Curse

Badboy Thrasher · Mar 03, 2007, 03:29 PM // 15:29

stay 6v6 now, and DONT make any more changes. let the meta solve itself. if a build is overpowered it's soon to be countered if it wasnt for those nerfings which ruins everything for non pvpers which had nothing to do with it in the first place

Death_From_Above · Mar 03, 2007, 03:59 PM // 15:59

Just out of curiosity, u looked at the pole? Next point, why not make it 8v8 then an let the so called meta solve itself. If your claim they will so be counted wouldnt 8v8 be wiser being that there is a larger varity of skills you can use to counter because of more space?

Mental Leteci · Mar 03, 2007, 06:05 PM // 18:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Badboy Thrasher

stay 6v6 now, and DONT make any more changes. let the meta solve itself. if a build is overpowered it's soon to be countered if it wasnt for those nerfings which ruins everything for non pvpers which had nothing to do with it in the first place

Let's make something clear: just because build can be countered it doesn't mean it's not overpowered, ok?

tomcruisejr · Mar 03, 2007, 08:11 PM // 20:11

question #12

Which builds would you want to always go against?

a) overpowered but counterable builds
b) impossible to counter builds
c) builds that can be beaten using diversion and shatter enchantment alone
d) none of the above

Lorekeeper · Mar 03, 2007, 09:19 PM // 21:19

this is getting beyond tedious now. This issue has been debated for months and months. A 10 year old with a average grasp of english comprehension would be able to figure out the general opinion of the HA community.

How much longer does this poll need to be in action? Not that i grant alot of legitimacy to online polling like this, but i think its quite safe to say what the HA community prefers.

Can you give us an update on when you will be making the *final* changes to HA?

Or could you give a small glimpse of what you are considering?

I just want to know what is going on, 6vs6 HA is horrible. All i see are the same boring builds. That wouldnt be so bad if my ability to counter them wasnt so restricted because of the party size. Its one thing to accept that the meta is going to be dominated by a handful of fotms... but its another thing to make me accept that i cannot run a variety of builds to counter the meta.

ugh i cant even be bothered to explain what else is wrong anymore, so many people have done it, over and over and over again.

the thing is... i wouldnt be so impatient if i could enjoy gvg but the things that are ruining HA atm have made the inevitable transition to gvg... so BOTH modes are broken.

its just taking far too long

my patience is running dry

jai311 · Mar 03, 2007, 09:40 PM // 21:40

"USING COPY PASTE ON LoreKeeprer Post"

Death_From_Above · Mar 03, 2007, 09:46 PM // 21:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lorekeeper

this is getting beyond tedious now. This issue has been debated for months and months. A 10 year old with a average grasp of english comprehension would be able to figure out the general opinion of the HA community.

the thing is... i wouldnt be so impatient if i could enjoy gvg but the things that are ruining HA atm have made the inevitable transition to gvg... so BOTH modes are broken.

its just taking far too long

my patience is running dry

lol i feel your pain. like 8 months to sort yourself out is far to long. Im a child and not getting any younger. Going to have a levels ect so mite as well enjoy whiles im not rediculously pounded with work. 8 months of no decent tombs or 6, what ever, its still long and i would agree in saying many of the HA community are exausted now and their pacients is not even running dry but finished. No wonder so many people have either just *raged quit,* or ended up flaming Galie or other players or even mods. Its like when you strecth a string. Do it to much and itll snap and thats what im seein happeing alot now. What annoys me even more and makes it even worse is the fact as you said. A 10 year old could figure out what sensible quick option should be taken. Hence why iv been feeling like some players should be making the decisions for HA lol. And ye concering the gvg. GVG is where you need really a guild on or some friends like 4 who are actually good 2 guest on. Now no good HA. Means im not sure about your guilds but my guild and many friends guilds means, no body bothering to come on because if they do come on they just log off because nothing to do. Therefore gvg is not possible. Just outta curiosity, any1 seen any HA guilds recently or people advertising them?

coleslawdressin · Mar 04, 2007, 11:40 PM // 23:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Death_From_Above

A 10 year old could figure out what sensible quick option should be taken. Hence why iv been feeling like some players should be making the decisions for HA lol. And ye concering the gvg. GVG is where you need really a guild on or some friends like 4 who are actually good 2 guest on. Now no good HA. Means im not sure about your guilds but my guild and many friends guilds means, no body bothering to come on because if they do come on they just log off because nothing to do. Therefore gvg is not possible. Just outta curiosity, any1 seen any HA guilds recently or people advertising them?

