Curse

Orphan Anthem · Jan 03, 2007, 01:01 AM // 01:01

I think possably some maps with random effects might cure some of this. Builds will have to take this random effects into consideration when they create a build. Well what if this happens how are we going to servive, ok our game plan should be x.

Randomway Ftw · Jan 03, 2007, 01:12 AM // 01:12

Orphan, no one cares about your rank, rank has no influence on someone's idiocy, you could be r12 and an idiot, or r0 and an idiot.

If you play HA for the first time get creamed, and quit, then you should not play HA at all. If you keep practising and learn new things you will get better, no question about it.

rustysilver · Jan 03, 2007, 01:24 AM // 01:24

-I think 6v6 should stay because it gives my guild something to do when we don't have 8 people on. This way I can enjoy my time on gw more than if I had 6 people on with nothing to do since we don't pve and TA/RA is boring to us. Even with 6v6 instead of 8v8 builds are still fairly diverse... like miniature gvg builds is how I see it.

-Find a way to eliminate holding builds... They can be really annoying sometimes... Maybe make the objective to 'hold' halls change each time. for example it will be an altar match, then the next round it will be relic map, then the next time it can be annialation, and then a priest map. The cycling will lead to more versitile builds and less altar map only builds. It could also make Halls battles more exciting.

-Keep Broken Tower a 3 team match. I used to think broken tower was one of the most boring maps to play in 8v8 times, then now that there are 3 teams trying to get 1 altar and you have to keep tabs on both of them I think it makes it much more exciting since there is more of a challenge in defeating two teams than there is in defeating one.

Messner · Jan 03, 2007, 01:31 AM // 01:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by rustysilver

-Find a way to eliminate holding builds... They can be really annoying sometimes... Maybe make the objective to 'hold' halls change each time. for example it will be an altar match, then the next round it will be relic map, then the next time it can be annialation, and then a priest map. The cycling will lead to more versitile builds and less altar map only builds. It could also make Halls battles more exciting.

New HOH Format:
4 Minute fight, the team with the least amount of DP at the end of the 4 minute period is the winner. This prevents ganging up on a single team and discourages builds built for defense and interrupting. Would this yield more offensive fast paced pressure spikes? Possibly

Orphan Anthem · Jan 03, 2007, 01:36 AM // 01:36

Maybe if a match goes TOO long some sort of enviromental effect starts that slowly eats your energy.

rustysilver · Jan 03, 2007, 01:39 AM // 01:39

Oh and I forgot....

-New title track for individual professions. Here's how it would work. For every point fame you earn playing a warrior you get 1 point towards the 'warriors hero' title track. For every point fame you earn playing a monk you get 1 point towards the 'monks hero' title track... and this would be the sme for each profession. I know this couldn't be retroactive but if implemented now it could prove useful in the future, this way you'll know if the player is experienced at the profession they are currently using. Also who is opposed to being able to earn another title?

Randomway Ftw · Jan 03, 2007, 01:39 AM // 01:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by rustysilver

-I think 6v6 should stay because it gives my guild something to do when we don't have 8 people on. This way I can enjoy my time on gw more than if I had 6 people on with nothing to do since we don't pve and TA/RA is boring to us. Even with 6v6 instead of 8v8 builds are still fairly diverse... like miniature gvg builds is how I see it.

-Find a way to eliminate holding builds... They can be really annoying sometimes... Maybe make the objective to 'hold' halls change each time. for example it will be an altar match, then the next round it will be relic map, then the next time it can be annialation, and then a priest map. The cycling will lead to more versitile builds and less altar map only builds. It could also make Halls battles more exciting.

-Keep Broken Tower a 3 team match. I used to think broken tower was one of the most boring maps to play in 8v8 times, then now that there are 3 teams trying to get 1 altar and you have to keep tabs on both of them I think it makes it much more exciting since there is more of a challenge in defeating two teams than there is in defeating one.

HA should not be secondary to GvG, it should exist side by side with it, it should not remain 6v6 because GvGers need some place to screw around when they don't have 8 on.

Stop QQing over holding builds, the most common way of holding, interupts, is dead. The only reason why builds are currently hard to kill is because of 6v6 "build wars." Most of the imbalanced ways to hold have been fixed. As I have said before just because you cannot kill a build does not make it a "lame holding" build.

You obviously enjoy GvG more than HA please stick to that and do not make HA worse for the people who actually enjoyed it.

Randomway Ftw · Jan 03, 2007, 01:41 AM // 01:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by rustysilver

Oh and I forgot....

