makes them pay for it.

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Healing Tank: Your monk

Let's see you taking healing light and you do have a lot of enchantments, which most of them are crap by the way, I'd prefeur a LoD monk, or a Blessed light instead, lod is too good, come on heal party for 5 energy,
I don't like vigorous spirit, your warrior shouldn't heal himself like that and it's a enchantment that can be shattered, I would take spirit bond for that.
Elight is not good unless you running Healers Boon, too easy to interrupt, take dwaynas kiss instead much better heal and works with enchantments too,
I think I'd take holy veil for healing whisper, you have no hex removal at all, I guess you forgot that in your build, and if you don't keep those warriors clean then they going to be useless.
Divine intervention is pure crap, if you really want to save someone from a spike, take Infuse Health, I don't think I need to say why here.
And last, I'd probably take either glyph , or dark escape+return instead of the last 2 dervish skills.

LoD is not a heal party seeing as you must be under 80% to be healed. The vigorous spirit isnt all for the warrior, seeing as when applied to the two monks they each get plus 3 regen for it. It cant be shattered seeing as shatter enchant has a 25 second recharge and spirit bond can be as easily shattered. I forgot about dwaynas kiss and that would be a much better skill than elight. I have smite hex on the warrior but I knew that was not enough and, yes, I forgot enough hex removal. The last two dervish skills are pretty much what keeps these monks alive. The paragon should be spamming barbed spear on their melee and I will put it on the bar even if it means their monk spends too much time on condition removal. Mystic Regeneration gives at least +6 regen (mystic and armor) and +9 regen (adding on vig spirit) which minus like 15 damage from melee attacks is great defense.

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Life Protector: Your second monk

You see Life sheath seems good, but that 137 dmg really is nothing, a few warrior hits on you and bye bye, I would take Zealous benediction, if you have to take a monk back atleast he can heal NPCs too with that.
Instead of shield guardian, take gift of health, you need a direct heal in the prot bar too and shield guardian is not worth 10 energy.
I'd take shielding hands or shield of absorption instead of signet of devotion, mainly because they are great spells for 5 energy and you already have direct heals with goh and zb.
Heavens delight is another crap spell and also 10 energy, take protective spirit instead, it will do more then that and it doesn't take 2 seconds to cast, only skill really worth to take 2 seconds to cast on a monk would be Aegis I think.
Last I'd take glyph of lesser and holy veil. Those 2 enchantments will only make you shatter food.

I dont think that Life Sheath is given enough credit and that it can stop more spikes than people think. I will take gift of health instead of Sig of Devo, and spirit bond instead of shield guardian(prot spirit<spirit bond). I will take holy viel instead of heavens delight though I dont think Heavens delight is such a horrible skill. Same reason for dervish skills.

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Finally your runner, I won't say much here, because I'm geting bored now, but Ward against harm is useless unless you running ele ball or something, on a runner you should take Water trident or icy shackles for knockdown and snare.

I wasnt quite sure for Ward Against Harm myself but this is primarily to throw down when at flag stand next to group because SH is getting popular and this helps a lot against that.

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PS: Oh and by the way, I'm disapointed, you make a condition/pressure build (or try) and you don't have a BhA or Burning ranger? Come on!

I dont like BhA because it has a long recharge(15s) and high cost(15e). Burning Arrow ranger would become completely irrelevant in this build because the paragon carries Anthem of Flame and enough conditions are already going around, though that at least has possibilities.

As you probably should have seen by now. I am not trying to create your run-of-the-mill build. What I find interesting are the skills people dont use for GvG that seem to me could work quite well. The purpose of this build was to see if I could use such skills like Fevered Dreams and Corrupt Enchantment and make them work even though they arent used regularly/at all.

wolfy3455 · Mar 18, 2007, 06:27 AM // 06:27

The biggest problem with your build is that you have a bunch of one dimesional character who are build accomplishing nothing outside of working towards fulfilling a condition. While this would be normal in a gimmick build, the problem with yours is that the effect of fulfilling that condition isnt very good. Since most people pointed out the character issues, I'll just respond to your response.

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Originally Posted by InfernalSuffering

I like two hard rezzes in any build and I dislike putting them on weak targets unless I have to because they get spiked more easily when casting it.

Great, except for the fact that renew life is one of the worst hard rez options out there. If you really want to use it on a warrior, use rez chant.

