Curse

tonyh · Mar 20, 2007, 09:35 PM // 21:35

Hello everyone, first some background information: I am mostly HA based, so I don't have an overwhelming amount of knowledge on GvG. My guild is a developing GvG guild (our rank is rather pathetic right now...) and I have been wondering about the protection elite for the prot monk.

As you may have guessed, my question is about Divert Hexes. From my experience with it in HA, i have been extremely frustrated with it every time and never considered it better than ZB (this could be because of my usage, however). So the first part of my question is why Divert Hexes is so useful and is considered much better than a ZB or shield of deflection (and overtaken blessed light by so far) on a 2-monk backline.

Second, how do you use Divert Hexes? Do you use it as an elite version of holy veil (that is, as hex removal) or some kind of heal that removes hexes as a side effect or both? If the first, is it important to only remove the more important hexes? If it is the second one, how do you maintain enough energy to use it?

Basically, any useful information about this elite that you, the responder, would like to give is appreciated, even if it doesn't specifically follow my questions. Also if you become horribly off topic, I don't mind since any knowledge is power (although it would be nice if you answered my questions first).

Ec]-[oMaN · Mar 20, 2007, 10:23 PM // 22:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by tonyh

As you may have guessed, my question is about Divert Hexes. From my experience with it in HA, i have been extremely frustrated with it every time and never considered it better than ZB (this could be because of my usage, however). So the first part of my question is why Divert Hexes is so useful and is considered much better than a ZB or shield of deflection (and overtaken blessed light by so far) on a 2-monk backline.

Second, how do you use Divert Hexes? Do you use it as an elite version of holy veil (that is, as hex removal) or some kind of heal that removes hexes as a side effect or both? If the first, is it important to only remove the more important hexes? If it is the second one, how do you maintain enough energy to use it?

#1
How many hex teams are in HA? That's why you would be frustrated with it.
It can be better than zb and any other monk Elite ingame; when you are using it for what it's intent is to accomplish(removing hex stacks). Divert has overtaken BlessedLight simply because there are more hex stacks in GVG, and coupled with glyph lesser is just well...

#2
Depends on the situation, if your divert monk is full on energy go spam away,remove those hex stacks, obviously when the Divert monk's energy becomes in danger he/she will use it more so on people with both a major hex stack+low health.

Lodurr · Mar 20, 2007, 11:38 PM // 23:38

As I understand it, Divert screws hex teams in two ways; it can obliterate hex stacks that are hiding powerful hexes like Migraine or melee hate, and it's a huge heal as well (around 200+ if you get three hexes), undoing all that degen pressure.

I'm also confused as to why it's so useful if every hex team brings at least one copy of Signet of Humility. The Divert monk can kite away from the battle but then his warriors will have melee hexes lasting on them. I'd prefer Purge Signet. Some guilds seem to be bringing both anyway.

Riotgear · Mar 21, 2007, 12:31 AM // 00:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lodurr

I'm also confused as to why it's so useful if every hex team brings at least one copy of Signet of Humility.

Because it owns hexes badly. It makes it much, much harder to run hexes in any build not capable of shutting down divert. Humility isn't that hard to interrupt either.

Phelann · Mar 21, 2007, 02:42 AM // 02:42

Divert hexes sucks becuase it is only useful against heavy hex teams, and any intelligent heavy hex team will do whatever they can to take it down. You would be far better off running expel or hex eater on some other char, or purge signets + holy veils.

Ronin Rangerin · Mar 21, 2007, 03:04 AM // 03:04

Hex Removal in guild wars is on the whole, pathetic. Hexes have the dual ability of providing a good offense, while simultaneously shutting down every character on your team.

Monks need a non-elite version of expel hexes, 5 energy, 2 removals, 5 recharge, or something similar.

Nortos · Mar 21, 2007, 05:36 AM // 05:36

you speak as if hexes are overpowered in gvg yet they dnt do so well in splits at start then at VoD well they are pretty crap at VoD unless you have dp. Hex builds are easily countered with good tactics.

*lemming* · Mar 21, 2007, 08:58 AM // 08:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nortos

you speak as if hexes are overpowered in gvg yet they dnt do so well in splits at start then at VoD well they are pretty crap at VoD unless you have dp. Hex builds are easily countered with good tactics.

Eurohex on Jade.

