Curse

Gimme Money Plzkthx · Jan 07, 2007, 06:32 PM // 18:32

Quote:

New players found it much harder to get into groups, so they stopped coming. Older players, the sharks, who were used to feasting on newer players now found themselves in a much more competitive envirnonment and left because Halls were 'broken.'

Well, IMO it's the other way around. The older players left because a of a complete lack of competition and fun, and now it's almost nothing but newer players, and yet they still get quashed by the few older players due to a lack of easy builds. Either way, it has almost the same effect on the community.

leguma · Jan 07, 2007, 10:45 PM // 22:45

People talking about build versatility in 6v6 and 8v8 should really, really, really stop spwaing biased conclusions based on the builds they actually played or played against.

It is quite simple. In 8v8 HA the majority of teams ran 3 monk backlines, in 6v6 HA the majority of people run two monk backlines, in GvG people have ran and still run 2 monk backlines, in TA people run 1 monk backlines. if you look at the numbers, the monk to slot ratios speak volumes: In GvG you have 1 monk for every 3 other characters, in TA you have 1 monk for every 3 other characters, in 8v8 HA you have 1 monk for every 2.66 other characters, while in 6v6 HA you have 1 monk for every 2 other characters.
I am quite aware that not each and every build out there ran the same backline, and that some did not even run monks, however, the are and have always been the main trends.

The math really is quite simple, and it is no secret that GvG has always offered a lot more flexibility in dealing with situations than HA allows for. The additional monk has always been, dare I say it, necesssary in HA because of the fact that the entire game type revolves around keeping an AI NPC alive, which most of the time sits glued to the spot like something unhygenic. The fact that some of the most popular builds at the moment (jagged way, spiritspam way) do not even make use of primary monks, because they simply don't cut it, speaks volumes.

It's not about the number of slots the party has, but it is about the number of free slots that the party is free to mess around with which are determined by the slots that are locked by what the party must bring no matter what if they want to have any chance of being competitive, which in HA means keeping the ghostly alive.

Earendil · Jan 07, 2007, 11:07 PM // 23:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by sjvn

8v8 was not 'better' because of a variety of builds. Remember when the only way you could get into a group if you weren't high ranked was to play IWAY? I do. 6x6 actually makes many more build types possible. Go look. But, and this is the real reason, with 6x6 and other rule changes, there are no easy win builds for new players now. With no easy way to get into Halls, they stopped playing. Think of them as the plankton of the HoH ecosystem. ;-) New players found it much harder to get into groups, so they stopped coming. Older players, the sharks, who were used to feasting on newer players now found themselves in a much more competitive envirnonment and left because Halls were 'broken.'

Do the halls have problems? Yes. But, to boil it down to 6x6 is the real problem, misses the point. For Halls to florish, it needs to be made more new player friendly. Perhaps, two tiers of Halls were do the trick. One for R3 and below, where they can graduate to the major halls? Experienced players could also play in the 'junior' hall, but couldn't get fame from it after say R5.

Totten

Agree on many points.

Someone said on a deleted post that sharks do not eat plankton - thats true. The way I see it:

Sharks (r9) eat big fish (R6) that eat small fish (R3) that eat plankton.

(R12 are some sort of shark eating dinosaurs that are still living unfound somewhere under the water

)

With the plankton population dwindling, small fish have started to get fewer and fewer. Currently R6 teams have it very hard, being on the bottom of the chain - no wonder sharks will die too soon.

Where do fame points come from ? - from teams that join and lose. What does a rank 9 cost the Ha environment ? - to get from R6 to R9 you need 3665 fame - that roughly means 3665 teams that joined, played and lost to you, directly or indirectly (you beat the ones that beat them) so that you can get a new shiny emote (the math model is much more complex since it involves skips and multiple team maps) - its obvous that the smaller fish and plankton will not find it rewarding and will leave these waters.

Now we have a populations of very hungry and voracious sharks fame farming (and maybe big fishes) with almost no plankton and small ones - the fight will get harder. If you cant find a way to repopulate the sea - it will die.

Suggestions -

1. Cap rank at 6 or 9 - I keep hearing on these forums that R9s do not play for fame but for the challenge, the fun and their friends - lets see how they will react to this. It will also count towards PKM title.

2. Have R6 teams skip directly to Scarred earth and R9 teams directly to the courtyard - they always ask for "challenge" and "not boring matches". Leave some clear safe waters to the plankton and small fishes so they can rebuild their population.