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You are missing the main reason for Charging Strike. It provides about +38 damage as a stance which stacks with mighty blow's +38 damage so it provides +76 damage. I could take out Signet of Strength similar to my other build but I have the same reason for not taking frenzy and mend touch/signet of malice.

No, they don't stack. Charging strike is canceled by skill activation. It doesn't stack with attack skills. The only reasons flail is usable on normal KD hammer warrior are that your second attack skill in a chain is energy based and the target is KDed. Theres no point in even having a crippling sword in your build if you're snaring your own warriors.

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The paragon simply doesnt use skills for a few seconds and it is back up to full energy with Song of Power. I heavily dislike Cautery Signet because of its long cast time(2s) and its recharge is 15s instead of 10s.

You're only getting energy out of this if everyone doesn't cast for the time. If no ones casting for that amount of time, you're giving the other team time to recover.

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For fevered dreams, you dont need them all to ball up too much(its in the area) and you are only trying to get their backline with it. I put GoC in there because fevered dreams is important in this build and it does have a somewhat hefty cast time. I dont like taking hard rezzes on weak characters and I cant have three classes seeing as mesmers nor elementalists have a hard rez and you never said to take GoLe out.

You're probably going to get more than one person with conditions with fevered dreams since it has such a large aoe. But what have you really accomplished? You're spending a full char to make your inefficient spread of conditions more efficient. You could have saved the slots by making using efficient condition spreaders. Diversion and power leak alone arent enough to provide serious shutdown.

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LoD is not a heal party seeing as you must be under 80% to be healed. The vigorous spirit isnt all for the warrior, seeing as when applied to the two monks they each get plus 3 regen for it. It cant be shattered seeing as shatter enchant has a 25 second recharge and spirit bond can be as easily shattered. The last two dervish skills are pretty much what keeps these monks alive. The paragon should be spamming barbed spear on their melee and I will put it on the bar even if it means their monk spends too much time on condition removal. Mystic Regeneration gives at least +6 regen (mystic and armor) and +9 regen (adding on vig spirit) which minus like 15 damage from melee attacks is great defense.

Theres a reason why your monks can't keep up with damage to the point where you think adding frenzy (which shouldnt be increasing the damage to your team) will overload you. If you're using HP out of LoD's conditional, you're probably overhealing aka wasting energy. The only thing that makes LoD weaker than HP in an infinite energy environment is the recharge. On mystic regen, ask yourself, would you rather have mystic regen or spirit bond on you during a spike? Its the same energy cost and cast time. If your plan is just to maintain mystic, you're wasting energy when you don't need to. Armor of sanctity is ok(still not very good) if the conditions are met, but they probably won't be. If you look at the common secondaries, people take skills that have instant activation and either seriously reduce the damage or mess with the other team's offense. Vigorous spirit is just a slow heal. Its almost like having a healing breeze. Its efficient, but not fast enough to actually help.

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I dont think that Life Sheath is given enough credit and that it can stop more spikes than people think. I will take gift of health instead of Sig of Devo, and spirit bond instead of shield guardian(prot spirit<spirit bond). I will take holy viel instead of heavens delight though I dont think Heavens delight is such a horrible skill. Same reason for dervish skills.

Its an elite that is potentially outdone by a nonelite in the same line.

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I wasnt quite sure for Ward Against Harm myself but this is primarily to throw down when at flag stand next to group because SH is getting popular and this helps a lot against that.

Do you know what else helps against SH? Not balling up and moving out of it.

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I dont like BhA because it has a long recharge(15s) and high cost(15e). Burning Arrow ranger would become completely irrelevant in this build because the paragon carries Anthem of Flame and enough conditions are already going around, though that at least has possibilities.

Rangers are efficient condition spreaders that also carry powerful interupts and potentially edenial. If you want to run a condition build, rangers would be the way to go.

Thomas.knbk · Mar 18, 2007, 10:01 AM // 10:01

I'm sure you have a reason for every skill in there, but that doesn't mean the skill choices are good. Take this build for example:
Sever Artery
Gash
Final Thrust
Sprint
Mending
Healing Hands
Healing Signet
Restore Life
It's got everything covered. It can spike with a sever/gash/final chain, if targets are kiting you simply use sprint, pressure won't work because Mending is amazingly energy efficient (18 HP/E), it's got spike healing with Healing Hands on a 1/4 sec cast time, it's got even more anti-pressure with Healing Signet (free!), and you've got your hard res covered with Restore!

