Curse

Mental Leteci · Mar 20, 2007, 09:50 AM // 09:50

Glyph isn't overpowered, it should just stay like this. If people continue with this nerfing I think that all skills will end like Glimmering Mark and other useful elites. You do realize that glyph of lesser energy is the only good thing left for energy management in HA? You can't just rush in with channeling anymore (I mean you can't, but no one normal will).

Shmanka · Mar 20, 2007, 10:10 AM // 10:10

All of these circumstancial things are really diverting the main debate.
I don't even know if the darn discussion is about Aegis or GoLE anymore.
GoLE=a GOOD skill, infact I wish MORE SKILLS were at this level of power.
It truly boosts energy management for 15 seconds out of every 30 you can use it. Great! Its less then Inspiration magic ever gave for monks back in the day, and its not ridiculous.

As for the "Free Aegis" Thats taking 4 slots between 2 monks to be considered effective and 4 seconds total of monk inactivity. Wanna call a sudden spike during that point in time? There all your situational problems got worse. I think Anet has something up their rear end because of harsh debates like this, stop using your nerf gun and shooting randomly.

There are so few staple skills like diversion/gale left, and now that imo GoLE has joined the ranks people want to nerf it... get real.

elektra_lucia · Mar 20, 2007, 10:10 AM // 10:10

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All of these circumstancial things are really diverting the main debate.
I don't even know if the darn discussion is about Aegis or GoLE anymore.

I see that it's diverting the main debate but by your logic so is discussing GoLE? The topic title is blind vs block. I do want an answer from someone, as to why aegis might be overpowered. And at what point it'd be balanced. Seems no one is logical enough to give such answer though.

You have to expect people to discuss channeling, because block - people think aegis - people think energy when they think aegis - when they think energy - go figure =P.

I personally find the hardest maps (when I'm just letting the leader direct us to death, and I don't bother saying anything) is the 3 way maps. Channeling works very nice in them.

Nubcake · Mar 20, 2007, 10:23 AM // 10:23

Aegis, despite it's cast time, energy cost, and recharge, is pretty imbalanced. It's basically an "I win" button against pressure, because against single target prot (or blind) you can switch targets, shut down the blind guy (either by diverting blind, or pressuring him and preventing him from casting as much) or remove it. Since enchantment removal is pretty narrow and weak (except for OOA, which is also imbalanced due to it's effect, and how the cost is minimized through glyphs, signets, soul reaping, or a combination of).

"Aegis, despite it's cast time, energy cost, and recharge, is pretty imbalanced"

Ok correct me if im wrong which everyone here will do since they know all about balanceing skills, but Alex {thomas bangaltar}, arent those the reasons why Aegis isnt overpowered. Cast time, energy cost, and recharge are ways of balancing skills. That sentence you wrote makes no sense to me. I dunno, maybe im not reading it right, but it sounds to me like you stated exactly why Aegis isnt overpowered tbh.

Shmanka · Mar 20, 2007, 10:39 AM // 10:39

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Originally Posted by elektra_lucia

I see that it's diverting the main debate but by your logic so is discussing GoLE? The topic title is blind vs block. I do want an answer from someone, as to why aegis might be overpowered. And at what point it'd be balanced. Seems no one is logical enough to give such answer though.

How the heck do you think I even came close to contradicting myself?
I stated my reasons on both skills being debated... on what I think. Aegis is fine IMO, I stated before I do not think it is over nor underpowered. It is fine IMO, just because it does something global for your party by the same logic Heal Party and LoD should get a kick in the pants as well.

here is your answer: Aegis is not overpowered, its just the BoA sins that are bitching cause they can't read Expose Defences. Like in all honesty it does not infact last forever, it goes along the same lines of logic when it comes to diversion on a monk. Deal with it. Melee shutdown is more and more relevant then caster shutdown due to the pure fact that Melee deals more DPS on average then other classes. Also the most relevant thing to do is abuse the fact that Aegis does not last forever, and give the monks huge pressure/spike during the 2 seconds cast time. This is not a "counter" its a method of dealing with aegis in the long run. Even if GoLE was done before thats 3.5 seconds at least to cast the darn thing. I have not yet seen 6 monks chaining Aegis and winning halls 1000x in a row to make this debate about the IMBA of aegis even credible. Its a great skill, there are way too few of these left. Leave it alone.