-New title track for individual professions. Here's how it would work. For every point fame you earn playing a warrior you get 1 point towards the 'warriors hero' title track. For every point fame you earn playing a monk you get 1 point towards the 'monks hero' title track... and this would be the sme for each profession. I know this couldn't be retroactive but if implemented now it could prove useful in the future, this way you'll know if the player is experienced at the profession they are currently using. Also who is opposed to being able to earn another title?

Unnecessary, friendslist and guild ftw.

Teh Mighty Warrior · Jan 03, 2007, 01:45 AM // 01:45

*long post*

Quote:

Originally Posted by Messner

-Blood Spike: Without soul reaping from minions and spirits this build is extremely impractical. Soul Reaping is a momentum type thing allowing a team to push much the same way warriors continue to use adrenaline to it's maximum potential following a kill (especially a monk kill) and the way monks passively recuperate following an enemy death. Because a spirit inadvertently dies or is killed, the same such reward should not follow.

The reason bspike was so extremely powerful towards the end of 8v8 is because the meta had not had enough time to adjust. Bspike long ago with shadow strike vamp and barbed sig was a problem, but the "nerf" to spirits rendered it rather inaffective. 7 Oppresive 1 rt bspike became the "new" bspike because it didn't rely as heavily on spirits for energy, but instead dead corpses. Having played this bspike many times, if the opposing team was able to survive 3-4 of the first initial spikes, the "new" bspike wouldn't have the energy to keep the party alive if the opposing team was applying significant pressure. How could you do this? Shutting down 2 spikers usually did the trick Extinguish was also a viable counter. This bspike definately had an Achilles Heel.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Messner

-IWAY: Let's look at the 2 Necromancer back line of IWAY, consisting of 2 Necro/Monks fueled entirely by spamming of spirits and their soul reaping returns coupled with the killing power of the overpowered synergy between Order of Apostasy and Energizing Winds. The team basically has two monks with unlimited energy and no downside (The sacrifice on OoA is not enough to warrant a downside given the energy situation).

I have to agree with you on this, EW + OOA = overpowered. But right before 6v6, iway was pretty easy to counter as a whole. You have to remember too, OOA under nr is a 6 (maybe 8 haven't seen this skill used in a long time and am feeling too lazy to look up) second cast, quite easy to interrupt even if you have to overextend to get it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Messner

-Hex/Minion Pressure: Every character in the build aside from a Ranger spirit spammer runs on a Necro primary to abuse the Soul Reaping returns from Jagged Bones.

This is probaly the most abused instance of soul reaping, but in my opinion it isn't soul reaping that's a problem, it's jagged bones. Suprisingly enough, the 6v6 version of this relies almost 100% on the jagged horror's for energy. Call for some kind of enchant removal right before you unload your adrenaline on the jaggeds and their energy management is gone.

I believe the problem with soul reaping is not soul reaping itself, but skills such as jagged bones.

I believe several things are in order for HA to become as enjoyable as it used to be.

Revert to 8v8. This is pretty much a no-brainer. With 10 professions and hundreds of skills, it makes no sense to have 6 characters, and 42 skill slots.
Add at least 2 more annialation maps. We have what, 2 straight up 1v1 maps?
HoH needs some kind of revamp, holding builds are too prominent and make for a very stale finish.
Add new maps already, RA gets new maps before HA does, wtf? We've been stuck with these stale maps since the game came out, and then remove one instead of becoming creative *gasp* and maybe putting a wall somewhere that prevents kiting for hours?
Add some kind of new game mode. A great idea in my opinion would consist of a "mini" gvg. Complete with a flagstand, npcs, and a ghostly hero (guild lord) on randomized maps with a 10 minute VoD. Having one or two of these will put some flare in HA builds.
Most importantly, skips. I would rather have a No Opposing Party than skip to courtyard and ruin a good run.
And for GODS SAKE remove heroes and henchies from the game. I don't see the point of them now, I didn't see the point of them before, and sure as hell won't see the point of them in the future. I'm tired of fighting Zhed Shadoof and Talkora. Freaking remove them already Heroes Ascent is not PvE.

Orphan Anthem · Jan 03, 2007, 02:03 AM // 02:03

Maybe some kinda of nerf to soul reaping is needed. less range for soul reaping would be a good idea, also maybe the rate of energy.