See how I have a reason for every skill in that build, and I still have a horrible build?
I'm sorry to say it, but your build is pretty much like that.

Franco Power · Mar 18, 2007, 02:11 PM // 14:11

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I dont want to take YAA (haha thats my guild...) because it requires you to not be adjacent to any allies and one of the major points of this build is to push them together. I could take dragon slash or charge but the point of crip slash is well, to crip them. I could take Final Thrust for Signet of Strength. I dont like BoA because then, when I take Final Thrust, it wont charge. My monks (as pointed out more than once) cant handle too much damage and frenzy might push it over the top. Strength of Honor adds a lot of damage over time and I see no need for a mend touch or a signet of malice because of the Martyr Paragon. I like two hard rezzes in any build and I dislike putting them on weak targets unless I have to because they get spiked more easily when casting it.

YAA is very useful and if you play it, you'll see why, crippling isn't enough, the reason why Dragon Slash is better then crippling is because of it's DPS, crippling alone is not going to kill anything, and you can always add snares to the mesmer or the elementalist if it bothers you that much.
Then don't take boa, take frenzy which was my first suggestion anyway, strenght of honor really isn't that hot, and it's going to give you energy problems, like I said, you should really take frenzy/enraging/sprint/dash etc.
Renew life is just rubbish and ok a mesmer is easier to spike then a warrior, but the mesmer will take half the time you take to cast that rez.

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You are missing the main reason for Charging Strike. It provides about +38 damage as a stance which stacks with mighty blow's +38 damage so it provides +76 damage. I could take out Signet of Strength similar to my other build but I have the same reason for not taking frenzy and mend touch/signet of malice.

Charging strike doesn't stack, and you missing one of the best reasons to take a Hammer warrior, KDs. No Kds on a hammer warrior = ftl.

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he paragon simply doesnt use skills for a few seconds and it is back up to full energy with Song of Power. I heavily dislike Cautery Signet because of its long cast time(2s) and its recharge is 15s instead of 10s.

So let's see your logic is to drain all your energy then watch it going back up? Or having your whole team stand by doing nothing for few seconds like if they all had diversion on them? Should be really funny if someone spikes one of your team mates, Yes cautery signet has its drawbacks from martyr, but if you look at that Paragon bar, it is really energy heavy, and paragons don't have that much regen, don't forget you need 25 energy to cast song of power, which is why it sucks, and cautery signet costs nothing, so I suggest changing the other skills and taking song of power off, replace it with some adrenaline shout for energy management or removing Martyr.

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For fevered dreams, you dont need them all to ball up too much(its in the area) and you are only trying to get their backline with it. I put GoC in there because fevered dreams is important in this build and it does have a somewhat hefty cast time. I dont like taking hard rezzes on weak characters and I cant have three classes seeing as mesmers nor elementalists have a hard rez and you never said to take GoLe out.

I doubt a interrupter would try to interrupt fevered dreams because it's no threat, and conditions will probably get removed before it does anything
since you do need to ball up a bit. Not taking a hard rez on a mesmer and taking it on a warrior is just plain dumb sorry. Fast casting is ftw not to mention the energy of a mesmer and the energy of a warrior.
About GoLe, the reason i said take mantra of recovery so you could take some energy management skills like drain enchantment for example, then you wouldn't need gole and could take a hard rez.

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I like meekness because it can be kept up the entire time as opposed to reckless haste which cant. The necro is getting help with Song of Power but yes I probably should take out Dark Escape for GoLe. I like corrupt enchantment in this because, seeing as there is no shatter on the mesmer, it helps get rid of prot spirit and spirit bond...and makes them pay for it.

Again you are counting on your enemy to ball up for meekness to be worth anything, and if that doesn't happen then it really is a sucky hex no? About the corrupt enchantment, like i said, it's a nice elite.