Sabe · Mar 20, 2007, 10:48 AM // 10:48

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Originally Posted by Nubcake

Aegis, despite it's cast time, energy cost, and recharge, is pretty imbalanced. It's basically an "I win" button against pressure, because against single target prot (or blind) you can switch targets, shut down the blind guy (either by diverting blind, or pressuring him and preventing him from casting as much) or remove it. Since enchantment removal is pretty narrow and weak (except for OOA, which is also imbalanced due to it's effect, and how the cost is minimized through glyphs, signets, soul reaping, or a combination of).

"Aegis, despite it's cast time, energy cost, and recharge, is pretty imbalanced"

Ok correct me if im wrong which everyone here will do since they know all about balanceing skills, but Alex {thomas bangaltar}, arent those the reasons why Aegis isnt overpowered. Cast time, energy cost, and recharge are ways of balancing skills. That sentence you wrote makes no sense to me. I dunno, maybe im not reading it right, but it sounds to me like you stated exactly why Aegis isnt overpowered tbh.

QFT

Imo melee defence is the key to win in nearly all pvp as deep wound is the most powerful way to kill any target plus the overall dmg caused.
Therefore to have only one char i.e a blind surge char is a dangerous way to try to shutdown melee as a mesmar can keep one char shutdown for the match via diversion.

So a bsurge ele is best way to to handle melee pressure, however its important that one of two of your other chars should have a way to counter melee pressure i.e aegis, shield of defection, wards. There should not be one solo char to handle the whole job.

pah01 · Mar 20, 2007, 11:02 AM // 11:02

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Originally Posted by Nubcake

Aegis, despite it's cast time, energy cost, and recharge, is pretty imbalanced. It's basically an "I win" button against pressure, because against single target prot (or blind) you can switch targets, shut down the blind guy (either by diverting blind, or pressuring him and preventing him from casting as much) or remove it. Since enchantment removal is pretty narrow and weak (except for OOA, which is also imbalanced due to it's effect, and how the cost is minimized through glyphs, signets, soul reaping, or a combination of).

1. Pressure builds (well Kgyu pressure anyways) used to run a two warrior two flagstand ranger template with two other characters devoted to something else. Aegis is interrupt bait which is why its not overpowered. If you are running a pressure build and your number one priority isnt to interrupt aegis then its your fault that the other team wins.

And dont reply saying "erm your dumn because you say it can be counterable hence its not broken." Permanent aegis is caused by the ability of monks to also carry this skill and so we are lead to the conclusion that...When GoLE is fixed monks wont carry aegis and it wont be chained except by idiots who you will break because they think too defensivly.

2. Glyph of lesser energy is broken. Its too good on non-elementalists.

3. As per topic - blind is useless because of some idiot at ANET who thought that making a guy immune to 50% of warrior hatred was a good idea. I want to drill "Why Nuking Sucks" into his face.

4. As for your thoughts on staple skills, I understand why you feel this way. The problem is 4 new badly designed classes, if you take out those guys from play then you will be left with a great game that has less broken stuff and its easier fixed.

Joe

TLLOTS · Mar 20, 2007, 01:02 PM // 13:02

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Originally Posted by elektra_lucia

Sure, just because there is a counter to something, doesn't make the skill balanced, right? So what can aegis be used for?

Melee.

Err... actually Aegis blocks any kind of attack, not just melee attacks.

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Originally Posted by elektra_lucia

What can -counter- aegis?

Any interupt, any knockdown, or strip enchant,

Just to nitpick some more, that's actually several enchantment strips if you intend to do anything more than spike one target.

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Originally Posted by elektra_lucia

so that's like ANY profession is able to counter aegis, and it only works against melee. Now, more importantly, look at the common (since that's the most important for now) skills.

