Curse

elektra_lucia · Feb 22, 2007, 03:59 PM // 15:59

People are taking this game too personal. You have to think of what is, and not what ''can'' be. I'll explain what I mean.

Quote:

A little thought, good teamwork and patience and they can easily be rolled in a single 8 player build

That's a little thought to me, and a bit of team work and yes spike teams arn't hard to counter BUT in general teams DON'T have even ''little'' thought or a bit of teamwork. IWAY for most half decent people was -never- hard to counter but that's not the point. Iway was ALWAYS boring to counter, and too much of it.

It is not that the build was lame, it's that PEOPLE are lame. People can not think for themselves, and it's MUCH easier to make (if you're low rank/ability) a well known build that takes little skill than to risk using a build that is better to win with, but also easier to lose with.

With that in mind HA is ruined for the new comer. You don't have to make HA rubbish to suit the new comer either. HA should FORCE a player to think to be able to win, instead of all these stupid builds and stupid nonsense.

These kill counts are absoutely ridiculous. Everytime I've faced leeloofs team now, someone from the other team (not his or I) have PM'd me saying ''he doesn't need more fame let's gank him''. At first, I just wanted to win, so aslong as I wasn't the one ganked it was alright (lol) but the more I think about it, the game actually supporting ganking for those reasons is ridiculous.

I can understand ganking because they have a ghostly on altar, but ganking because they worked hard for fame? It's stupid.

So kill counts are stupid.

The event was alright, but what I don't get. The skills have been changed to suit 6vs6, the maps have been changed to suit 6vs6, and then you go change it back to 8vs8 to test?

Another thing which is stupid with 8vs8 and ''ganking''. If you face a team with 6 damage dealers, 2 monks instead of 5 and 3. It makes sense to attack them first because you'd expect them to be giving out more damage. Well, do that and you get 20 people from their alliance spamming you, raging at you for ''ganking''.

so I still stand by what I voted on (8vs8) but the maps need to be changed. Killcount needs to be changed or something (It'd be cool one team vs another, but not three teams).

Maybe have a limit to the ammount of spirits which can be up (just a thought, maybe not a good idea).

I still think having a limit to the ammount of same professions in a group. Might be worth testing.

FoxBat · Feb 22, 2007, 04:11 PM // 16:11

Here's something I don't get in the 8v8 arguments:

I never saw a balanced team in the recent HoH, nor fought against any.
I never saw an IWAY team in the recent HoH, nor fought against any.

People think they can run these old builds just because it's 8v8, but they don't seem to work very well under the current win conditions and skill balance.

Ironically I *have* started seeing some semi-balanced things in 6v6, though the usual 2 wars are replaced by SP/BoA.

Not that this makes 6v6 better but... I fail to see how 8v8 garuntees balanced has a chance over 6v6. You don't see balanced teams picking the anti-split maps in GvG, and that's because balanced isn't the best choice for pure 7v7/8v8, compared to highly synergzied gimmicks like Discordway or Rit Spikers.

Death_From_Above · Feb 22, 2007, 04:58 PM // 16:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by CassiusDrehyg

Okay Gaile, I'm going to be honest with you here:

If 6v6 stays, I'm uninstalling Guild Wars from my computer. I vote for eight vs eight, and I hope others do the same.

Well i think this topic has been burried, burried some more, and some more and some more. But yet not seeing much improvement.

Cassius i 100 percent agree with you but i want to add something to what you said. If HA stays 6v6 or it stays 8v8 but with kill count. Then like you i am going to uninstal guildwars from my computer. I can think of 9 people on my friend list (which is full) off the top of my head right now who have agreed to do the same because its just lame. Im not going to go on about why 8v8 should stay and why it should be reverted back to its original state. i think iv said that enough an now yes its getting a bit repetative. But anyways one last thing, those of you who are saying stuff like why not have 7v7 and saying why should we keep 8v8 ect or why not 6v6. Just please go read some previous posts. There are many out there on other threads which explain clearly. I think after reading it ull understand where HAers comming from

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoxBat

Here's something I don't get in the 8v8 arguments:

I never saw a balanced team in the recent HoH, nor fought against any.
I never saw an IWAY team in the recent HoH, nor fought against any.