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LoD is not a heal party seeing as you must be under 80% to be healed. The vigorous spirit isnt all for the warrior, seeing as when applied to the two monks they each get plus 3 regen for it. It cant be shattered seeing as shatter enchant has a 25 second recharge and spirit bond can be as easily shattered. I forgot about dwaynas kiss and that would be a much better skill than elight. I have smite hex on the warrior but I knew that was not enough and, yes, I forgot enough hex removal. The last two dervish skills are pretty much what keeps these monks alive. The paragon should be spamming barbed spear on their melee and I will put it on the bar even if it means their monk spends too much time on condition removal. Mystic Regeneration gives at least +6 regen (mystic and armor) and +9 regen (adding on vig spirit) which minus like 15 damage from melee attacks is great defense.

First if your monks are trying to keep all bars up then they are probably wasting some energy where someone doesn't need healing, if something isn't below 80% and is not being spiked or targeted, then it really isn't a emergency and you can wait for LoD. Also if you haven't noticed, your team really lacks in hex removal, so if you come up against a real hex/degen team and you don't have LoD or divert hexes? You better of saying gg and save your time.
You are counting on a mystic regen to keep you alive too much, I see it as a healing breeze, good to regen some health when you're not fighting, but a Prot spirit or a spirit bond or a infuse is what going to save you from a spike not a few pips of health regen.

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I dont think that Life Sheath is given enough credit and that it can stop more spikes than people think. I will take gift of health instead of Sig of Devo, and spirit bond instead of shield guardian(prot spirit<spirit bond). I will take holy viel instead of heavens delight though I dont think Heavens delight is such a horrible skill. Same reason for dervish skills.

I'll comment on Armor of sancity here, it looks like a nice skill, but very conditional, and if it's a warrior or a assassin or a dervish hitting on you, chances are their monks will probably clean him before a spike making Aura useless, +assassins have armor ignoring skills and dervishes have Avatar of grenth, you would better of with dark escape and return then mystic/armor in my opinion, the only thing I see you beating with this skill is maybe against noob SF teams.

Spirit bond/prot spirit > life sheath, if you don't want to take zb, then atleast take Divert hexes since your teams hex removal kinda fails and you do need those warriors clean if you want to do any pressure.

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I wasnt quite sure for Ward Against Harm myself but this is primarily to throw down when at flag stand next to group because SH is getting popular and this helps a lot against that.

that armor vs fire and other stuff, like I said, you're only counting on beating SF teams huh? I won't comment much on a runner.Is meow playing much lately? :s

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I dont like BhA because it has a long recharge(15s) and high cost(15e). Burning Arrow ranger would become completely irrelevant in this build because the paragon carries Anthem of Flame and enough conditions are already going around, though that at least has possibilities.

BhA isn't meant to be spammed, if your warrior and ranger splitted, and the other team got a monk back to protect npcs, the BhA would be your best friend, or before a spike dazing a monk also rocks, but they are better in TA, I prefeur Burning in gvg aswel.
Yes you have a lot of conditions, you have warriors and mesmers doing a rangers job, nothing better for a condition build then a /apply and a /barbed to spread conditions much better then the way you trying to do with your mesmer. But it's your build and since some people know I love rangers, I won't start a arguement here about them.

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As you probably should have seen by now. I am not trying to create your run-of-the-mill build. What I find interesting are the skills people dont use for GvG that seem to me could work quite well. The purpose of this build was to see if I could use such skills like Fevered Dreams and Corrupt Enchantment and make them work even though they arent used regularly/at all.

And I think it's good that you're not playing a cookie cutter or random build and you are trying some potential skills, good luck to you and I hope this helps a bit, originality is good and practise makes perfect, good luck to your guild and your build.

Peace~

InfernalSuffering · Mar 18, 2007, 06:02 PM // 18:02

I changed a lot of skill and I mean A LOT. Former build almost unrecognizable and most of your suggestions have been followed. The new build is here: http://gwshack.us/92e77 (also shown on original post) This time I will try to explain things before in this post.

1st Warrior-Wielding a lightning weapn he deals +14 damage and then another +5 if Signet of Strength is up. He uses shock(with kd bonus armor) and then Primal Rage. This frequently hits about 100 damage on a 60AL target. During the down time of Primal Rage, a zealous axe is swapped in and frenzy is used. Dismember is then used as well as crit chop.

2nd Warrior-Enraging Charge and Frenzy are used to build up adren quickly and then Earth Shaker, Crushing Blow, Crude Swing, and then Mighty Blow are used. Dash is used as a cancel stance.