Can a warrior interupt? Yep. Distracting blow > aegis.
Can a thumper? Yes. KD > aegis.
Do the spike teams have gaze of comtempt? Yes.
Can a ele gale aegis? Yes.
Can a sin exhaust a monk casting aegis? Yes.
Can a sin use expose defenses? Yes.

Sins don't generally interupt, but I've seen quite a few exhaust.

Can a Monk step well back from their party and force their opponents to overextend trying to interrupt Aegis? Yes.
Does overextending often work if the Monk has half a brain? No.

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Originally Posted by elektra_lucia

The cast time is long enough for an interupt to be extremely, if one was willing to interupt; therefore, at what point - energy cost, cast time, rechrge WOULD it be balanced?

I don't think altering the cost or cast time are a good way to balance the skill. The effect will either be insignificant, or it'll make the skill utterly useless.

Weakening its effect, lowering its duration or increasing its recharge however seem like solid options. Really it depends on what you want the skill to do. If you want to keep it as a partywide 50% chance to block, then chaining it constantly should simply not be possible. On the other hand, if you want to chain it constantly, then you really need its effectiveness to be lower, such as a reduced chance to block, or something else which I can't think of right now.

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Originally Posted by elektra_lucia

However, think of the penalty for NOT countering aegis from interupting? You can then strip enchant and you can still hit people a bit through it.

It's not hard, you get your melee to attack a char, the prot - prots that player (call it players 1), you then strip enchant the guy you're going to attack (player 2)...

Please oh please, tell me of this enchantment removal that you can cast so frequently as to allow for frequent target switching against a constantly reapplied Aegis. Seriously, I'd like to know.

elektra_lucia · Mar 20, 2007, 01:17 PM // 13:17

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How the heck do you think I even came close to contradicting myself?

Thread title = Blind Vs Block. ;o.

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Glyph of lesser energy is broken. Its too good on non-elementalists.

So is expel hex's on non mesmer, or skullcrack on sins not wars? Or PD on not mesmers... I get that it's an elementalist skill, but - once again, howat what point would it be balanced?

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I have not yet seen 6 monks chaining Aegis and winning halls 1000x in a row to make this debate about the IMBA of aegis even credible

Whenever I got to halls (which was a lot) and faced the over powered (pre-nerf) rt spike, I never saw rt spike win much. So that means rt spike wasn't over powered? No.

I'm not saying aegis IS over powered or -ISN'T-, but it's dumb to suggest that because it's not winning halls all the time, it's not over powered.

With that said, it's a defensive skill and actually most teams in halls do use it, so bleh.

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here is your answer: Aegis is not overpowered

Wrong. There is not my answer, but okey.

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Melee shutdown is more and more relevant then caster shutdown

Nah, that depends really. Monk is a caster. Warrior is a melee char.

One warrior disabled in the group? Livable.
One monk disabled in the group? Meh =P.

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I have not yet seen 6 monks chaining Aegis and winning halls 1000x in a row

Ugh, it's a defensive skill, not offensive... Halls isn't just about holding anymore - are you stupid?

You could have an aegis which blocked 100% attacks. you could still lose halls, the other team might just run relics faster. Your point is completely illogical.

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its just the BoA sins that are bitching cause they can't read Expose Defences.

? Why would you rely on expose defenses to fight a team that has two characters with aegis... o.0. Weird.

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GoLE is fixed monks wont carry aegis

No... Then they'll go back to using channeling :]. Then I'll be a happy panda :].

Gaurdian seemed to have been overlooked too. :].

So I'd certainly say block over blind :O.

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So a bsurge ele is best way to to handle melee pressure

I don't think so.

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Therefore to have only one char i.e a blind surge char is a dangerous way to try to shutdown melee as a mesmar can keep one char shutdown for the match via diversion.

If your team lets said player do such a thing and you keep casting while not looking at him using diversion o.o.

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Heal Party and LoD should get a kick in the pants as well.

LoD is an elite. Heal Party doesn't protect your party for a long period of time.

