Curse

lishi · Dec 31, 2006, 08:22 PM // 20:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Randomway Ftw

Halls has been an altar map forever, the point of halls is to cap the altar and defend it against the subsequent teams. There is no build that is impossible to kill, some are very difficult but those were all created as a result of skill imbalances or bugs, which have since been fixed. Sometimes you will lose because you lack the skills to defeat a team, this has been made worse by 6v6 "buildwars". Please name the builds that are currently used that you are complaining about.

and that is a system who dont work well.

if it can be improved it should.

Orphan Anthem · Dec 31, 2006, 08:32 PM // 20:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yunas Ele

I just started playing football yesterday but they won't let me play in the super bowl. What is this rank elitism!?!?!?!

Actually on second thought my example fails. Getting a couple of people on your "G" and "N" list isn't difficult, were as getting to play in the super bowl is...

Honestly though, Orphan, if they reset fame you still won't get a team. The good people will still press "N" and "G" to make teams and you still won't get into these teams. In fact, it'll probably be even harder to get a team because a lot of people will quit meaning even less people pugging. Seriously if you spent all the time you use to come up with these silly ideas to "fix" HA playing HA itself and building up a friends list then your problem would be solved...

alright then what other options are there for newer players to get into the game?

8v8 is a obvious choice to get the old players back into the game but it dosnt do anything for the new players that try HA and get steamrolled 9 times out of 11 games.

Randomway Ftw · Dec 31, 2006, 08:49 PM // 20:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by lishi

and that is a system who dont work well.

if it can be improved it should.

The real problem is 6v6, QQing about altar maps is a distraction from the real problem. Halls was fine before 6v6, and it had a thriving community. I don't see what these impossible to kill holding builds often brought up in the discussion of altar maps are.

I don't get it, are people mad that they can't use their uber 1337 RAO, Grenth, Sand Storm, Searing Flames, and Zergway skills to hold halls?

Bacon Goes Monk · Dec 31, 2006, 08:53 PM // 20:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Randomway Ftw

I don't get it, are people mad that they can't use their uber 1337 RAO, Grenth, Sand Storm, Searing Flames, and Zergway skills to hold halls?

Yes.

1234

Legendary Shiz · Dec 31, 2006, 09:38 PM // 21:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orphan Anthem

alright then what other options are there for newer players to get into the game?

8v8 is a obvious choice to get the old players back into the game but it dosnt do anything for the new players that try HA and get steamrolled 9 times out of 11 games.

You do it like everybody else. Grind those 2/11 games till r3. Then get into r3+ groups. As you get into higher ranked groups your win to loss ratio will go up.

You people just wanted to be handed your r3. They already gave you a double fame weekend, and they already let you abuse heroes. Maybe you don't get into groups because you aren't good enough to be in certain groups. If HA is that frustrating, go to TA.

Vermilion · Dec 31, 2006, 10:02 PM // 22:02

TA needs more gimmicks for people to go there. There aren't readible accessible gimmicks like vimway and bspike etc in TA, which is a good thing.

When discussing the change to 8v8 with my guild, they were concerned that with more people, the 3 monk backline and dedicated interrupters would make matches last a lot longer. I didn't play much before 6v6 so I wouldn't really know.

Gimme Money Plzkthx · Dec 31, 2006, 10:05 PM // 22:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Legendary Shiz

You do it like everybody else. Grind those 2/11 games till r3. Then get into r3+ groups. As you get into higher ranked groups your win to loss ratio will go up.

You people just wanted to be handed your r3. They already gave you a double fame weekend, and they already let you abuse heroes. Maybe you don't get into groups because you aren't good enough to be in certain groups. If HA is that frustrating, go to TA.

QFT. A truly good and/or dedicated player will go up in rank rather quickly, and does not necessarily need help from higher ranked players. A real player will get that r3 themselves, just like most of todays higher ranks did (again, I know it's hard to believe, but we all started at r0). Another thing that came to mind as I was PvEing today was something that hasn't been mentioned yet in terms of getting newer players into the game faster. ToPK anyone? That gives you a chance to look at courtyard, HoH, scarred earth (been changed a bit since), and underworld. Newbies certainly have more tools at their disposal than when I started (well, except iway, it did serve its purpose of getting newer players into the game). To sum it all up, if one really wants to play HA, they're gonna suck it up and grind the r3.

Gimme Money Plzkthx · Dec 31, 2006, 10:07 PM // 22:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vermilion

TA needs more gimmicks for people to go there. There aren't readible accessible gimmicks like vimway and bspike etc in TA, which is a good thing.

When discussing the change to 8v8 with my guild, they were concerned that with more people, the 3 monk backline and dedicated interrupters would make matches last a lot longer. I didn't play much before 6v6 so I wouldn't really know.

You're not going to make matches longer than the hour+ matches in paragonway v paragonway, spirit spam v spirit spam, random defensive build against random defensive build. I've never had a longer match in 8v8 than in 6v6. It is just not going to happen.