3. As said before - do something to take R9+ out of HA - offer them something better and more appealing, like, I don't know, Automated Tournaments where they can fight their equals (I love the shark battles I see on top level GvG on GWTV). Give them 100 fame per win in those tournaments or some other shiny emotes. Getting from R9 to R12 takes....17k fame ....thats 17000 teams that join and lose just so they can mutate up.....takes some really masochistic plankton for that.

elektra_lucia · Jan 07, 2007, 11:36 PM // 23:36

Hi,

I've read numerous threads on the fors and against 8vs8. How it might be bad, worse, better blah blah... One idea which sprung to mind that no one seems to be backing up is the idea of having a maximum ammount of one type of class in a group...

Now I haven't given it loads of thought, so please don't quote and say what a stupid ridiculous idea it is BUT, if you had say the maximum ammount of players to be two, you'd rid yourself of spiking...

I personally do not like things like blood spike. For my own reasons I do not have to explain why. Maybe many others enjoy spike, maybe many others don't...

Limiting it to two, would mean 2 monks (intense for 8 people) but you could have another class to help heal. Or, make it three people. Still limiting out some builds many people dislike, like iway, bloodspike...

I don't know if two, three, four would be the correct limit to have. I figured it's in the code of the game, since you are now unnable to have too many hench's. I don't know much about coding though XD.

It was just a thought, ideas?

Earendil · Jan 07, 2007, 11:52 PM // 23:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by elektra_lucia

Hi,

I've read numerous threads on the fors and against 8vs8. How it might be bad, worse, better blah blah... One idea which sprung to mind that no one seems to be backing up is the idea of having a maximum ammount of one type of class in a group...

Now I haven't given it loads of thought, so please don't quote and say what a stupid ridiculous idea it is BUT, if you had say the maximum ammount of players to be two, you'd rid yourself of spiking...

I personally do not like things like blood spike. For my own reasons I do not have to explain why. Maybe many others enjoy spike, maybe many others don't...

Limiting it to two, would mean 2 monks (intense for 8 people) but you could have another class to help heal. Or, make it three people. Still limiting out some builds many people dislike, like iway, bloodspike...

I don't know if two, three, four would be the correct limit to have. I figured it's in the code of the game, since you are now unnable to have too many hench's. I don't know much about coding though XD.

It was just a thought, ideas?

It would not eliminate spikes - the old rainbow spike and the new Euro spike fori instance do not need more than 2 of the same. It would put artificial limits to builds : you cant have 3 monks anymore, you can have 3 eles though one is warder, you cant have 2 thumpers and a R interrupter ...etc. There are better ways to keep spike builds limited.

Randomway Ftw · Jan 08, 2007, 12:14 AM // 00:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Earendil

Agree on many points.

Someone said on a deleted post that sharks do not eat plankton - thats true. The way I see it:

Sharks (r9) eat big fish (R6) that eat small fish (R3) that eat plankton.

(R12 are some sort of shark eating dinosaurs that are still living unfound somewhere under the water

)

With the plankton population dwindling, small fish have started to get fewer and fewer. Currently R6 teams have it very hard, being on the bottom of the chain - no wonder sharks will die too soon.

Where do fame points come from ? - from teams that join and lose. What does a rank 9 cost the Ha environment ? - to get from R6 to R9 you need 3665 fame - that roughly means 3665 teams that joined, played and lost to you, directly or indirectly (you beat the ones that beat them) so that you can get a new shiny emote (the math model is much more complex since it involves skips and multiple team maps) - its obvous that the smaller fish and plankton will not find it rewarding and will leave these waters.

Now we have a populations of very hungry and voracious sharks fame farming (and maybe big fishes) with almost no plankton and small ones - the fight will get harder. If you cant find a way to repopulate the sea - it will die.

Suggestions -

1. Cap rank at 6 or 9 - I keep hearing on these forums that R9s do not play for fame but for the challenge, the fun and their friends - lets see how they will react to this. It will also count towards PKM title.

2. Have R6 teams skip directly to Scarred earth and R9 teams directly to the courtyard - they always ask for "challenge" and "not boring matches". Leave some clear safe waters to the plankton and small fishes so they can rebuild their population.

3. As said before - do something to take R9+ out of HA - offer them something better and more appealing, like, I don't know, Automated Tournaments where they can fight their equals (I love the shark battles I see on top level GvG on GWTV). Give them 100 fame per win in those tournaments or some other shiny emotes. Getting from R9 to R12 takes....17k fame ....thats 17000 teams that join and lose just so they can mutate up.....takes some really masochistic plankton for that.