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Err... actually Aegis blocks any kind of attack, not just melee attacks.

Of course, but that wasn't really the point - I mean, it's used as a defense attack type chars only then. Where as, things like ROF can be used as a defense against all types of chars. Hope this is more clear for you now.

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Just to nitpick some more, that's actually several enchantment strips if you intend to do anything more than spike one target.

Wrong. If you've killed one target, you'll find it pretty easy interupting the next aegis (if you didn't get the first one).

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Can a Monk step well back from their party and force their opponents to overextend trying to interrupt Aegis? Yes.

Wrong, you don't force anyone to over extend.

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Please oh please, tell me of this enchantment removal that you can cast so frequently as to allow for frequent target switching against a constantly reapplied Aegis. Seriously, I'd like to know.

Sure, oh sure xD. Assault enchantments.

2 recharge. 5 energy, 1/4 second cast. It removes all enchantments. Must follow a dual attack, but after you've used it once, you can use it again (providing you don't attack again).

Dark apostasy can be used pretty frequently also. Then of course, normal enchant removal on a mesmer...

Also, it's not constantly re-applied aegis. My point is, you train a target - so the prot, prots this person. You work out when aegis is comming up. Your mesmer (or whatever player that has enchant removal) strips it on player B. Your warriors, sins, rangers, whatever then switch to the target with no aegis. Target dies. You don't need to remove many enchants, because by confusing the opponent you won't remove prot spirit instead of aegis. It's very simple.

Franco Power · Mar 20, 2007, 01:19 PM // 13:19

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Originally Posted by Mental Leteci

Glyph isn't overpowered, it should just stay like this. If people continue with this nerfing I think that all skills will end like Glimmering Mark and other useful elites. You do realize that glyph of lesser energy is the only good thing left for energy management in HA? You can't just rush in with channeling anymore (I mean you can't, but no one normal will).

look elektra, another bad monk !!! /sarcasmwtf

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Originally Posted by elektra_lucia

Nice of you to not answer. Thanks though.

Well your brain doesn't seem to be working. So you're welcome.

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Originally Posted by God Apprentice

Sorry but wrong. If you run 16 in prot you will get a 11 second Aegis, and if your healer runs 8 for the Aegis that is a 9 second Aegis, therefore there is a 10 seconds of cooldown until the Prot can recast Aegis

What he is trying to say is Aegis used to be used mostly only on a Elementalist with a high energy pool, who usually had no more then 9 in Prot, now with Glyph, any monk can take it with 14 in prot, +20% enchantments mod, and eliminate a lot of pressure at the cost of pratically nothing.

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Originally Posted by elektra_lucia

Can a warrior interupt? Yep. Distracting blow > aegis.
Can a thumper? Yes. KD > aegis.
Do the spike teams have gaze of comtempt? Yes.
Can a ele gale aegis? Yes.
Can a sin exhaust a monk casting aegis? Yes.
Can a sin use expose defenses? Yes.

And Again I say, listing counters does not make a arguement or says why a skill is broken, it also doesn't make you smart, I think anyone here knows already that Aegis is a enchantment and has a 2 second cast so can be interrupted (if they don't then they really shouldn't be here).

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Originally Posted by elektra_lucia

I still think (and know) channeling > GOLE.

And anyone that thinks otherwise is a bad monk to you, even thou almost everyone here thinks GoLe>channeling, but you're god.

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Originally Posted by elektra

The way I see it, sure you may get aegis for near free, with GOLE but a lot of the time the second spell you cast with GOLE isn't a 15 energy spell. So it's a sacrifice, lots of energy then - to find you miss channeling on the other spells.

Yes ofcourse, a free Aegis or a Heal party + a free zb or a spirit bond is such bad energy management /sarcams. channeling ftw spammin those 5 energy skills on the ghostly when he is holding /sarcasm!!!

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Originally Posted by elektra_lucia

I do want an answer from someone, as to why aegis might be overpowered.

I think that was already answeared.