Yup, I also don't know why it went back to 6v6 again or when it is going to be fixed. Zero feedback, fine job Gaile/ANET honchos. It seems like most of these people who still want 6v6 just started when 6v6 came out. They are usually from some random guild like XX DARK KNIGHTS OF ASCALON XX that you have never seen win halls and you can just tell that they are inexperienced and have no qualification to say what works and what doesn't.

It is true too about GVG. I pretty much only log in when I do PUG GVG and get a team on IRC. I always miss guest invites from friends though because I don't bother to log in. Tombs used to be nice to test builds and just get some practice in real PVP. (I don't consider expanded TA real PVP)

My patience is running out too. Unless I land a guild that is actually very competitive in GVG or the stupid 1 month rule for ATs doesn't ruin pugging, I doubt that I will buy anything else from ANET again ever. It isn't just tombs, it is how everything is handled. "We listen! but the necessary changes will come in 2-24 months with no notice as part of a mega patch that will introduce new problems." More frequent skill balance but best we know they won't nerf dicord/rit spike until after this extremely long tournament. Mistakes like kill-count could have been avoided if you just said what you are going to do before you do it. As soon as I heard about kill-count, I could tell what would end up bad about it.

Izzy said to us that the changes in beta testing and the open test weekends was to get better feedback from the larger community, but we need a 2 way street and it isn't happening. These polls have been going on way too long change it already.

baaba · Mar 05, 2007, 12:11 AM // 00:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by coleslawdressin

Yup, I also don't know why it went back to 6v6 again or when it is going to be fixed. Zero feedback, fine job Gaile/ANET honchos. It seems like most of these people who still want 6v6 just started when 6v6 came out. They are usually from some random guild like XX DARK KNIGHTS OF ASCALON XX that you have never seen win halls and you can just tell that they are inexperienced and have no qualification to say what works and what doesn't.

Sometimes comments like this judging people without fact is not the right way to go. Where do you get the fact that people who wants 6vs6 are inexperience?

Get the fact before giving useless comment.

I have to agree that skill balance is way too slow when they can update any skill within hour.

coleslawdressin · Mar 05, 2007, 01:28 AM // 01:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by baaba

Where do you get the fact that people who wants 6vs6 are inexperience?

Get the fact before giving useless comment.

The key words I used in my sentence are seems and most. I 100% believe it to be true but I didn't say it was a fact. The only closest way to prove it would be to have a poll where each vote counts as 1 multiplied by your amount of fame. Even then that assumes that fame=experience and there are all sorts of other problems too.

A lot of people who argue for 6v6 also complain about things that plague inexperienced players like losing to IWAY and spike, or they use all sorts of irrational arguments that don't actually support their cause. I don't care if you think they are great players or their arguments are great. These polls are still months old and still in favor of 8v8. Tombs is still 6v6......

Tristan_C · Mar 05, 2007, 02:13 AM // 02:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by pluiedecoups

I never understood the reason of a 6V6

Allow me to give you some history on this. Anet polled the Alphas and the public prior to the double-fame 6v6 weekend. The poll was much like this one; I'm sure you can still search the Guru one right here. People were largely in favor of a move to 6v6. Actually... Alpha weighed in overwhelmingly for 6v6. As it turns out, the Alpha testers are a mix of top GVGers and PVEers--HAers were not represented to any measurable extent-- and the main reason cited for the likely superiority of 6v6 was ease of group formation. If it was easier to form groups, more people would gain access and this would lead to higher concurrency rates in the long run.

So much for the cited reasons, though- let's get to the red meat. Like I said, Alpha = GVG + PVE. The GVGers wanted an arena they could enter when not fully-formed for GVG matches. If a guild comes up two players short one night, 6v6 HA can step in and save the evening. PVEers also stood to benefit from easier group formation, since PVE guilds are not quite as rigid on scheduling as PVP guilds. To the cream of Guild Wars PVEers, 6v6 harbored the promise of easier entry into PuGs and much better chances of assembling a guild group. Therefore, these two groups weighed in favoring 6v6 very strongly for reasons not directly relating to the betterment of Heroes' Ascent.

I have no idea how HAers really stacked on the 6v6/8v8 issue before HA went to 6v6. I actually doubt they had any coherent feelings beyond cautious optimism. HAers are primarily concerned about the quality of Heroes' Ascent, which is kind of impossible to gauge without some experience. We had no way of knowing whether 6v6 battles would be more or less fun, or challenging, or broken, without trying. Ease of group formation was an obvious advantage of 6v6 which non-HAers jumped on and trumpeted in the forums. Unfortunately the HA community is not a particularly large segment of the whole Guild Wars community. And it's an insignificant portion of Alpha. The HA community got completely outvoted in deciding the fate of its own format.

gfg imo

baaba · Mar 05, 2007, 05:46 AM // 05:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by coleslawdressin

The key words I used in my sentence are seems and most. I 100% believe it to be true but I didn't say it was a fact. The only closest way to prove it would be to have a poll where each vote counts as 1 multiplied by your amount of fame. Even then that assumes that fame=experience and there are all sorts of other problems too.

