Curse

Jetstream · Mar 15, 2007, 07:22 AM // 07:22

My guild seems to play the gimmicks which i hate so i wanted to convince them to try something else. I dont want this to fail miserably and for them to go back to gimmicks so all help appreciated.

http://gwshack.us/89545

Just a few points.
Firstly the paragon. I know he is different and the better your opponents get the worse he gets but some guildys are still new too pvp and have trouble kiting so i was hoping this would help.
60 armor targets should be boosted too 108 vs swords axes and sythes or 132 with stand your ground.
60>136 vs piercing or 160 with syg
60>100 vs elemental or 124 with syg.
This isnt counting the +10 conditional on your armor that you should have most of the time of and armor on your weapons.

I know plans rarely last past the first 20 secs of battle but plan was for the paragon and derv to attack the same target with the ele supplying rodgort so the derv can remove enchants and the para to use a firey spear to add burning.
The warrior then attacks at oppurtunity while calling targets for the ele to follow him.
Mesmer to shutdown the rc monk if there is one.
There is limited enchant removal which could be a problem but there is power leak and disrupting chop to break aegis chain so im hoping this isnt a problem.

Thanks for your time.
:P

Div · Mar 15, 2007, 04:54 PM // 16:54

One of the biggest flaws in this build I see is the lack of ability to split. None of your chars are really self-sufficient, and it may be possibly difficult defending against splits. For that, I suggest putting heal sig in for grasping earth or having some other self heals.

You also need to figure out what you want the ele to do...be a backup flagrunner, be a warder, or pure damage. Ward against elements is probably the least effective ward you can take, since melee, stability, and foes are all more popular and in most cases better.

That paragon serves basically no point, besides encouraging your guild to be all tanks that just stand there and fight mindlessly. If your guild can't kite properly, what they need is training, not a character that handicaps them and makes it so they will never learn.

Also, single edenial is or a single fire ele with "they're on fire" is not nearly as effective as it could be. Don't try to put a little bit of everything in the build, instead try and focus on a specific goal (maybe 2 fire eles and "they're on fire" or 2 energy denial mesmers and let the paragon take a rez). Just a preference issue, but having two shielding hands (runner and monk) is not as good as SH and SoA, but it's really up to you.

Farin · Mar 15, 2007, 06:21 PM // 18:21

Melandrus derv- It's fine
Warrior- It's fine
Paragon- Drop stand you ground, they're on fire, bladeturn, watch yourself and or shields up. Add a res sig, anthem of flame, attack skills.
Ele- Drop ward vs elements use ward vs melee if you want a ward. Drop lava arrows.
Mesmer- Needs energy management- drop ether phantom and price of pride.
rest is fine

Thomas.knbk · Mar 15, 2007, 07:13 PM // 19:13

You say you're new to PvP so you might not notice this, but hexes are only good if you have lots of them. If you only have a few, they'll just be removed and they're wasted skill slots. (exeptions to that are hexes that don't need to last long to have their full effect, like Diversion or Freezing Gust) For that reason, take out Mark of Rodgort, Mind Wrack, and Price of Pride.
Ether Phantom isn't really worth it without Drain Delusions imo. I'd make the mesmer bar something like this:
Esurge (or Mantra of Recovery, very sexy with this bar)
Eburn
Diversion
Power Drain
Ether Phantom
Drain Delusions
Purge Signet
Res Chant.

On the ele, Immolate over Mark of Rotgort imo.
If you make the warrior a W/Mo with Mending Touch and Healing Signet instead of Grasping Earth and Disrupting Chop/Bull's Strike you have at least one splittable character.
Monks are fine imo.

ss1986v2 · Mar 15, 2007, 11:22 PM // 23:22

most things have been said, but ill go into them as well.

the para really needs to be reworked or dropped. i know that the newer guys might have a hard time learning how to kite when a warrior is punching them in the face, but they have to learn somehow. giving them a crutch isnt going to do it; better for them to learn it the hard way.

personally, i dont like the ele too much. if you want to get the most out of rending sweep, as well as add some cover for your mesmer hexes, id consider a N/E (reapers, faith, suffering, GoLE, ect). like thomas said, hexes are usually only good if you have a lot of them flying around, so might as well pile them on. also think a bar like thomas suggested for the mesmer would work very well. MoR with his bar is dead sexy.

id also think that you are gonna want at least one char that can split. either tweak the warrior (W/Mo with sig and mending touch) or if you decide to drop the para, maybe a BA ranger or a bull charge sword warrior. if you went with the warrior, i might think about going with a hammer on the other warrior, but thats just my preference (i love hammers at the stand). whatever you want.

the monks are fine, but you have 2 copies of shielding hands. not a big deal, but i might consider slipping in a SoA to add a little extra. as for the derv, id drop featherfoot for harriers haste. just think its a much better skill. everything else is fine as is, but ive been running my derv as a D/A for disrupting dagger. it works fine, exchanging dmg for disruption. just something to think about.