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Originally Posted by TLLOTS

Just to nitpick some more, that's actually several enchantment strips if you intend to do anything more than spike one target.

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Originally Posted by TLLOTS

Please oh please, tell me of this enchantment removal that you can cast so frequently as to allow for frequent target switching against a constantly reapplied Aegis. Seriously, I'd like to know.

I think the only one he knows is Gaze of Contempt followed by spike in 3 2 1.

elektra_lucia · Mar 20, 2007, 01:37 PM // 13:37

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look elektra, another bad monk !!! /sarcasmwtf

Leteci isn't a great monk either. He got most of his fame playing Mesmer. Well that's what he told me when I was in sOap. Don't get me wrong, I think Leteci is a very good player in general, but he's probably quite a bad monk for the ammount of fame he has. (I certainly wouldn't want him infusing) XD.

I don't want to sound like I'm criticizing the guy, he's a good player in general. Certainly better than me, but I'm not going to be like ''oh his word is final'' because he hasn't really monked all that much.

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Well your brain doesn't seem to be working. So you're welcome.

Exciting, are all of your posts going to be about me <3.

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And Again I say, listing counters does not make a arguement or says why a skill is broken, it also doesn't make you smart, I think anyone here knows already that Aegis is a enchantment and has a 2 second cast so can be interrupted (if they don't then they really shouldn't be here).

Neither does quoting small ammounts of texts to try argue but I don't really care if saying something makes me smart. I have mensa papers for that.

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And anyone that thinks otherwise is a bad monk to you, even thou almost everyone here thinks GoLe>channeling, but you're god.

Channeling works much better on the five energy spells. The only debate was really things like chaining aegis, or 15 energy (10 at best) spells. Monking isn't all about aegis spam though is it? Therefore, channeling is better for the majority of monking.

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Yes ofcourse, a free Aegis or a Heal party + a free zb or a spirit bond is such bad energy management /sarcams. channeling ftw spammin those 5 energy skills on the ghostly when he is holding /sarcasm!!!

? Zb is free anyways. And, sure GoLE has times it can be bad energy management, because it comes at a sacrifice, you get aegis near free - but you miss out on the energy you'd get from channeling and another spell like RC.

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I think the only one he knows is Gaze of Contempt followed by spike in 3 2 1.

I really do not spike much and if I have, I've played the monk for it. I hate (in general) playing lame builds. That's rich, comming from someone who 1) ranger spiked, 2) rt spiked 3) Paraspiked, 4) bloodspiked.

But okey. Nice try. Please let's try not to keep getting personal. I know you kept messaging me for sex, and later found out I'm a guy - and it's really annoyed you. I'm sorry, but hey! Some good news for you. My girlfriend plays on my account, and she's a girl. So, it wasn't all a waste of time, who knows - you might of got to talk to a real life female o.o.

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Sure, oh sure xD. Assault enchantments.

2 recharge. 5 energy, 1/4 second cast. It removes all enchantments. Must follow a dual attack, but after you've used it once, you can use it again (providing you don't attack again).

Dark apostasy can be used pretty frequently also. Then of course, normal enchant removal on a mesmer...

Also, it's not constantly re-applied aegis. My point is, you train a target - so the prot, prots this person. You work out when aegis is comming up. Your mesmer (or whatever player that has enchant removal) strips it on player B. Your warriors, sins, rangers, whatever then switch to the target with no aegis. Target dies. You don't need to remove many enchants, because by confusing the opponent you won't remove prot spirit instead of aegis. It's very simple.

Now read this, as I've covered enchant removal already. This constant personal battle is a bit silly. Give up on it, I'm not a nice person :].

P.S. I'm playing with mostly rank0s now, for laughs. You'll be able to easily beat my teams hunny. Give yourself some confidence. Love you <3.

Sabe · Mar 20, 2007, 02:38 PM // 14:38

Elecktra, most people are easily competent enough to know to check casting if you have a shutdown char on you!!!