Holding builds tho will become a problem with 8v8 and i feel was the main factor leading to 6v6

Lifeinthefridge · Jan 03, 2007, 02:05 AM // 02:05

o dont give me that bs if you havent noticed Anet isnt doing some sort of charity work here theyve set up thier bussiness model to be similar to a monthly fee and if you like the game your obviously going to buy the next chapter screwing old players wont make it any easier for new players im sorry but if I play a game I dont complain that I cant go anywhere I keep trying and for that matter I was rank 0 it was definantly harder then to get fame compared to now were as Anet hands out free fame

Randomway Ftw · Jan 03, 2007, 02:35 AM // 02:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orphan Anthem

Maybe some kinda of nerf to soul reaping is needed. less range for soul reaping would be a good idea, also maybe the rate of energy.

Holding builds tho will become a problem with 8v8 and i feel was the main factor leading to 6v6

Soul reaping has already been nerfed once for spirits, maybe it should be for minions, or maybe jagged bones should be nerfed.

The biggest way of holding in 8v8 was through interupts, few teams held through actual defense. The only blood spike that won consistently was Mordrid Knight.

Orphan Anthem · Jan 03, 2007, 02:44 AM // 02:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Randomway Ftw

Soul reaping has already been nerfed once for spirits, maybe it should be for minions, or maybe jagged bones should be nerfed.

The biggest way of holding in 8v8 was through interupts, few teams held through actual defense. The only blood spike that won consistently was Mordrid Knight.

Yeah Jagged bones means constant +energy for every necro that is what makes these necro/rit teams so powerful.

maybe some kind of change to Altercap needs to be made?

Messner · Jan 03, 2007, 02:49 AM // 02:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Randomway Ftw

The only blood spike that won consistently was Mordrid Knight.

The reason that group was so successful was because we played like a guild, there were 5-6 regulars and like 5 alternates who played when they could get on. Everyone knew their role and executed that role consistently well. Epyon was without a doubt the best BSpike caller and the only other one who even comes close in my opinion is/was Motoko.

The culmination of friends list talent and intelligent play definitely got a lot of us quite a bit of very easy fame. I'd like to add that we held more often for 40 fame wins with blood spike AFTER the soul reaping nerf than we did before it. I miss the 10 PMs after every game saying "WTFOMG do you guys have like 3 spellbreakers?!" 16DF + Blessed Aura + Spellbreaker + QZ = ROFLs

EDIT: I acknowledge the brokenness of SR via Jagged Bones and understand that that needs a nerf and I'm fairly confident in the next skill update it will be addressed. I was emphasizing that even post nerf the SR gains were still far too strong from spirits. I think the options are to either find a new inherent attribute effect for Necros or make the only trigger for soul reaping be monsters in PvE and player/bodyguard/knight/archer/thief/ghostly/priest deaths in PvP.

Randomway Ftw · Jan 03, 2007, 02:51 AM // 02:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orphan Anthem

Yeah Jagged bones means constant +energy for every necro that is what makes these necro/rit teams so powerful.

maybe some kind of change to Altercap needs to be made?

Holding through interupts is impossible now because of song of concentration.

byggryn10 · Jan 03, 2007, 07:01 AM // 07:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by leeky baby

come on ANET every wants 8V8 back HA is dead! Just go and look there are 2 districts...just 2!!! I rember when it took about 20 mins to get in ID1 with about 6/7 other districts.

/signed

Pushing Up Daisies

byggryn10 · Jan 03, 2007, 07:13 AM // 07:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by tacitus

First off thanks for limiting the number of heros i feel this is a great change

No doubt people in this thread will start on two main issues

1) roll back of fame/rank.
I dont want this to happen and believe it would be unfair for this to happen, people have spent a lot of time building up there fame and rank. There are times when getting a pve group is hard and people wearing FOW armour or have pve titles get in groups easier does this mean we should roll back all armour and pve titles? Obviously not and this applies to the pvp titles as well it just wouldnt be fair.

2) 6v6 vs 8v8
I would like it restored to 8v8 because I feel it allows your build to counter more types of builds including the gimmick builds out there. (both 6v6 and 8v8 have gimmicks to say otherwise is wrong). The main difference is 8v8 allows more counters to these builds and therefore the balance between players skill and choice of skills tilts back to player skill where I believe it should be.
6v6(chance of success) = what skills you take in.
8v8(chance of success) = more player skill

Very well put 8) Indeed the 18 months of the same maps is a bit of a head scratcher. I also miss the simple idea of anniliation maps. Now, it comes as a shock when you only face ONE opposing team (perish the thought!!!!) Taking out the ridiculous levers from Scarred (every1s FAV map

)is an option.