People think they can run these old builds just because it's 8v8, but they don't seem to work very well under the current win conditions and skill balance.

Ironically I *have* started seeing some semi-balanced things in 6v6, though the usual 2 wars are replaced by SP/BoA.

Not that this makes 6v6 better but... I fail to see how 8v8 garuntees balanced has a chance over 6v6. You don't see balanced teams picking the anti-split maps in GvG, and that's because balanced isn't the best choice for pure 7v7/8v8, compared to highly synergzied gimmicks like Discordway or Rit Spikers.

Well i can give you a quick replie for that. 8v8 is better when talking about balanced builds. The reason your not seeing any at the moment is because not of the player amount, but rather the kill count and other game mechanics. It basically kills all balanced builds hex stack pressure builds and so on. Believe me iv tried it im a balanced guy mainly. Thats why many HAers asking for removal of kill count because it basically means we cannot run any balanced builds an stuff and spike roams free. Where not saying HA is fixed at the moment with 8v8 but where highlighting that when they get rid of the lame kill count and other mechanics and replace the old ones then it will be. Answer your question? Because i for one agree that 8v8 with kill count mechanic sucks as much as 6v6. But im looking to the future when they will hopefuly change this.

Blame the Monks · Feb 22, 2007, 05:59 PM // 17:59

Maybe if you hold your breath and stamp your feet as you threaten to rage quit Gaile would be more impressed.

elektra_lucia · Feb 22, 2007, 06:23 PM // 18:23

Quote:

I never saw a balanced team in the recent HoH, nor fought against any.
I never saw an IWAY team in the recent HoH, nor fought against any.

Firstly, if you haven't seen a balanced build then you're blind. Secondly, me mentioning IWAY was more of an example. RT spike (with the 8vs8) was the new IWAY. I'm not going to bother to re-explain my point.

vapor311 · Feb 22, 2007, 06:27 PM // 18:27

One thing that I didn't notice in the poll was the option for 10v10 or 12v12. Only then can truly balanced builds be run. Just think, an additional 2 or 4 character slots would allow everyone to fit in enough counters for the counters that counter my counters.

Fergalicious92 · Feb 22, 2007, 06:36 PM // 18:36

I STONGLY prefer 6v6 in HA. My reasoning is that it takes 2 less people to find and make a pug... Yes i know you are thinking "stupid nub just find 2 more people", but it is not that easy. When you think about it there are ALOT of people making pug groups in HA. With an extra 2 people a group, that adds up because those 2 extra people could be playing something else. Say we have 100 pugs forming in all the ID districts (not counting the american or european pugs) that is 200+ people that could have joined other groups. I stood in HA along with my guild leader looking for a group to do HA with and it took over 3 hours to find one, but even then they went one run and disbanded because we got ROLLED!!!!! by Rit spike (big surprise there). Thats my next issue. All you see in HA with the 8v8 HA is Rit spike, rit spike, bspike, b spike, rit spike. Rit spike is way over powered doing 1400+ dmg with a single spike, and has a 1/4 of a second cast for a follow up!! My infuses didn't mean squat because even when i infused, it spiked right through it, and then spiked me down before i even got the chance to heal all the way up. Next is the killcount changes etc etc (i know you've all heard this before, but now its my turn to rant) Kill count sucks because it forces alot of groups to play spikes like rit spike and b spike. Its ridiculous... What ever happened to the good ol' hex pressure or condition pressure groups. They fizzled out because apparently you have to do so much dmg within a period of time or you dont get credit for the kill. What, you do the work of burning down the other teams monks with pressure and then the SPIKE (yes spike) comes in and takes credit? I strongly disagree with that. Oh, and about the capture points in HA. Its purely AB. If i wanted to go run around and capture points i would ALLIANCE BATTLE!! leave AB in AB and leave HA alone with it. I appreciate that you attempted to make HA alot better with changes, but this is definately not the way of doing it. Maybe you could introduce different maps (all the maps still hold that old prophecies look), or you could make another area for the "Leet" pvpers to play in. Once you get Rank w/e, you could make it so you can now go to the elite pvp area. I know that HA is supposed to be the most intense pvp area, but something has to give. All the ranked players keep getting higher and higher, and the newer HA teams hardly get any Fame because they cant get a decent group going. Then they get steam rolled by the high rank players, making them hate HA. Soon HA will fizzle out because the influx of new players into that area will die down, and the veterans like I and you will get bored of it and stop playing it. Those are just suggestions, not saying its the best way to fix it, i'm sure there are plently of other ways to do this.
~Matt

