Curse

Zuranthium · Apr 14, 2007, 04:42 AM // 04:42

Quote:

Update - Friday April 13
Skill Updates

Elementalist

* Conjure Flame: decreased damage to 7..22, increased recharge time to 45 seconds.
* Conjure Frost: decreased damage to 7..22, increased recharge time to 45 seconds.
* Conjure Lightning: decreased damage to 7..22, increased recharge time to 45 seconds.

Decreasing the damage a few points...fine. They really were a bit overpowered. But hitting the recharge as well???

Stupid, stupid A-net.

~Z

The Ernada · Apr 14, 2007, 04:49 AM // 04:49

Oh boo hoo. It needed it because it was upping DPS too much and too easy to just put a conjure up and not have to do anything else to get that extra DPS. Basically another "no-skill" skill being toned down.

Zuranthium · Apr 14, 2007, 04:58 AM // 04:58

The damage needed a small hit, yes, but increasing the recharge is simply annoying. No need to throw in an additional limiting factor. Just seems wasteful.

~Z

icedwhitemocha · Apr 14, 2007, 05:03 AM // 05:03

I agree the recharge was a pointless change, but the damage was... yeah.

Patccmoi · Apr 14, 2007, 05:37 AM // 05:37

i feel the same way. Damage nerf, fine. But recharge nerf? It seems like their idea of 'let's buff the conjures' ended up in 'ok we nerfed them to worse than they were before' 1 week later...

LoyalSoldier · Apr 14, 2007, 05:42 AM // 05:42

The recharge doesn't effect much if you are not the target of enchantment removal, but since when do you not see that in GvG?

ss1986v2 · Apr 14, 2007, 06:09 AM // 06:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoyalSoldier

The recharge doesn't effect much if you are not the target of enchantment removal, but since when do you not see that in GvG?

actually, a lot of the top guilds arent running much, if any, enchantment removal as of late. lots of teams running heavy melee, and dropping the mesmer from their team. and even with the mesmer still in some teams, you usually wouldnt want to waste your shatter on a conjure when there are three warriors running it. better to actually use it to remove some protection/spike assist.

LoyalSoldier · Apr 14, 2007, 06:12 AM // 06:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by ss1986v2

actually, a lot of the top guilds arent running much, if any, enchantment removal as of late. lots of teams running heavy melee, and dropping the mesmer from their team. and even with the mesmer still in some teams, you usually wouldnt want to waste your shatter on a conjure when there are three warriors running it. better to actually use it to remove some protection/spike assist.

I am just saying that is a big if.

Wasteland Squidget · Apr 14, 2007, 06:15 AM // 06:15

These changes are fine, though not great. Conjures remain somewhat playable, though I'd be unlikely to run it in any meta where I can expect frequent strips.

The more important thing is that Arenanet is doing multiple small buffs as things come up, rather than saving everything for massive 'balance updates.' Even if I'm indifferent to the specific changes, it's encouraging that they're implementing changes as needed. This style of balance updates is a huge step forward for the game, and long overdue.

frojack · Apr 14, 2007, 07:00 AM // 07:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wasteland Squidget

These changes are fine, though not great. Conjures remain somewhat playable, though I'd be unlikely to run it in any meta where I can expect frequent strips.

The more important thing is that Arenanet is doing multiple small buffs as things come up, rather than saving everything for massive 'balance updates.' Even if I'm indifferent to the specific changes, it's encouraging that they're implementing changes as needed. This style of balance updates is a huge step forward for the game, and long overdue.

Agreed. Very much so.

The recharge was indeed a bit much though. In fact a duration nerf would be a better way to go if there was need for further weakening.
I'm in favor of low recharge on skills like this. They're often used by classes with little energy anyway. You'll just run out if your forced to re-cast too much (no energy for Protectors/Bull's? Oh crud...).
Why take the decision to blow energy on re-casting out of the players hands and leave it 'hard-coded' in the actual skill? Seems a bit mindless to me...

Patrick Smit · Apr 14, 2007, 07:15 AM // 07:15

comeon, with all the GolE powered aegis chains still flying around it will be nicely covered and not stripped easily. Damage decrease is ok recharge may be changed to whatever, as long as it is in line with the cost (or duration as proposed above). I however think that "no skill" skills should best be nerfed (for the good of the game) at the point that they are becoming too attractive.