Pushing Up Daisies

Ecks · Jan 03, 2007, 06:18 PM // 18:18

i am personally tired of hearing people they can't get into groups because of their low rank. Everyone who actually plays HA at one point in time gone through the same issue. There will be no Rolling back on fame get over it and stop asking. I for one would love to see 8v8 come back, just because i would like to see more builds being played.

At the moment there are pretty much only a couple of builds in HA

1.Spirit spam with hexes or without. (counter spirtual pain. but you don't see it )
2.Ele ball ( Counter Choking gas. but no one really runs it anymore )
3. Paragon/Warrior fear me (a good spike or vocal )
4. Monk Spike.

Thats pretty much it. But most of the times you play HA your mostly likely to run up against Spirits. I don't believe Soul reaping needs a nerf at all its already got the nerf bat. People need to start bringing more intrupts and possibly spirtual pain but the problem is your limiting your self when you bring these classes and would not be able to hold well in HoH Or altar maps.

Bring back burial mounds!

my fav map is also Scarred earth ¬_¬

xcutioner · Jan 03, 2007, 06:43 PM // 18:43

My opinion is that ecks is a nub.

J/K! I <3 ecks. sup man.

i've thought about this thread alot and I think besides the obvious 6v6, the real core problem in ha currently is the vs setups that now force a majority of teams to lose early, keeping fame lower for the average grp and forcing fame into fewer more able hands. Even then fame you accumulate is still less than it was.

Consider just the 1st few maps leqading up to scarred earth that are key to the current HA dissatisfaction...

Previously we had this:
Map1 : 1v1 - Underworld
Map2 : 1v1 - Burial Mounds
Map3 : 1v1 - Broken Tower
Map4 : (1v1) v (1v1) - Scarred Earth

Now it's like this:
Map1 : 1v1 - Underworld
Map2 : 1v1v1 - Broken Tower
Map3 : (1v1) v (1v1) - Scarred Earth

Not only do you not accumulate fame as fast due to shorter hops to scarred earth, but you have a higher probability of losing due to broken tower's 3 way and the removal of burial mounds makes sure you cannot get a decent win count started.

These changes to the initial maps causes HA to be less fun and much more of an endless parade of the same tired builds and matches that grind on forever.

Franco Power · Jan 03, 2007, 07:31 PM // 19:31

Ok this is the first time I have been writting in this thread I think or its been a long time since I have.

Anet made heroes to let unranked players play Tombs or make it easier to get into it.
But really geting into it without heroes is not hard at all, join a guild or join pug groups or make your own, there are plenty of sites like that can help you aswel such as:

www.gwshack.us
www.guildwarsguru.com/forums
www.ventrillo.com

Start using vent, find builds that you are comfortable playing as, and make your own groups, really from my own experience, I have played with many r12s and usually they were not the ones organizing the group or giving orders or strategies, as long as you have the initiative to start your own groups, speak on vent and give people your opinions. Even if you dont feel enough confidence to this, you can always play something that people will need, example: SF,RaO,Monks,Steady stance, Spirit spamming ( now there really is no skill in spirit spamming is there?).
If people start doing this they will see really rank means nothing nowadays and its not really a problem.
I mean if you do lets say 70 fame a day ?

Thats roughly rank 6 in just 12 days.
Some people that even play more that can do more then 100 fame a day, thats r9 in 40 days, your shiny tiger emote.

All you have to do is be patience, dont rage quit, dont stress out and most of all enjoy what you are doing and put some effort and work in it.

To the people that are not understanding me or are hardcore PvE'ers think of it like, You want FoW armor, you know you are going to have to work your butt of farming ectos, or shards, or whatever it is you do, and its going to take atleast a month, well rank is the same, it takes time and experience geting it and it is a very good reward just like your FoW armor is.

Most important, if you are not enjoying the game and all you want is a emote, then dont whine about it because it is not anyones but your fault.

Besides, everyone has to start from somewhere so its nothing to be ashamed of, and about rank discrimination, if anyone gives you any crap about he/she being higher ranked then you? Simply ignore the person because he/she is a idiot. Dont go down to their level, I've seen r6s play better then r12s.

Hope that helps new players and people that are argueing about the "need" of Heroes.

Heroes are AI therefore they should stick to Player versus Enviroment, and the use of AI doesnt really sound too logic in Player Versus Player does it? No It does not make sense.