But a decent mesmar shuts you down when you most need your bsurge - so thats what I'm talking bout. You can spam bsurge to shorten adren gain which is not effective as it used to be with quick gains using enraging charge - shadow prison - deep wound - critcal chop.

The diversion will land on you in the spike - so you can blind the war and divert the skill or help prevent the spike. There lies the problem. Yes! Another char should be capable at stopping diversion landing at all...but dedicating resources are problems!

Also I say bsurge was the best melee defence as an only single skill to be used for it as its 90% miss chance...and easily spammed back on only without a dom mesmar on you.

Note though with some "Songs of purifications" around this is even useless too hence why I say bsurge is great to relieve pressure but it cannot be the be all and end all of your mellee defence!!!!

Thats what I mean - in theory blind would be best as a single melee defence char against pressure.

elektra_lucia · Mar 20, 2007, 03:16 PM // 15:16

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Elecktra, most people are easily competent enough to know to check casting if you have a shutdown char on you!!!

No :P.

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The diversion will land on you in the spike - so you can blind the war and divert the skill or help prevent the spike. There lies the problem. Yes! Another char should be capable at stopping diversion landing at all...but dedicating resources are problems!

Why? If they've dedicated a player to shutting you down, surely you should try sort the problem?

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Also I say bsurge was the best melee defence as an only single skill to be used for it as its 90% miss chance...and easily spammed back on only without a dom mesmar on you.

You don't really need anymroe than 50 though. 50 is enough to make monking a whole lot easier and mess's up a sins spike. For example... With that said, you'd be better having a damage class - and then something which blocks. I really think spiteful spirit is over looked a lot. Or water ele.

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Thats what I mean - in theory blind would be best as a single melee defence char against pressure.

In theory, since it's 90% and not 50% - but that's not really how it works.

Thomas.knbk · Mar 20, 2007, 05:04 PM // 17:04

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Originally Posted by elektra_lucia

Of course there is 10 energy spells. I said 15 energy spells. The ten energy ones, hmm. Most people generally don't run healers boon in HA. ZB is nice, yeah - but if someone is that low, isn't it because you didn't prot enough because you'd be too busy casting aegis?

I still think (and know) channeling > GOLE.

Casting a ten energy skill after a GoLE isn't that bad. Sure, you might as well cast a 15e one, but if Aegis is the only 15e skill on your bar and you cast a 10e skill after it, you still save 20 energy every 30 seconds, or 2 pips. 2 pips isn't bad energy management at all.

Challeling will likely surpass GoLE in effectiveness if you can reliably get a +3 from it. If you get +2's and you still gain more than 25 energy over 30 seconds, you're probably overhealing/overprotting (is overprotting a word?). Not saying GoLE is better though. Channeling is awesome on 3 team maps.

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Originally Posted by elektra_lucia

So is expel hex's on non mesmer, or skullcrack on sins not wars? Or PD on not mesmers... I get that it's an elementalist skill, but - once again, howat what point would it be balanced?

I think expel on a non-mesmer is fine. Giving up your elite slot is a quite more significant investment than a non-elite slot, and 2 hexes every 9 seconds is good, but not great.
The best suggestion I've heard for GoLE is to link it to Energy Storage and make it 'your next 1...2...2 spells cost 15 less energy'

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Originally Posted by elektra_lucia

2 recharge. 5 energy, 1/4 second cast. It removes all enchantments. Must follow a dual attack, but after you've used it once, you can use it again (providing you don't attack again).

That's actually a pretty big deal if you want to use it to remove an aegis. With a 50% chance to block your lead->offhand->dual chain has 12.5% to succeed. Your SP->black->dual chain has a 25% to succeed.
Dark Apostapy is hurt pretty bad by the 2 second cast time, and by the fact that you only have a 30% chance to actually remove an aegis with an attack. (60% chance on a crit, 50% blocked). By the time you finally hit your target you're quite possibly 5-6 seconds further. (if he didn't just run to the other side of the map during the 2 seconds you used to cast it)

Thom Bangalter · Mar 20, 2007, 05:10 PM // 17:10

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Originally Posted by Nubcake

Ok correct me if im wrong which everyone here will do since they know all about balanceing skills, but Alex {thomas bangaltar}, arent those the reasons why Aegis isnt overpowered. Cast time, energy cost, and recharge are ways of balancing skills. That sentence you wrote makes no sense to me. I dunno, maybe im not reading it right, but it sounds to me like you stated exactly why Aegis isnt overpowered tbh.