I'm sorry but I think all of that is completly retarted, their is nothing currently wrong with rank if people understand that rank is a measure of HA experience and not actual skill. If noob teams fight noob teams they will learn nothing, and when they eventually rank up they will be bad players. If you cannot put up with competition form good teams you will fail, simple as that. Don't give anyone a giant easy button please.

leguma · Jan 08, 2007, 12:23 AM // 00:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Earendil

Suggestions -
2. Have R6 teams skip directly to Scarred earth and R9 teams directly to the courtyard - they always ask for "challenge" and "not boring matches". Leave some clear safe waters to the plankton and small fishes so they can rebuild their population.

You actually have the seed of a very good idea here, only instead of making some people skip existing maps, there could be a couple of new "introduction maps" put in place that would be available only to new players and would be placed before the normal ones.

The game could look at the average fame of a group, and if it is within certain intervals, like say below rank 3, the group would first go through a underworld and then a 2way broken tower so that they could grasp the basics while facing teams of equal skill players.

Not only would this allow them a more gradual learning curve, but it would also alllow them to go beyond the 1 fame runs and act as a small booster.

tacitus · Jan 08, 2007, 01:44 AM // 01:44

sorry leguma I dont agree witht that.

It would encourage people to take second accounts with no fame so others in the party can farm fame easier. Yeah the average would stop rank 9 teams but what about rank 5-6 teams that have 4 ppl on real accounts and 2 people smurfing it on zero fame the average would be reduced and it would be easy farming for those players since they are now far more likly to meet lower rank teams.

rank is not the main problem wrong with HA. there is a lot of talk about new blood needed and that is true but another issue needs to be looked at. that is retention of the people who are currently palying. There is no point trying to bring new players in when you cant keep the ones you have

I believe that Anet has an idea of what they want HA to be(stepping stone from TA to GvG). While all the old players have a different idea of what they want HA to be. (a full high end arena to go to instead of GvG). Both sides are talking about what steps to take in a direction to fix HA. However until the "end result" is discussed openly people will continue to demand different things.

Dim Luffs To · Jan 08, 2007, 02:09 AM // 02:09

I dont see a reason to stop low rank teams from facing high rank teams. TBH its the only way the know what they will be up against in HoH. Someone suggested a different arena for players below ranks, where higher rank players can play, but for no fame. Trust me when i say there are enough assholes who would go to hold halls, even if it was for no fame. Another suggestion was for 2 introductory maps for teams before going on to the loop of regular maps. Then you ahve the same problem that your complaining about, but instead of a 1 fame run, you get a 3 fame run. I believe the only way for people of lower rank to become better, is for them to play. I know a person who was r6 a little while ago, and made a build that worked well, and in less then 2 weeks was r10. ANet should not have to break its back to accomadate bad players in HA. Those low rank players who are good at the game and thus deserve to have r9 and such, will do it eventually, after they have more expierence or find a build that works well for them.

Phoenix Ex · Jan 08, 2007, 04:35 AM // 04:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Earendil

Agree on many points.

Someone said on a deleted post that sharks do not eat plankton - thats true. The way I see it:

Sharks (r9) eat big fish (R6) that eat small fish (R3) that eat plankton.

(R12 are some sort of shark eating dinosaurs that are still living unfound somewhere under the water

)

With the plankton population dwindling, small fish have started to get fewer and fewer. Currently R6 teams have it very hard, being on the bottom of the chain - no wonder sharks will die too soon.

Where do fame points come from ? - from teams that join and lose. What does a rank 9 cost the Ha environment ? - to get from R6 to R9 you need 3665 fame - that roughly means 3665 teams that joined, played and lost to you, directly or indirectly (you beat the ones that beat them) so that you can get a new shiny emote (the math model is much more complex since it involves skips and multiple team maps) - its obvous that the smaller fish and plankton will not find it rewarding and will leave these waters.

Now we have a populations of very hungry and voracious sharks fame farming (and maybe big fishes) with almost no plankton and small ones - the fight will get harder. If you cant find a way to repopulate the sea - it will die.

Suggestions -

1. Cap rank at 6 or 9 - I keep hearing on these forums that R9s do not play for fame but for the challenge, the fun and their friends - lets see how they will react to this. It will also count towards PKM title.