A lot of people who argue for 6v6 also complain about things that plague inexperienced players like losing to IWAY and spike, or they use all sorts of irrational arguments that don't actually support their cause. I don't care if you think they are great players or their arguments are great. These polls are still months old and still in favor of 8v8. Tombs is still 6v6......

I don't care if you believe in what's true or not. You are making statements without any support is stupid. Keep using your "seems" and "most" won't help your argument anymore supportive.

So I can say a lot of people argue for 8 vs 8 also complain about not able to hold hall as much and not able to spike as often?

It doesn't make any sense by saying whoever support which has more experiences.

I don't support either 6 vs 6 or 8 vs 8 because what really needs to be change are skill balance and the damn format of HA at the moment.

coleslawdressin · Mar 05, 2007, 06:25 AM // 06:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by baaba

Keep using your "seems" and "most" won't help your argument anymore supportive.

So I can say a lot of people argue for 8 vs 8 also complain about not able to hold hall as much and not able to spike as often?

I don't need to argue and support anything... It is my OPINION, which you haven't done anything to change. I think that people who support 6v6 are generaly worse and less experienced at GW than those who want 8v8. In fact sometimes they sound like they have barely ever played it and have like 30 fame tops. Agree or disagree, I don't give a crap. Almost every player that I know prefers 8v8 and most refuse to even play 6v6. Almost every person posting here on guru whose name I recognize supports 8v8. Also, I never said anything about not being able to hold as much or spike. I know some 8v8 supporters want things to go back to the old way of simple altars and I don't agree with them. I see that as just about equally stupid as peoples reasoning who want 6v6.

baaba · Mar 05, 2007, 06:49 AM // 06:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by coleslawdressin

I don't need to argue and support anything... It is my OPINION, which you haven't done anything to change. I think that people who support 6v6 are generaly worse and less experienced at GW than those who want 8v8. In fact sometimes they sound like they have barely ever played it and have like 30 fame tops. Agree or disagree, I don't give a crap. Almost every player that I know prefers 8v8 and most refuse to even play 6v6. Almost every person posting here on guru whose name I recognize supports 8v8. Also, I never said anything about not being able to hold as much or spike. I know some 8v8 supporters want things to go back to the old way of simple altars and I don't agree with them. I see that as just about equally stupid as peoples reasoning who want 6v6.

Since you already stated you don't want to support anything from what you are saying. I am not even going to bother argue with you. It is your own personal opinion as to who is less experienced.

Case Closed.

coleslawdressin · Mar 05, 2007, 07:19 AM // 07:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by baaba

Since you already stated you don't want to support anything from what you are saying. I am not even going to bother argue with you. It is your own personal opinion as to who is less experienced.

Case Closed.

I have no problem finding some examples of what I am talking about. I have never seen an intelligent argument for 6v6 that I remember though.

What exactly was your point of responding to me, cause I missed that. You think that the votes coming from people who want 6v6 are from equally or more skilled players? Let's see your examples. Yeah I thought so. Case closed indeed.

baaba · Mar 05, 2007, 10:05 AM // 10:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by coleslawdressin

I have no problem finding some examples of what I am talking about. I have never seen an intelligent argument for 6v6 that I remember though.

What exactly was your point of responding to me, cause I missed that. You think that the votes coming from people who want 6v6 are from equally or more skilled players? Let's see your examples. Yeah I thought so. Case closed indeed.

Okay. Where can you find anywhere that I said people who want 6 vs 6 are more skillful?

You are the ONLY one that keeps attacking and pointing out your thought that certain group of players are inexperiences and don't know what they are doing.

Are you lacking some kind of IQ or you cannot read what people typed? Maybe both?

To point out AGAIN, I don't care which is the outcome of the format, either 6 vs 6 or 8 vs 8, because it doesn't affect me at all.

Yes. Case Closed for you.

coleslawdressin · Mar 05, 2007, 03:02 PM // 15:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazyman209

I hate 8v8 it is hard enough to get a good group. Every time my team played 8v8 we had to take pugs or noobs that killed our team. I think that the people who dont like 6v6 are thoes that cant play multiple rolls. ie. a spiker and healer.