Mental Leteci · Feb 22, 2007, 06:36 PM // 18:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by elektra_lucia

These kill counts are absoutely ridiculous. Everytime I've faced leeloofs team now, someone from the other team (not his or I) have PM'd me saying ''he doesn't need more fame let's gank him''. At first, I just wanted to win, so aslong as I wasn't the one ganked it was alright (lol) but the more I think about it, the game actually supporting ganking for those reasons is ridiculous.

Is that the reason you ganked us in Courtyard? Cause Leeloof was in my team? Even with ganking we managed to win cause you wanted to win so badly that you attacked the team who ganked with you too early and that was a mistake. Well, at least you agree that killcount is stupid so nvm.

Master Ketsu · Feb 22, 2007, 07:05 PM // 19:05

The best way to get this poll to show the true results of what the majority of the GW community prefers, would be an in game poll. Announce the poll will be held in game and have an event ( that will last one week ) where players can go to the temple of balthazar and cast their vote .

Basically players will be able to vote by talking to an NPC next to the championship trophy. You could even run this event at the same time the upcoming minigame event.

On top of this, in order to ensure that your getting votes from the right people, the NPC should require that voters be at least RANK 1. Anyone can get rank 1 in a week, and by requiring players to be rank 1 you will ensure that the players voting will at least know what they are voting for ( This measure would mainly be to make sure no PVE'ers who aren't familiar with HA vote on something they have no understanding of, since their votes would be no better then random )

Obviously, only 1 vote per account would be allowed.

pluiedecoups · Feb 22, 2007, 07:35 PM // 19:35

I never understood the reason of a 6V6
I'd prefer the old HoH with map with 6 team at the same time ( try to spike when you have 40 player ganking you )
fame was hard to have now you can be R9 in 2 week
less run because of time but better
more balanced team
other problem is GW TV
now everyone play the same builds
GW a game where a million of build can be done and when only 3 are play

Hero's ascent is a 8vs 8 fight
if a 6vs6 is really need create another arena
I think 8vs8 is good for those who don't have a guild to make gvg and want to participate to big fight and not only a fame farming zone
6vs6 + GW TV = no surprise

Dragonious · Feb 22, 2007, 07:58 PM // 19:58

I hear all of the cool kids run a choking gas ranger if they want to slow down or stop a caster based spike. O_o And are still able to pull off a successful spike with 4 people for kill count maps. Maybe 2 warriors and 2 eles (fire and air or earth) or 1 warrior, 1 mesmer, and 2 eles which is perhaps a better option. It is still very powerful if you run balance with a spike incorporated. Those are the teams that win IMO.

tomcruisejr · Feb 22, 2007, 08:02 PM // 20:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by elektra_lucia

IWAY for most half decent people was -never- hard to counter but that's not the point. Iway was ALWAYS boring to counter, and too much of it.

i've heard that excuse lots of times now and it's still pathetic up to now.