2. Have R6 teams skip directly to Scarred earth and R9 teams directly to the courtyard - they always ask for "challenge" and "not boring matches". Leave some clear safe waters to the plankton and small fishes so they can rebuild their population.

3. As said before - do something to take R9+ out of HA - offer them something better and more appealing, like, I don't know, Automated Tournaments where they can fight their equals (I love the shark battles I see on top level GvG on GWTV). Give them 100 fame per win in those tournaments or some other shiny emotes. Getting from R9 to R12 takes....17k fame ....thats 17000 teams that join and lose just so they can mutate up.....takes some really masochistic plankton for that.

Agreed completely. In fact Guild Wars already have a PvP mode that uses that system (looks at GvG).

Nadia Roark · Jan 08, 2007, 08:54 AM // 08:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dim Luffs To

I dont see a reason to stop low rank teams from facing high rank teams. TBH its the only way the know what they will be up against in HoH. Someone suggested a different arena for players below ranks, where higher rank players can play, but for no fame. Trust me when i say there are enough assholes who would go to hold halls, even if it was for no fame. Another suggestion was for 2 introductory maps for teams before going on to the loop of regular maps. Then you ahve the same problem that your complaining about, but instead of a 1 fame run, you get a 3 fame run. I believe the only way for people of lower rank to become better, is for them to play. I know a person who was r6 a little while ago, and made a build that worked well, and in less then 2 weeks was r10. ANet should not have to break its back to accomadate bad players in HA. Those low rank players who are good at the game and thus deserve to have r9 and such, will do it eventually, after they have more expierence or find a build that works well for them.

I'm reasonably certain that there is some mechanism at work in tombs to keep experienced teams in the same games. When I PuG with r3's and r5's through the day my experience is remarkably different than when I form guild or alliance teams with r10's and r11's. I remember even before the reviled change to 6v6 my guild teams would regularly skip to Dark Chambers in order to play the only other r10+ guild team in tombs at the time.

That said I agree; nothing makes you better faster than getting your ass whipped about a hundred times. I bet I played Underworld 30 times before I got past it on a reliable basis.

leguma · Jan 08, 2007, 11:40 AM // 11:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by tacitus

sorry leguma I dont agree witht that.

It would encourage people to take second accounts with no fame so others in the party can farm fame easier. Yeah the average would stop rank 9 teams but what about rank 5-6 teams that have 4 ppl on real accounts and 2 people smurfing it on zero fame the average would be reduced and it would be easy farming for those players since they are now far more likly to meet lower rank teams.

rank is not the main problem wrong with HA. there is a lot of talk about new blood needed and that is true but another issue needs to be looked at. that is retention of the people who are currently palying. There is no point trying to bring new players in when you cant keep the ones you have

I believe that Anet has an idea of what they want HA to be(stepping stone from TA to GvG). While all the old players have a different idea of what they want HA to be. (a full high end arena to go to instead of GvG). Both sides are talking about what steps to take in a direction to fix HA. However until the "end result" is discussed openly people will continue to demand different things.

You really have not thought this one through. First of all, rank 5-6 players are not new to HA, by that point you are looking at 600-1000 fame, which, unless you have been playing Underworld for aboyt 2 months means that you have already come to grasps with the overall workings of HA. The example I gave was quite adequate, under rank 3... that means that the group fame average would be under 180. Do you have any idea by how much a high ranked person would raise the average of a group? As for the second account with no fame, are you joking... do you realize how fast such an accout would accumulate 180 fame by doing what you describe? They'd have to buy a new account every two days to make this viable.

As has alredy been mentioned, the GvG ladder tries, I repeat tries, to match people based on ranking, which by some degree reflects skill. Why not have such a system in place for the very new people to HA. Let's face it, rank 3 is nothing in the larger scheme of things, but if you are unranked, it is a significant chllenge.
As for those saying that such things are unnecesary, I do agree on one hand, on the other hand, just because so many people had to scrounge up contacts and fame and claw their way into HA, the way pretty much everybody did before NF and heroes, does not mean that it is the way things SHOULD happen.

As for what HA should be, I totally agree that the way things are headed it does look like A.net wants HA to be a stepping stone to GvG instead of an alternative to it. I guess we'll know for sure once the event kicks in.

Messner · Jan 08, 2007, 05:59 PM // 17:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nadia Roark

I'm reasonably certain that there is some mechanism at work in tombs to keep experienced teams in the same games. When I PuG with r3's and r5's through the day my experience is remarkably different than when I form guild or alliance teams with r10's and r11's. I remember even before the reviled change to 6v6 my guild teams would regularly skip to Dark Chambers in order to play the only other r10+ guild team in tombs at the time.