Paragon-Team wide condition removal with Martyr/Mend Touch combo. Aria and Ballad of restoration are used for party wide heals. Anthem of Flame used to spread burning on warrior and paragon targets. Barbed spear used to add condition. Sig of Return used for hard rez.

Mesmer-MoR used for more spammability for next spells. Shame used on monks. Epidemic used to spread conditions through backline and maybe midline. Diversion used for pressure. Three interrupts used to cause pressure and power drain for energy. Res Chant used for Hard Rez.

Necro-Corrupt enchantment used to strip prot spirit/spirit bond as well as general pressure. Enfeeble used on all characters so as to well weaken them. Meekness used on their frontline so as to hamper them. Suffering used on midline/backline for degen pressure. Rigor Mortis used on warrior/para target so as to stop aegis chain/guardian. Parasitic bond as a cover hex and heal. GoLe for energy management.

1st Monk-LoD for party wide heal. Infuse health to catch spike. Divine intervention as to avoid danger of double infuse. Dwayna's kiss to provide generic heal. Signet of Devotion used to conserve energy. Holy veil for hexes. Dark escape when being trained by warriors/dervishes. Return for similar reason.

2nd Monk-Zb for good heal. Rof for generic prot help. Dismiss Condition for additional condition removal. Spirit Bond for spikes. Gift of Health additional heal. Holy veil for hexes. Same reason as above for sin skills.

Elementalist-Icy Shackles for pressure snare. Freezing gust in addition to icy shackles. Frigid Armor for armor vs physical damage and to help not burning on Burning Isle fire pits. Gale for knockdown in group or while running. Storm Haste for speed boost for running. Blinding Flash for protection while running or when in group. Mend Touch for help against sin spikes.

Vermilion · Mar 18, 2007, 06:58 PM // 18:58

Well its definately better. I honestly think Primal Rage is crap, but hey. Id run a standard shock axe in its place, and then you'd have a splittable war.Also, Crude swing is bad..try hammer bash. Then you might consider taking out mighty blow for something like prot strike, which is just awsum. (But why use things that are conventional)

Why does the paragon have to heal? Isn't that why we have monks? Id go with some defense command-style over straight healing.

Running 6 hexes on one toon doesn't mean that itll be enough. Rigor mortis is bad, try drain enchant on the mor.

Prot Spirit>divine Intervention. Still not enough hex removal -.-

Overall Im not sure why you think the other team is going to ball up so perfectly for you to use things like epidemic, etc.

Remember to fix the stats when you make major changes btw..on the necro, you can get 14 curses to reach the breakpoint for corrupt.

InfernalSuffering · Mar 18, 2007, 07:37 PM // 19:37

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Originally Posted by Vermilion

Well its definately better. I honestly think Primal Rage is crap, but hey. Id run a standard shock axe in its place, and then you'd have a splittable war.Also, Crude swing is bad..try hammer bash. Then you might consider taking out mighty blow for something like prot strike, which is just awsum. (But why use things that are conventional)

Why does the paragon have to heal? Isn't that why we have monks? Id go with some defense command-style over straight healing.

Running 6 hexes on one toon doesn't mean that itll be enough. Rigor mortis is bad, try drain enchant on the mor.

Prot Spirit>divine Intervention. Still not enough hex removal -.-

Overall Im not sure why you think the other team is going to ball up so perfectly for you to use things like epidemic, etc.

I like primal rage over evis simply because it is more suited for pressure and not a spike. Crude Swing is great with backbreaker because all likely targets to interrupt you are knocked down. Also mighty blow adds damage where prot strike does not. You are trying to set this up as more of a spike build than I would like. Paragons dont have to heal but they do have a full line donated to it. Command is an option as well but motivation skills really help monks out. I have spirit bond as well as divine intervention. As already said I dont want monks double infusing because that is potentially dangerous for a wipe. Still a little lacking on hex removal I guess so I could put hexbreaker aria on the paragon instead of one of those heal chants. I dont think they will ball up "perfectly" but teams do tend to ball up if not all the time then some of the time. You will usually be able to hit at least two people at a time with epidemic. Melee and frontline are usually on the same target so they will get hit by the same hexes.

Thomas.knbk · Mar 18, 2007, 09:56 PM // 21:56

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Originally Posted by InfernalSuffering

http://gwshack.us/92e77

OK, its better. A lot better. Still far from perfect though.