The problem is, it would be slightly more balanced if it costed 15 energy, on a 2 second cast, and had the same recharge, and glyph didn't exist, because monks wouldn't run it (RC prots would probably run it in ha in a 3 monk backline at the same robust spec, but they have 2 other monks picking up the slack for them in a theoretical return to 8-man HA). The really funny thing about glyph is, you can fake cast it and not spend any energy to fake cast it due to glyph mechanics. Glyph is a great skill since inspiration sucks shit now, but I would have rather seen the glyph buff had inspiration been left alone.

What's wrong with aegis is that it's every bit as powerful as a skill like guardian, but covers your whole team. It's on par with displacement, but displacement is a spirit, so it's easier to kill it, and displacement dies REALLY fast on its own.

And of course, you could use gaze or rend, but then you pretty much have to run a spike build, limiting build diversity.

Limiting the number of builds viable in a format makes for a game that is not that fun. It's also the same reason 3 way kill count maps are not fun, because a pressure team is probably not going to be able to score as many kills in 4 minutes as a spike team, meaning they'll probably lose, and should probably play spike. I'm all for spike builds, but the fact a pressure build is hampered a lot by aegis means the skill should be looked at, especially with the presence of glyph.

elektra_lucia · Mar 20, 2007, 05:20 PM // 17:20

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That's actually a pretty big deal if you want to use it to remove an aegis. With a 50% chance to block your lead->offhand->dual chain has 12.5% to succeed. Your SP->black->dual chain has a 25% to succeed.
Dark Apostapy is hurt pretty bad by the 2 second cast time, and by the fact that you only have a 30% chance to actually remove an aegis with an attack. (60% chance on a crit, 50% blocked). By the time you finally hit your target you're quite possibly 5-6 seconds further. (if he didn't just run to the other side of the map during the 2 seconds you used to cast it)

If you time it right it's not really. Besides, you'll take another enchant removal. Once you've used it, you can use it again and again though, which is the nice thing. It works just fine, you can use other spells which count as a leading attack that arn't actually an attack, either. :].

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I think expel on a non-mesmer is fine. Giving up your elite slot is a quite more significant investment than a non-elite slot, and 2 hexes every 9 seconds is good, but not great.
The best suggestion I've heard for GoLE is to link it to Energy Storage and make it 'your next 1...2...2 spells cost 15 less energy'

Yeah but at what point would it be inbalanced, removing 20 hexes? 10 hex's from each person on the team? You don't have to answer that, but the point is - balanced skills isn't really clear cut. I certainlly do NOT think aegis is over powered. It's way to easy to strip, to interupt and to counter.

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Your SP->black->dual chain has a 25% to succeed.

Well, whoever thinks that's the only chain you can use is a shitty assassin. In additiong, you can have expose up (if you do it right) long enough to pull of a combo to then strip enchants.

Like I say though, fairly basic enchant removal from mesmer works just fine if you time it right.

Also, shadow shroud stops enchants on target ally.

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Dark Apostapy is hurt pretty bad by the 2 second cast time, and by the fact that you only have a 30% chance to actually remove an aegis with an attack.

Yeah true, I found (tried, tested) assault enchantments to work just fine, if you time things right.

Quote:

What's wrong with aegis is that it's every bit as powerful as a skill like guardian, but covers your whole team. It's on par with displacement, but displacement is a spirit, so it's easier to kill it, and displacement dies REALLY fast on its own.

Aegis is 30 sec recharge, gaurdian 2
Aegis is 15 energy, gaurdian is 5.

If aegis IS stripped, you have to wait longer to re-cast. Gaurdian, two seconds - go figure.