how will you counter a build that wiped your team for less than 5 minutes? come on now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by elektra_lucia

It is not that the build was lame, it's that PEOPLE are lame. People can not think for themselves, and it's MUCH easier to make (if you're low rank/ability) a well known build that takes little skill than to risk using a build that is better to win with, but also easier to lose with.

i agree but the lame people are not the ones who run the lame builds but it is the people who lose to this supposedly lame builds. those who run the lame builds are just having fun and wanting to win and on the other side of the spectrum, you got this losers who think that people who beat them and are not using the similar accepted builds are unskilled and must be stripped off their overpowered builds. maybe these losers cannot accept the fact that they are scrubs and just feel stupid about themselves coz they cannot effectively counter things and they end up in forums, whining, complaining about things being overpowered.

Nurse With Wound · Feb 22, 2007, 08:14 PM // 20:14

Guys please... dont hijack this to another iway thread, I've already created a new one specially for those kinds of needs.

Stick to the topic!

Alleji · Feb 22, 2007, 09:30 PM // 21:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoxBat

Ironically I *have* started seeing some semi-balanced things in 6v6, though the usual 2 wars are replaced by SP/BoA.

How is that balanced? "Balanced" is a build that relies on its flexibility to deal with different situations. I don't see how the usual 2 sin/2 ele/2 monk build is balanced... it has 3 different classes (omg so does IWAY: warrior, ranger and necro) and its game plan is to overload on aoe nukes and then spike out targets with sins. Really flexible there.

samcobra · Feb 22, 2007, 11:13 PM // 23:13

take out kill count. Completely. Altars were bad, but there's no reason to make them worse with kill count. Just have 3-way annihilation. Solves all the problems and allows for all different types of builds. Chaos is the essence of life.

**6 team burial mounds ftw**

Alleji · Feb 23, 2007, 12:00 AM // 00:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by samcobra

**6 team burial mounds ftw**

I get 1v1 courtyards about 40% of the time and had 1v1 halls (again) 2 nights ago. Do you honestly think we have enough teams playing for a 6-way map at this point?

Oh and nerf UW --> courtyard skip, anet. It's lame. Especially if you get a 4-minute timer into a 6-minute NOP after winning courtyard. Q_Q

Randomway Ftw · Feb 23, 2007, 12:00 AM // 00:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by samcobra

take out kill count. Completely. Altars were bad, but there's no reason to make them worse with kill count. Just have 3-way annihilation. Solves all the problems and allows for all different types of builds. Chaos is the essence of life.

**6 team burial mounds ftw**

Why do people always bitch about altars but fail to give real reasons why, is it that hard to accept the some people actualy enjoyed that type of map, and thought that it was unnecessary to remove it?

Mental Leteci · Feb 23, 2007, 12:07 AM // 00:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alleji

I get 1v1 courtyards about 40% of the time and had 1v1 halls (again) 2 nights ago. Do you honestly think we have enough teams playing for a 6-way map at this point?

Oh and nerf UW --> courtyard skip, anet. It's lame. Especially if you get a 4-minute timer into a 6-minute NOP after winning courtyard. Q_Q

You should play around 8 p.m. GMT+1 'till 11 p.m. and then you'd maybe have a challenge without skips.

Thom Bangalter · Feb 23, 2007, 12:25 AM // 00:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Randomway Ftw

Why do people always bitch about altars but fail to give real reasons why, is it that hard to accept the some people actualy enjoyed that type of map, and thought that it was unnecessary to remove it?

Altars were bad because they encouraged poor play, such as dedicating a character to PD or Seeking/Choking bars.

Randomway Ftw · Feb 23, 2007, 12:54 AM // 00:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thom Bangalter

Altars were bad because they encouraged poor play, such as dedicating a character to PD or Seeking/Choking bars.

That is poor play because????? By that logic I could say using a flag runner in GvG is poor play.