That said I agree; nothing makes you better faster than getting your ass whipped about a hundred times. I bet I played Underworld 30 times before I got past it on a reliable basis.

So I can maintain this is on topic, I don't think there is a rank matchup mechanism in place we don't know about, nor should there be. The fact that you skipped was more random than anything and the fact that you skipped to a r10+ team is to me just the system at work. The higher you go, hopefully the better the team you will be playing as they've been winning consistently as well. I can assure you there are plenty of r3-5 groups who have skipped and encountered the same scenario. For those of you who say skipping needs to be removed, tell me how many more people will rage tombs if every other fight you get a no opposing party for 5-10 minutes. The design for elimination as a fundamental aspect of tombs is perfect, what they've done to the participating player base however, is not. If ANet can successfully bring players back into HA, the amount of skips will decrease and the higher end fights will actually be just that, fights, not the experienced team rolling through the unranked team who skipped.

Tiyuri · Jan 09, 2007, 01:48 AM // 01:48

Thought some of you might be interested in this:

[01:33] <[lvl200InternetPirate]Tiyuri> Hey Izzy, personal preference, which do you ENJOY playing more, 8v8 or 6v6 HA?

[01:33] <[Fi]Izzy|Work> 8v8
[01:34] <[Fi]Izzy|Work> 6v6 lacks the combo of offensse and defense and it's that fine balance that makes the combat fun IMO

That's Isiah Cartwright, the guy in charge of skill balance.

Yes it's real.

At least someone at Anet understands eh?

dmnqwk · Jan 09, 2007, 02:05 AM // 02:05

I can't say I'm much of an expert at GvG, I just listened to other people who've done it as well as my limited Rank 2 experience. (Watch as anyone rank 9 or above goes feh and ignores me!)

I think the map thing is definitely an issue, but at the same time perhaps more maps are needed, but able to split into different catergories:

Gunslinging - Straight out fights like the opener or the 4 way elimination one

Capture the Flag! - Totem running, That magical gate one I rarely play on where you've gotta get that smoke pot whatever.

That's about it, isn't it? How about some fresh ideas, as well as fleshing out those styles of map:

Take 'em down! - How about which team can kill things quicker in a head to head? Like that whack 'em game you get at the fairground... the object is to kill the most things (kills are based on damage percentage, not final hit, of a creature)... but obviously you can kill your opponents as well! (they simply respawn instantly back at some base thingy)

Let's split up - Whereby you have to allocate teams of 2 to fight together (now who gets the monk...) and it's whoever wins the most 2's (if you go to 8v8 then the quickest 2 team wins ties?)

Or you could split it into 2 teams of 4 as a variety, first 4 down loses.

More variety like this would also bring skillful players into their element, as opposed to who can bloodspike the best

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Also ban searing flames from the game, it's about time!

-------------------------------------------------------------------

As for the 6v6 and 8v8 debate, I'd prefer to see 8v8 because the more people you put in, the more variety the maps can allow.

----------------------------------------------------------------

Final thing, the rank system:

If you defeat a rank 12 team with rank 1's, and they don't quit... why do you get the same points as defeating a rank 1 team who quit because one of their lot died?

How about a more chess style approach to points:

Each Map could have a rank system, similar to monster level, and you get less points for beating a Rank 3 map as a Rank 6 team.

Map Rank * Opponents Rank / Team Rank squared = points awarded kind of deal (cap points per map somehow if you want)

Rank 1 team vs Rank 5 team on a Rank 2 map:

Rank 1 wins = 5*2 / 1 = 10 points!!!
Rank 5 wins = 2*4 / 5 = 1.6 points... seems fairer to me

That's just a basic formula however, the game would use something much more difficult taking into account highest opposition rank plus average team rank plus map rank etc

Oren The Destroyer · Jan 09, 2007, 03:03 AM // 03:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by dmnqwk

Rank 1 wins = 5*2 / 1 = 10 points!!!
Rank 5 wins = 2*4 / 5 = 1.6 points... seems fairer to me

No. How do you expect people to get above, ehh r7? You have gained .000089 fame for this win. gguninstall

streets101 · Jan 09, 2007, 03:07 AM // 03:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Earendil

Suggestions -

1. Cap rank at 6 or 9 - I keep hearing on these forums that R9s do not play for fame but for the challenge, the fun and their friends - lets see how they will react to this. It will also count towards PKM title.