Counter that with tactics.

JR · Mar 21, 2007, 09:17 AM // 09:17

Divert Hexes is fairly good. I certainly don't consider it a must-take, in fact generally I wouldn't take it myself at all. It's narrow, and I don't like narrow skills. You face anyone without numerous hexes and you have a useless elite that doesn't even have the versatility of Holy Veil in countering the odd Diversion or Shame.

You don't beat hex builds with removal, you beat them by playing around their weaknesses. Mobility, lack of raw damage, the time it takes to get the hexes really going... Split, run them around. That said, if you are going to try and take everyone on 8v8 then you might consider Divert. Just take an interrupt somewhere for that Humility that every decent Hex Build will probably pack somewhere.

I am very much of the opinion that narrow skill counters are a roll of the dice way to play, and I don't like it. You can simply out play the majority of one dimensional builds like hexes with the right general tools and knowing how to approach the situation, and you are never left with a useless skill on your bar.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tehlemming

Eurohex on Jade.

Counter that with tactics.

Discussing the balance of hexes based on a broken map is foolish, and proves nothing.

Div · Mar 21, 2007, 09:31 AM // 09:31

Divert hexes is pretty much a gamble skill. Against non-hex teams, the skill will be completely useless, since it's generally not worth 10 energy to remove a diversion that can be easily removed with holy veil. On the other hand, it will be really nice if you encounter hex pressure teams and want to confront them 7v7 or 8v8. As long as your interrupter finds the sig of humility, the divert hexes is less prone to being shut down. It gives the ability to provide huge healing as well as hex removal (and condition removal too), but I'd still rather outplay the hex team than fighting it straight on. That said, it's fairly good if you haven't mastered the split mechanics yet, but its downside is that your elite is basically useless against non-hex teams.

dgb · Mar 21, 2007, 09:47 AM // 09:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR

Discussing the balance of hexes based on a broken map is foolish, and proves nothing.

Until Jade is improved, or removed from the meta, everything has to be balanced around it. It's ridiculous to say that hexes are balanced when they are brutal on a map like jade. That's not to say it's the hexes fault, it's not. However, dismissing criticism of the balance because hexes are not the broken thing, is well... stupid.

If Jade were to be removed tomorrow, I would agree, there is no need to look at hexes. Given track record, I expect Jade to be fixed some time in 2008. I'd prefer that hexes were dealt with, unless Jade is going to be fixed very soon.

JR · Mar 21, 2007, 10:26 AM // 10:26

Knowing that they are already considering various changes to Jade Isle, I am happy for them to solve that issue rather than screwing hexes that don't need to be screwed in the first place.

dgb · Mar 21, 2007, 02:39 PM // 14:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR

Knowing that they are already considering various changes to Jade Isle, I am happy for them to solve that issue rather than screwing hexes that don't need to be screwed in the first place.

I'm assuming you have more information than me here, in that all I've seen on the topic are some mindless assurances that they are aware of the problem.

If it is your understanding that a fix will arrive in the immediate future (a matter of weeks), then I would agree. If you're just going off one comment by a staff member on TGH, I'd argue that you're being hopeless naive given track record and I'd prefer to kill some skill that shouldn't be killed than have to see hexway on Jade for another year.

Patrograd · Mar 21, 2007, 02:59 PM // 14:59

You cant outclean a decent hex team anyway, no matter how much hex removal you have. I have seen teams running divert, expel, two veils and two purges, decent teams too, get taken down by this.

Generally, when hex teams lose, they lose to mobility, not to hex cleaning. if they are running, they arent casting. If they arent casting, you arent getting hexed and dont need hex removal. I guess if you bring enough disruption you can manage pretty well, and its always stronger to stop the hexes going on in the first place than to clean them after, but not many teams bring alot of disruption these days.

In short, I agree with JR. I dont think divert really helps that much, even against a hex team, if it knows what its doing. You cant clean two warriors of reckless haste covered with suffering fast enough. it will just go back on faster than you can clean it, you lose the energy war imo

Patrick Smit · Mar 21, 2007, 04:20 PM // 16:20

Well I'm not certain whether you can't clean it.