Wasteland Squidget · Dec 31, 2006, 10:13 PM // 22:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Randomway Ftw

The real problem is 6v6, QQing about altar maps is a distraction from the real problem. Halls was fine before 6v6, and it had a thriving community. I don't see what these impossible to kill holding builds often brought up in the discussion of altar maps are.

I don't get it, are people mad that they can't use their uber 1337 RAO, Grenth, Sand Storm, Searing Flames, and Zergway skills to hold halls?

8v8 Halls was much much better than the current version, but it wasn't perfect. Good teams had to bring in all kinds of crappy skills to babysit the ghost (hi Spellbreaker!) which crippled them. Two good teams facing each other on a pre-HoH map always felt stupid, because both teams would have crippled builds designed to babysit an NPC. The old Halls could have been improved by maps that supported less defense and PvE AI manipulation, and more actually playing Guild Wars.

leguma · Dec 31, 2006, 10:46 PM // 22:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wasteland Squidget

8v8 Halls was much much better than the current version, but it wasn't perfect. Good teams had to bring in all kinds of crappy skills to babysit the ghost (hi Spellbreaker!) which crippled them. Two good teams facing each other on a pre-HoH map always felt stupid, because both teams would have crippled builds designed to babysit an NPC. The old Halls could have been improved by maps that supported less defense and PvE AI manipulation, and more actually playing Guild Wars.

This is the real issue IMO. Even in the 8v8 HA teams ran three monk baklines while in GvG they were are and prolly continue to be two monk backlines. The Ghostly Hero and the way altar maps work force you into taking a lot more defense than you normally would for players that can actually kite. Seriously now... it took them about six months to make mobs move out of AoE, it took them a year to make henchmen do the same thing, how long will it take to make the Ghostly Hero do the same thing?

Another thing that crosses my mind is that since the game was released, most of the changes made to HA have been cosmetic/superficial, so whatever comes of all this reworking of HA is probably going to be around for aaaaages. Just hope its mostly good.

Bacon Goes Monk · Jan 01, 2007, 12:49 AM // 00:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wasteland Squidget

8v8 Halls was much much better than the current version, but it wasn't perfect. Good teams had to bring in all kinds of crappy skills to babysit the ghost (hi Spellbreaker!) which crippled them. Two good teams facing each other on a pre-HoH map always felt stupid, because both teams would have crippled builds designed to babysit an NPC. The old Halls could have been improved by maps that supported less defense and PvE AI manipulation, and more actually playing Guild Wars.

Spellbreaker wasn't a crappy skill. It let your warrior freely attack for a bit vs a spiteful necro. It kept your ele safe to get off that one spell which killed a monk vs migrainers. It kept a dp'ed target, or the infuser himself, safe for a bit vs spikes. Doesn't sound too crappy to me.

Loot Junkie · Jan 01, 2007, 03:15 AM // 03:15

Thanks for the attention Gaile; here's my 2 cents worth on my pvp/HA experience during the time that I've played GW; (yes I'm aware of the topic of this thread, please note the development of my pvp interest)

Phase1 - Bought "Prophecies" in May/2005, first RPG ever for me. Wasn't even remotely interested in pvp at the time, just wanted to soak in the pve experience and acquire high-end items since I found this the most enjoyable aspect of the game.

Phase2 - Bought "Factions" one year later. By this time I'm pretty bored with pve but I feel intimidated by HA. That's ok since the guildies and myself are having fun in Fort Aspenwood and Alliance Battles. This is my introduction to actually playing pvp, wasn't as scary as i thought it would be!

Phase3 - August/2006; By this time I have 8 fame points and the double-fame laborday weekend event is on, I go from R0 to R3. Even though I'm a noob, I'm having fun and winning the first 2 maps 33-50% of the time. By this time I live eat and breathe HA and want to learn all that I can about individual builds/team builds/skills.

Phase4 - Bought "Nightfall" the instant that I could. I've been studying all the new NF skills and have been thinking about all the different builds I could make, enthusiasm is running high. For some inexplicable reason, HA is 6v6 and there are heroes everywhere. 6v6 seems a little subdued compared to 8v8 but I'm not all that bothered by it yet. Where did the Burial Mounds map go? Why does only 1 team out of 3 get to go on after just the 2nd map? Due to all the heroway teams out there, all of a sudden HA doesn't interest me all that much anymore (no challenge and the fame points don't seem to mean anything) and so I focus on the pve side of NF even though it's boring to me.

Phase5 - Dec./2006 After 1.5 years and 4000 hours spent on my GW account, I really don't have much enthusiasm for the game anymore. At least they got rid of "Heroway". I've tried to HA but there are insane necro/rit builds everywhere. When I watch "HA television" I see the same exact rit/, necro/rit, necro/monk backline time after time with variations for the offensive frontline. I would join the parade and go in HA with my necro but I despise copying fotm builds(never once did IWAY). We used to form a guild group and achieve some success, sometimes even winning and holding halls, but now its harder to get fame than when I was R3 since we want to run original builds only. We have tried to form teams to counter all this fotm stuff, but the 6 player format makes this all but impossible to do.