That is the dumbest idea ever known to man. Rank 9+ people worked extremely hard for their standings. They do it to enjoy themselves. If rank was capped at 6 basically 80% of the Ha poplulation would have there title for Hero Track maxed, thus leading to a lack of experice being present since there will not be a higher rank than 6 in that case nobody really knows what could distinguish one glood player from another.......what your saying is the same as have no rank. The Rank 9 idea is the same some R10+ players want to play with some of the worlds best because everyone wants to win because its fun.....thus proving that capping rank at these levels (that have already been reached by an outrageous amount of people) would be a very idiotic idea.

Gimme Money Plzkthx · Jan 09, 2007, 03:08 AM // 03:08

A map that forces (and I do mean FORCE, as in you have like a 90-99% chance of losing it if you don't) would go a long way to helping weed out some HA builds. Unfortunately, it would not be the easiest thing in the world to do when it would result in two 3v3 battles...

Earendil · Jan 09, 2007, 02:59 PM // 14:59

I will sound a bit harsh here but I'll ask you for an unbiased lecture of what I am going to say. It's a point I never read on these forums or others about HA.

First - you all complain about the "errors", "mistakes" that Anet did with HA. You mention:

- No new maps. Ever.
- No new winning conditions. No new gameplay issues.
- Turning it from 8v8 to 6v6, obviously favoring build over skill. Also, as a secondary effect this has greatly reduced the odds for long HoH holdings (and big fame gains).
- Adding heroes
- Adding the 3 FFA gankfest broken tower
- Adding the "gank invitation" lever in scarred earth.

Now take a few steps back and think - when did Anet ever make such "mistakes" with another form of GW gameplay (being it PvE or PVP - RA, TA, GvG, HvH) ? Wake up people - Anet does not make this kind of "mistakes"- they are too good for this - they are no Blizzard. Adding a new map or a new winning conditions or any other gameplay improvement does not take tons of ressources - a few days of work at most. When they put the 3 way broken tower they knew exactly what the result would be - an almost random winner.

Conclusion: all the "hate" HA received was intentional - now what was the intention ?

You all demand and defend the idea of HA as a top level pvp form. This was never the intention of Anet - they already have a top level PvP form they treasure and they cater for that's called GvG (just see the list of improvements GvG got over time and how quickly any possible build > skill issue in GvG is handled). They wanted HA to be a mid level pvp form - too bad for them that people turned it into a high level one.

Anet does simply not want high ranks to stay in HA. Period. They want high ranked HA players to move to GvG. High ranked people playing HA are chasing the low-mid levels away (no matter what you say, losing 9 games in 10 is not motivating for most human beings).

That's why they are making all they can to:
- make HA a less pleasant experience to high ranks.
- identify what attracts high ranks to HA and change GvG accordingly.

It's a position they will never take or support officially cause it does not make for good PR. However, all their actions towards HA support it. If you accept this assumption - it all makes sense.

1. They never added new maps/gameplay - so high ranked get bored. Simply as that. On the other hand, gvg maps and gameplay got constant improvements (see all the new NF guildhalls for instance)

2. They constantly made modifications towards limiting the importance of playing skill: 6v6, Heroway, Broken tower, scarred lever..etc. Why do you think IWAY was not nerfed in 8 months, although obviously broken and abusable ? My take is that it allowed a less skilled group to have a chance of defeating a better group through build issues only.

3. They are modifying GvG so it can attract the top level HAers. Added Champion points. Reduced the level for champion points from 1500 to 1200. Smaller maps with fewer strategic issues. VoD at 20 minutes to make games quicker. I strongly suspect the new Automated Tournaments are also a step intended to attract high ranked HAers to GvG - since it offers a fast rewarding system compared to the delayed rewarding system for the GvG seasons.

4. By making the altar less holdable - they are targeting fame farming systems.

It all makes sense. I really expect the new HA changes to be similar in scope - intended at attracting low-mid level PvPers and making it less rewarding for top level people. It's a business model

Waiting for comments.

luilui · Jan 09, 2007, 03:30 PM // 15:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Earendil

.....

very true. If that's the case that it's entirely Anet's fault for not making it's intention clear. They first let players develop the arena then later try to destory what all these ppl have done.

If gvg could get emote and the reward is not so guild orientated(i mean if u change guild and u lost everything that u worked for), and get ur name shown in the whole game, i might not have tombed at all.