It's not over powered in my opinion.

--------

Finally, on enchant removal, Order Of Apostasy. Grenth dervish. Corrupt Enchantment.
Shatter Storm. Mark Of Insecurity.

GD Defender · Mar 20, 2007, 05:31 PM // 17:31

The way I see it:

Any half-decent Monk brings condition removal. I don't PvP much, but I'd bet you only get a few seconds of use from blind before the target says something and the Monk fixes it. You can cover it to make it harder to kill, though, so it depends on how dedicated you are to keeping the target blind.

Block, on the other hand, requires Wild Blow or an enchantment removal spell, or at the very least an attack that is unblockable, to bypass. The difference here is that it's somewhat more difficult for your opponent to see it, having to watch for someone casting a block enchantment on you or you to use a block stance. Of course, as soon as they get blocked they know it's there and can react.

It's really just rock-paper-scissors, like the entirety of GW.

Shmanka · Mar 20, 2007, 05:47 PM // 17:47

Quote:

So is expel hex's on non mesmer, or skullcrack on sins not wars? Or PD on not mesmers... I get that it's an elementalist skill, but - once again, howat what point would it be balanced?

Are you intoxicated? These statements that are coming are beyond ridiculous, your claiming everyone here is deriving from the main argument yet you compared how PD is not overpowered on an ele or skullcrack on sins? People are saying Aegis is overpowered or balanced, with the aid of GoLE another debate rose how GoLE breaks Aegis more, and therefore GoLE is overpowered as well.

Can we seriously keep the topic in touch, solve this issue then be able to go home to our mothers or do I have to read this junk again and again.

+10 postcount for elektra

This thread has degenerated to Oliver the Grouch's Trashcan you can find on granola street.

Thomas.knbk · Mar 20, 2007, 05:50 PM // 17:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by elektra_lucia

If you time it right it's not really. Besides, you'll take another enchant removal. Once you've used it, you can use it again and again though, which is the nice thing. It works just fine, you can use other spells which count as a leading attack that arn't actually an attack, either. :].

Having to take enchant removal so you can use your enchant removal is pretty retarded.

Quote:

Originally Posted by elektra_lucia

Yeah but at what point would it be inbalanced, removing 20 hexes? 10 hex's from each person on the team? You don't have to answer that, but the point is - balanced skills isn't really clear cut. I certainlly do NOT think aegis is over powered. It's way to easy to strip, to interupt and to counter.

Expel Hexes would be imbalanced if it removed 3 hexes, and had a nice side effect attatched to it. Such as, target ally loses one condition and is healed for 63 health for every hex removed. Even if it costed 10 energy.
I'll give you a definition of imbalanced: If one skill > 5 classes, then it's imbalanced.
If one skill > all other skills of the same type, it's either overpowered or all those other skills are underpowered. I like Thom's comparison to Displacement. Displacement is clearly weaker than Aegis. It dies extremely fast.

Quote:

Originally Posted by elektra_lucia

Well, whoever thinks that's the only chain you can use is a shitty assassin.

Oh come on. Who in this thread ever said that? certainly not me. It was an example to point out how small the chance was to actually remove it. I used it because it's the most used sin combo at the moment, and because it actually gives you the best odds (you only need to land 2 hits with a 50% block chance instead of 3, so you have a 25% chance instead of 12.5%)

Bastian · Mar 20, 2007, 05:59 PM // 17:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by GD Defender

The way I see it:

Any half-decent Monk brings condition removal. I don't PvP much, but I'd bet you only get a few seconds of use from blind before the target says something and the Monk fixes it. You can cover it to make it harder to kill, though, so it depends on how dedicated you are to keeping the target blind.

A good B-Surge (or any character that can blind) will use it before a melee character unloads on a spike (i.e. after shadow prison, after shock, before an adrenaline spike, etc.) Therefore, it doesn't really matter how quickly it gets removed, because the spike has been stopped.

Quote:

It's really just rock-paper-scissors, like the entirety of GW.

You claim to not PvP much but yet you say this as though it is true....