Yeah, I have no reason to think these people voting for 6v6 are mainly the touch rangers and fire eles with traps running around UW. Sorry that my IQ is inferior to yours but I still don't see the point in any of your responses. I have no right to say that I think most people voting for 6v6 are scrubs who barely play tombs? If devs actually played tombs or listened to those who actually played it would be back to 8v8 in a second. Don't worry, I know what matters to them and I don't expect much.

Death_From_Above · Mar 05, 2007, 04:32 PM // 16:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by baaba

Sometimes comments like this judging people without fact is not the right way to go. Where do you get the fact that people who wants 6vs6 are inexperience?

Get the fact before giving useless comment.

Stop asking for stupid facts, i dont see anet producing any when their claiming things like oh people like 6v6 more than 8v8. Id have to agree with coleslawdressin point. The people supporitng 6v6 in general, so that means the majority. Either started playing HA when 6v6 came out or just suck at HA. And its true looking at the posts here. It dosent nessercrily mean they all are but the majority and its just common sence, you dont need proof. Its like saying America is a super power. Now i could get all your proof but that would just be long. But its common sence they are. Not all thing you need to get proof for. Also coleslawdressin you mentioned later that you think its just as stupid to change halls back to old 8v8 with old mechanics ect. Explain to me why please, kill count sucks many people agree with this. 8v8 or 6v6 kill count sucks and ruins game. Now id prefer to play old elite 8v8 tombs rather than new 8v8 tombs with kill count map whiles they either try fix the kill count (which i hope they dont because it is a lost cause) or make some new mechanic idea. Another thing id like to mention on a post posted here, a rather good one i must say summing up basically this whole subject. So the question i have asked now for lets see 6months has finaly been answered. Was their a pole on the forms for 6v6. Now lets review this. Was the pole done for 6v6 double fame weekend.

If so just plain stupid, and anet talk about wanting to test one variable at a time. Nonsence. Second point, how many HAers used the forms at the time or where aware of the vote. I know i and no one i am aware of cept for a few probly but non that iv asked out of many know. Which just to remind you is a friend list full of 90 percent pro pvpers. So question, who actually was left to vote. As i said before many HAers dont use forms, they find no need to. Ill quote something a very experianced friend of mine said and just to let you know he dosent use forms too. "people are voting with two left feet." Many HAers (the good ones) where infact board with the 6v6 weekend near the end of it. Yes it was ok for something tempory but after day 2 (board). Even with double fame some didnt bother come on. Im an example, i only came to the forms after like 2 months od messed up HA because i heard this is where anets desisions where being influenced. Many HAers didnt even do this, they just uninstalled gw and swicthed comp off when these lame changes came into place.

So my question again, who was actually voting in this pole for something which many of the HA communtiy where not aware of or took part in. For a big company, i believe at the start of the pole for 6v6 they had swicthed off their brain. Laping up all the thank yous ect for the 6v6 DOUBLE FAME. They let their ego get in the way and therefore in doing so couldnt forsee future problems. Obviously as we have all seen, they havent been able to recover when that ego was popped.

baaba · Mar 05, 2007, 08:37 PM // 20:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Death_From_Above

For a big company, i believe at the start of the pole for 6v6 they had swicthed off their brain. Laping up all the thank yous ect for the 6v6 DOUBLE FAME. They let their ego get in the way and therefore in doing so couldnt forsee future problems. Obviously as we have all seen, they havent been able to recover when that ego was popped.

To be honest, I just read the last few sentences. You got to learn how to use spaces in between sentences for people to read your posts, especially that long.

Anyways, it is useless to debate anymore. You know why? It's because Chapter 4 is the last Chapter of Guild Wars which comes out on around July and then it will slowly die out just like Diablo I&II. (If you've played Diablo before, you would know how it feels.)

So all the hard works (fames, titles, golds, weapons) are going to be useless very soon. gg.

Death_From_Above · Mar 05, 2007, 08:47 PM // 20:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by baaba

Anyways, it is useless to debate anymore. You know why? It's because Chapter 4 is the last Chapter of Guild Wars which comes out on around July and then it will slowly die out just like Diablo I&II. (If you've played Diablo before, you would know how it feels.)

So all the hard works (fames, titles, golds, weapons) are going to be useless very soon. gg.

I heard something about them delaying it till September or August because they couldnt get it done in time. Correct me if im wrong, but i recal reading a post by Galie to some people complaining about it, saying anet never gave an official date for when it was comming out so you cant really complain. And just out of curiosity, in light of that, why is it you think itll slowly die out. I believe this is true if halls remains as it is but i guess well have to see. I havent played Diablo but iv played runescape :P so ye i got some idea of that phase but not so sure how itll happen in gw