Phase6 - Most of my guildies and I have pretty much given up on HA since we find it unrewarding since the fun is gone. The only hope I have is that the powers-that-be at ANET will realize that the majority of people on this thread want the same thing; the return of 8v8 in HA. I hope that they are listening.

Apok Omen · Jan 01, 2007, 03:25 AM // 03:25

Of course Anet is listening. It is just their decision, their game. The problem they are facing is what will the community want after they give 8v8 HA back? It would bring us some satisfaction, but only for a few seconds. Then we will want more. Right now, they are being overwhelmed by everyone requesting more changes than ever. Give them some time.

tomcruisejr · Jan 01, 2007, 04:04 AM // 04:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orphan Anthem

8v8 is a obvious choice to get the old players back into the game but it dosnt do anything for the new players that try HA and get steamrolled 9 times out of 11 games.

old players paid the game already so why care about them?. new players = additional revenue. the more new players pleased, the more money received. the more you discourage and frustrate your new players, the more you lose $$ over time.

whereas in pay to play system, it's the old players who are giving the constant supply of $$. and last time i check, Guild Wars is not pay to play.

tacitus · Jan 01, 2007, 04:16 AM // 04:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomcruisejr

old players paid the game already so why care about them?. new players = additional revenue. the more new players pleased, the more money received. the more you discourage and frustrate your new players, the more you lose $$ over time.

whereas in pay to play system, it's the old players who are giving the constant supply of $$. and last time i check, Guild Wars is not pay to play.

Because a lot of people buy the game on recomendation of their friends and such as opposed to just picking a game at random out the store. If existing players are not happy with the game it would put off of potential new players that may have bought the game due to real life friends saying how good it is.

Having people you know in real life in the game is a huge bonus, however if they all say dont bother the state of the game is rubbish and nothing seems to get fixed then those new players will just get a different game out of the store.

tomcruisejr · Jan 01, 2007, 04:44 AM // 04:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by tacitus

Because a lot of people buy the game on recomendation of their friends and such as opposed to just picking a game at random out the store.

what's the point of having their boxes displayed in Best Buy, Compusa, etc then if a lot of the new players are all friends of existing players (other than maybe the friend wants to buy the boxed item coz he wants to collect the game release boxes or they don't have or don't wanna use their CC)?

B Ephekt · Jan 01, 2007, 05:43 AM // 05:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orphan Anthem

alright then what other options are there for newer players to get into the game?

Make friends or join an guild and play instead of whining on forums? Just a thought...

Quote:

8v8 is a obvious choice to get the old players back into the game but it dosnt do anything for the new players that try HA and get steamrolled 9 times out of 11 games.

Players who get rolled 9 out of 11 matches can simply get better. It's pretty stupid to expect Anet to cater to bad/new players when pvp is based around competition.

Vermilion · Jan 01, 2007, 06:18 AM // 06:18

For new players, its a lot easier to join a guild that HAs than the other options. Ive never been much of a people person, so building a friends list never really...happened. That, and I played gimmicks that didn't show any kind of player skill anyway. Our guild group beat halls a little while ago, and although we got kicked out immediatedly by DKT, it was still a first for me. (3 fame..woo) Played [iH] a couple times (Yunas, Natures Renewal groups) and those were good fun.

Besides the halls run though, it wasn't particularly fun or worthwhile. Saw only a couple dismal pugs, 2 henchways, and a jagged bones. *Every other group was spirit backline.* We ran a balanced of sorts, nothing amazing.

Every group has some combination of trappers, rt spammers, n/rt+n/mo, Thumpers, grenth dervs, SP wars, SS warders, and misc monks. -.-

Loot Junkie · Jan 01, 2007, 07:47 AM // 07:47

I decided to try a little experiment tonight and went into HA with my necro looking for some action on a rit spammer/necro backline team. It was as puggish as it gets; the dude assembling the team didnt speak very good english, we had no ventrilo, we had a R0 about to go R1, we had a R3 about to turn R4; I am currently R5, but I didnt know the finer points of running the N/Rt build. The team build was 2 N/Rt's, 1 N/Mo, 2 RaO's and a R/P. Considering what HA is SUPPOSED to be about, we should not have gotten very far. Instead, we steam rolled all the way to halls and lost to a better spirit spammer/necro team using minions. We weren't taking much damage in halls, but our team didnt really understand the fine art of altar capping. The other team that lost cursed us out for playing like noobs, giving us counsel afterward on how to properly play an altar map. Along the way we beat some people whose IGN's I recognized, people who are far better HA players than myself or my teammates. My teammates were uttering comments along the way that only newer players would say, such as "woot, I have a skillpoint, I'm almost R1 now"(I'm not kidding). This experience vividly illustrates what is wrong with HA at this time and why Anet must do something about it.

Apok Omen · Jan 01, 2007, 08:00 AM // 08:00

^^ A great example that unranked groups do well.