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Originally Posted by InfernalSuffering

1st Warrior-Wielding a lightning weapn he deals +14 damage and then another +5 if Signet of Strength is up. He uses shock(with kd bonus armor) and then Primal Rage. This frequently hits about 100 damage on a 60AL target. During the down time of Primal Rage, a zealous axe is swapped in and frenzy is used. Dismember is then used as well as crit chop.

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Originally Posted by InfernalSuffering

I like primal rage over evis simply because it is more suited for pressure and not a spike.

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Originally Posted by InfernalSuffering

You are trying to set this up as more of a spike build than I would like.

Please do not confuse pressure with DPS. DPS is damage per second, pressure is the art to deal more damage than your opponents can heal.
There are a lot of ways to make sure you deal more damage than your opponent. One of them is straight DPS, but that requires a rediculous amount of DPS, and is generally very easy to counter. Another is Energy denial, which works fairly well, and a third is seducing the opposing monk to throw unneeded heals and prots at their teammates. A very good way to pull off that last tactic is through spiking.
I'm not saying you should play a pure spike build. What I'm saying is that having a spike in your pressure build makes it that much stronger.
To summarize this, I'll quote a famous guild wars player:

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Originally Posted by Ensign

DPS doesn't kill people.

For that reason, take Eviscerate. You now no longer need Dismember. Take Executioner's Strike there.
Please, for the love of god, drop Signet of Strength. 50 dmg over 45 seconds is not impressive at all and not nearly worth the skill slot. Take rush there (you forgot a cancel for Frenzy)
Conjure Lightning is a good skill, but it has two disadvantages: If you train a target with Conjure Lightning on, he'll swap to a +10AL vs Lightning shield, and your warrior becomes very energy heavy. I'm not saying you should drop it though. It has advantages as well: for instance, it hits before your attack, so Reversal of Fortune is useless against you. I do think you should drop either this or shock. If you drop shock, take Bull's Strike (both are 5e, but BC doesn't cause exhaustion so it's less harsh on your energy). If you drop conjure, take Healing Signet (with air points into tactics)

Second warrior: Let me start of by saying this one is quite good.

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Originally Posted by InfernalSuffering

Crude Swing is great with backbreaker because all likely targets to interrupt you are knocked down.

Two things: first, you mean earth shaker.
Secondly, it's not great. It's better than without earth shaker, but still meh. You're not likely to hit more than 1 target. Maybe 2 occasionaly. +20 on one target is hardly game breaking, so drop it.
You've got five energy skills on a warrior (meaning, you've got five of them, not that they cost 5 energy). That's a lot. Hammer warriors shouldn't carry too much energy skills because they can't really use a zealous weapon. I'd suggest dropping Crude Swing and Enraging Charge. EC is a good skill, but energy is too important. Then take Healing Signet and Hammer Bash.
On a side note, I think W/D with Pious Haste >>> W/A with Dash.

The paragon: It's not bad I think (though paragon skills still scare me and I've never touched one), but I would like to point out Martyr is not as great as you might think. Removing a condition RIGHT NOW is often what's important, and Martyr has a 10s recharge time. Draw conditions is a lot more useful in a lot of situations, and non-elite.

The mesmer:
Epidemic is a very bad skill (you'll be surprised how small adjacent range is), and yoor build is not focused on condition pressure anymore. You will transfer nothing on noone a lot of the time.
Those three interrupts aren't needed at all. Interrputs aren’t particularily strong, and if you want to devote a character to interrupting a ranger does it 100 times better.
Powre Drain under MoR is alreeds a lot of interrupting power, and elite-like energy management in the proces.
Drop Epidemic, Power Spike and optionele Power Leak (I’m a fan of that skill) for Remove Hex/Pruge sig, Shatter enchant and optionele Drain Enchant.

The Necro:
This is a nice character (rigor mortis is bad, but hey), but really out of place in this build. You can try to make it a hex build, but then you’d have to replace the paragon for another mesmer/necro and turn the mesmer into something a little hexier.

Monks:
The monks are actuele OK now, exept for Divine Intervention. Drop that. Take dismiss instead. (yes, even with martyr or draw).

Runner is OK, but I prefer an LoD or ZB Mo/E runner because it can do a lot more against gankers, and it’s stronger support for your party too. If you take an LoD runner, change the first monk a bit.

I hope this helped you.