The reason is this, I was fooling around with a signet master; a Mesmer taking the following skills:
-Purge signet (loose almost always all energy)
-signet of disenchantment (loose all energy)
-Signet of humility
-leech signet
-keystone signet
-mantra of inscription (approximately -50% recharge rate)
-symbolic celerity (approximately 50% reduction in activation of signets)
-res signet (could put anything in here you like if you have need for other signets)

2 energy sets, high and low, to make sure you can cast mantra and enchantment

Well with this build you outpurge 2 independent purge signets, and the speed make it much harder to interupt. There is a good disenchant available, a nice interupt, and you can deactivate 2 elite skills if you are good (which I'm not saying I am)

About the purge, you can cast it each 11 seconds, and if you activate keystone signet (each 15 secs) you get an additional cast of it. Its an odd build, I agree to that immediately and whether its viable in GvG I don't know either. So per minute you can cast like 5+3.X signets unlike 2 copies that can cast only 5.5. The good thing is that you can block any elite you wish (say jagged bones) and maybe another as well. If keystone become humiliated than that is not so much of a problem, as the attributes of the opponent user will likely not be very high for inspiration so blocks only 12-15 secs max which equals the recharge. The purges don't take energy which is needed for other activities (the mesmer doesn't need it), when monks would hide they could still loose some energy if their pool was well filled.

I guess this mesmer will be (much?) less strong in normal play, where diversion, shame, gale, shatter enchantment and GolE rock the show, but the idea may be worth it. Or maybe not. Casting 8 times divert hexes still costs 2*5 (glyph) plus 4*10=50 energy , leave u not much else to do other things, maybe some 3 more divert hexes. Though the disadvantage is clear, it can remove max 3 hexes, purge signet is much stronger then that. The good thing of divert hexes is that it heals a lot in contrast to purge signet (2200 health per minute based on 1.33*60 energy plus 2 times GolE)

I guess the build is too gimmick or too weak (in offense?), otherwise it would have been used in GvG's

Back to hexways, as I observed quite some of these hexways, then there are two (popular) ways to counter it: Split, and they really can't so they usually all retreat to the base if they dont feel that they can push on yet. Or get to the jagged master using a short recharge interupt, and kill the minions in the process. Without the jagged they become much more controllable, but still it ain't that easy from what I have seen, as the spirits still provide them ample energy.

I guess i would bet on purges and split, and take an elite that will be suitable most of the time, not just in 10-20% of the games where hexes are maybe dominating.

Jim1 · Mar 21, 2007, 05:15 PM // 17:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR

rather than screwing hexes that don't need to be screwed in the first place.

Hmm. Clueless?

yesitsrob · Mar 21, 2007, 06:53 PM // 18:53

Regardless of map, tactics, counters, etc... none of that really changes how completely mental hex builds are right now.

The 2 Derv + Mirgaine + Repears is so goddamn imba. That shit has got people running 2 copies of purge, divert, healers boon HPs, expel - all in the same fricking build to deal with it. Which in fairness it does.

And those dervs kind of slaughter face at VoD.
_

As far as Divert hexes goes - yeah it will be humilitied, but humility screams interrupt me please. and if they humility yours DH, then they aren't using it on your LoD at least ^^

crucifix · Mar 21, 2007, 09:18 PM // 21:18

Hexes... bah... yeah its annoying shit and its just as well anets own fault for making hexes so hard to deal with. Splits work, yes, but hex teams can EASILY shut down splits by not playing retardedly. On the subject of sig of humilty, don't use divert hexes, its trash. run 2 veils and a purge somewhere. in the end that is way more effective than running a divert + veil. also, most hex team will bring 2 copies of humility for the exact reason that was stated previously: it will get int'd. meh, maybe sig of removal will see more play, then again, maybe not.

tonyh · Mar 21, 2007, 09:32 PM // 21:32

so... not as many ppl liked divert hexes as i thought...

since 2 veil + purge is apparently better, what is a better elite for the prot monk? (2 cases: 2 monk backline or 2 +1 ZB flagger)

Thomas.knbk · Mar 21, 2007, 09:47 PM // 21:47

I personally don't think Divert is more useful than a Shield of Deflection or a ZB. It definitely was when people ran Jaggedway a lot, (people even ran dual diverts then) but atm I think Healer's Boon/SoD is the strongest backline. They both have a holy veil, and you can fit a purge sig somewhere else. In america the meta appears to be RC+LoD with a second LoD or a ZB on a runner.