Thom Bangalter · Mar 15, 2007, 11:39 PM // 23:39

Make the ele the mindblast ele that he should be, instead of the gimped one he is. He can also run flags and split defensively with the monk if you need to.

Paragon bar could be better, i.e. drop the tactics stuff for more spear attacks like harriers and spear of lightning/one of the other ones.

I'd also run the meta-mesmer bar at the moment instead of the one you have, because most monks are mo/e and don't REALLY care if you e-deny them, the better bet is just to spam diversion on them while the front and midline beat on them, and maybe assist with a shatter from time to time.

Other than that though, like the build. Probably right about the warrior with a heal sig though, then he and the ele can split into the base if you run across hexes, and ideally you still have enough to kill at the stand if you want if they get spread too thin.

Jetstream · Mar 16, 2007, 06:34 AM // 06:34

Thanks for your help. I made a lot of changes and its now different to the kind of build i originally wanted but thats all good.

http://gwshack.us/05864

Im not too sure anyone in my guild myself included will be able to play the mom ele properly which could be a problem as he is the main defence . He is also crying out to be interrupt fodder but hey might be worth a shot as distrating shot on some skills inst too disastrous.

One question about ether phantom. Does this cause the person to lose 4 energy if its removed by a teammate? If so it really costs 9 energy to remove itif not might sub power drain for drain delusions.

Hope this splits enough.

Thomas.knbk · Mar 16, 2007, 01:37 PM // 13:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jetstream

http://gwshack.us/05864

wow dude that's a big turn around, but I likes.
A few things:
If you take Ether Phantom you have to take Drain Delusions. Drop Parasitic imo.
I don't really like Reaper's Mark with 10 Soul Reaping. I think you should drop a few points in Inspiration or Blood (or drop one of the attributes altogether) and pump SR to 14
You don't really have a spammable skill on the water ele. MoM is kind of a wasted elite then. Better take Trident or Icy Shackles, since I don't see him really running into energy issues anyway.
Mesmer is good.
Monks too.
Melee too.
Flagger too.

Div · Mar 17, 2007, 06:34 AM // 06:34

There's no real need to have high blood magic, and I'd rather put it into soul reaping, inspiration, or curses.
Also, the ele is very ineffective, and I'd rather go pure water magic with higher prot than to include the smiting with mom, since mom is pretty useless in this case. I'd rather take water attunement+water trident instead of mom+scourge, and run something like 12 water, 9 energy, and 9 prot. With this I think that ele can make a good backup runner if the team faces too much pressure and needs another monk.
For the mesmer, just remember to put the extra 2-3 points into healing

For the runner, I might go one lower divine in order to have 8 in air, but it's up to you...

MAdnRisKy · Mar 17, 2007, 03:03 PM // 15:03

ok my take? I think its a crime to run 3 enchants on a dervish and not run mystic, so I'd swap that in for wild blow.

Your ele, I like the concept, and i can see you have him as a second flagger, BUT to make that work he'll need something like trident so he's even vaguely a threat. My suggestion? drop MoM, and drop scourge, get gole and trident (and i'd be tempted to drop one of the ice prisons for deep freeze, but thats because i consider it a complete staple in any build especially a water one.

I agree with Thom about the necro

Monks, I think Divert is the meta but your milage may vary, whatever, swap spirit bond and prot spirit around, you want infuse plus sb, not infuse plus prot spirit on a spike.

Oh and think about finding room for aegis on your flagger 2 copies gets better by a lot.

But its a vast improvement on your first build and your guild will learn a lot form playing with it I hope

Jetstream · Mar 19, 2007, 07:08 AM // 07:08

Thanks for all the help.

Personally i didnt think all the extra points in soul reaping was worth it for 1 more pip of degen but majority rules i guess.

Will make the spirit bond and prot spirit swap. Dont think i need divert hexes as it has problems with sig of humility and i have 3 holy veils 2 hex breakers and a purge signet vs hex teams.

Noted about the second aegis on the runner but cant see what to drop without making him much more vulnerable when defending base gankers.

http://gwshack.us/051a9
As much as i love scourge healing i must admit i did think the ele was over complicated and not terribly efficent. Still having a problem with the ele though i want to take 8 skills in 7 slots. Want him to be able to run the flag sometimes when needed and help the monk/ele on defensive splits. Rust is great for purge signet and splitting warriors which i imagine i will encounter a lot so i dont want to drop that. I was thinking id probably have to drop glyph of lesser and rely on water attunement not being stripped or drop armor of mist and be less helpful on defensive splits or have faith in my monks and run 1 rez short.

Div · Mar 19, 2007, 03:09 PM // 15:09

Though aegis is great, I don't see as much of a point if your other monks aren't running aegis as well. Having just one isn't nearly as good as it can be, and while rust is a great aoe hex, I think it can be taken out if you use an aegis chain.