Riotgear · Apr 14, 2007, 08:17 AM // 08:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by ss1986v2

you usually wouldnt want to waste your shatter on a conjure when there are three warriors running it. better to actually use it to remove some protection/spike assist.

Rending Touch, Discharge, Corrupt or Grenth would probably be better options for general removal if you need to pop an attunement or conjure. In exchange for the damage spike you don't need in such situations, you get a shorter recharge.

ss1986v2 · Apr 14, 2007, 08:44 AM // 08:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riotgear

Rending Touch, Discharge, Corrupt or Grenth would probably be better options for general removal if you need to pop an attunement or conjure. In exchange for the damage spike you don't need in such situations, you get a shorter recharge.

exactly my point earlier. ive been seeing less and less enchant removal (aside from mirror popping up) in the higher end of gvg. you still have shatter somewhat frequently, but no way is the opposing team going to waste it on popping conjures. yes you still run into the odd removals that you listed, but ive noticed that they pop up much less frequently.

if we still had the old inspiration line enchant removals flying around, or grenth dervs on every other team, then the recharge would be a bigger issue. besides, worst case scenario, your conjure is popped and you still are pumping out dmg, just not as much. it not like having your conjure stripped turns you into a useless slot.

ToxicWasted · Apr 14, 2007, 09:01 AM // 09:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wasteland Squidget

These changes are fine, though not great. Conjures remain somewhat playable, though I'd be unlikely to run it in any meta where I can expect frequent strips.

The more important thing is that Arenanet is doing multiple small buffs as things come up, rather than saving everything for massive 'balance updates.' Even if I'm indifferent to the specific changes, it's encouraging that they're implementing changes as needed. This style of balance updates is a huge step forward for the game, and long overdue.

Exactly,

This style of balancing updates will keep the meta shifting, unlike before, where it only got a huge turn after each update. This sure makes the game hell of a lot more interesting to me.

DutchSmurf · Apr 14, 2007, 10:26 AM // 10:26

This kind of updates is indeed exactly what the game needs. Not that this change really does much. It is 3 points less damage. Since enchantremoval is still weak, it won't get removed anyway.
If anything, the conjure-spells showed us that enchantremoval is lacking. Most of them have a recharge that long that they are just not worth it, seeing how many enchantments there are in the game. And the few that are decent are elites. Assault Enchantments, Shattering Assault, Shatter Storm and Corrupt Enchantment. I counted 3 more or less usefull enchantremovals that aren't elite. Lyssa's Balance, Discharge Enchantment and Rip Enchantment. All with their own weakness. I think that is a bigger problem then the Conjure spells are/were.

kvndoom · Apr 14, 2007, 10:45 AM // 10:45

As far as enchant removal goes, I'd like to see Gaze of Contempt buffed a little better. I think it was okay pre-nerf, and probably the best removal the game ever had (not counting Mr. Grenth, but that was just a silly concept anyway). But more importantly, I hope this move by Anet to roll out balances more frequently is a permanent change.

Thom Bangalter · Apr 14, 2007, 11:14 AM // 11:14

I'm generally not in favor of skills that give warriors more damage, especially when they have a really long duration and are hard to get rid of.

On Enchant removal: Enchant removal has always been rather weak, but it needs to be, or else monks are worthless because you just remove their prots mindless. Corrupt is fairly strong, but then you're running hexes, and then I die a little inside. The rending stuff on dervishes are pretty strong too, which means you get to run hexes AND dervishes! Buffing gaze of contempt is a really, really bad idea, as it basically encourages spike teams to use it more.

I'm not too concerned about skills like conjure being removed though, as it makes icy shackles really, REALLY fun to use.

Patrick Smit · Apr 14, 2007, 11:58 AM // 11:58

You could easily "buff" gaze of contempt yourself by running it on a MoR mesmer, using appropriate recharge weapons. Wether to spike or not is another question

Blame the Monks · Apr 14, 2007, 01:17 PM // 13:17

Within minutes of the nerf, iQ raped MH in about 6 minutes running 3 conjureway, a splinter rit, 2 ice, and 2 monk. Yes, it still works. Looks like heavy enchant removal will be one more thing you need to beat yet another mindless gimmick but can't afford to put on your bar and still counter all the other gimmicks.

bungusmaximus · Apr 14, 2007, 03:47 PM // 15:47

Hmm, too bad, I kinda enjoyed playing a conjure warr :P but necessary indeed. I saw this one coming the moment they buffed it tbh.