Curse

Gaile Gray · Feb 20, 2007, 08:09 PM // 20:09

As you know, ArenaNet has been working on changes to Heroes' Ascent. The objective is to increase the fun factor and to refresh the challenges within the HA experience. With that objective in mind, the designers have made changes over the last months, including two recent "Testing Weekends." Those weekends allowed players to try out various map changes, gameplay options, and party size choices.

The party size for HA was reverted to 6v6 yesterday. That does not mean that 6v6 is the final decision as far as party size; it simply means that it's time to move to the next stage of this process: The Player Poll. We invite players who take part in Heroes' Ascent battles to vote in this new poll, and to share your opinions about other aspects of HA as well.

The question is: What party size do you prefer for Heroes' Ascent. Your options are:

I strongly prefer 6v6
I somewhat prefer 6v6
I am neutral and see advantages to both
I somewhat prefer 8v8
I strongly prefer 8v8

Polls like this help us a lot. We also invite you to add your comments to this thread so that we can see the reasoning behind your opinions.

Thank you for your participation in the poll, and for sharing your thoughts.

xyke · Feb 20, 2007, 08:15 PM // 20:15

Please bring back 8v8, I don't enjoy HA with 6 people at all.

Zicmu · Feb 20, 2007, 08:19 PM // 20:19

i want 8v8 because i think people will let lower ranks in also

axe · Feb 20, 2007, 08:26 PM // 20:26

I love Heroes Ascent, its my favorite area of the game to spend time in. I had fun in 6v6 but I had much more fun in 8v8. My only concern is the killcount map mechanic. I didnt really enjoy this map mechanic in either 6v6 or 8v8.

kidkid · Feb 20, 2007, 08:28 PM // 20:28

With the new HA system (kill counts, alter cap) and the skills setting we got right now. I strongly prefer 6 v 6.

KelemvorOAK · Feb 20, 2007, 08:30 PM // 20:30

I see the advantages to both, but either way, until kill count goes away or becomes part of a rotating objective on Broken Tower and Courtyard, HA won't be much fun. The kill count objectives just destroy any kind of pressure build (melee, hex, or condition)... which leaves our old friend, the spike builds.

Bastian · Feb 20, 2007, 08:34 PM // 20:34

I probably echo what a lot of players feel. Keep 8v8 but change the mechanics (especially the kill counts) to allow more balanced teams to enjoy HA as well. IMO, the halls rotation now is pretty good but broken tower and courtyard are not very enjoyable.

Divineshadows · Feb 20, 2007, 08:36 PM // 20:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

We invite players who take part in Heroes' Ascent battles to vote in this new poll, and to share your opinions about other aspects of HA as well.

I voted for somewhat prefer 8v8. If I was going to vote strictly off of the current skill balance which contains highly imbalanced spiking skills such as lamentation and discord (and gaze from beyond and spirit burn to a lesser degree), then I would have voted for somewhat prefer 6v6. However, I'm an idealist at heart and hope that the game will someday be properly balanced. Given an ideal skill balance, 8v8 offers for more interesting splits on murder ball, caputre points, and relic runs. For murder ball and capture points, you can even have three split squads under certain circumstances, while three split squads are basically impossible to achieve with only a 6 man team due to build inflexibility. Speaking of which, given that most HA players seem to dispise kill counts I think that broken tower would be a great map for murder ball and courtyard would be a great map for capture points.

Lord Mendes · Feb 20, 2007, 08:38 PM // 20:38

Well Gaile it all depends, if you want to keep (crappy) Kill Counts and (imbalanced) ritualist skills the way they are, then 6v6 would seem like a better option.
If you want to change broken tower and courtyard to something fun and reasonable (NOT kill count), keep HoH objective random, and keep the skills balanced, then 8v8 is the way to go.

All I can say is that the kill count issue seems like a more pressing issue than the team size, because as you should know from your "testing", kill counts + imbalanced skills = crappy HA.

For me, the ideal system would be an 8 man HA with broken tower and courtyard as altar maps, HoH with a random objective, and balanced skills.

masta_yoda · Feb 20, 2007, 08:54 PM // 20:54

i voted for strongly 8v8 even though i do think 6v6 is a more balanced type play. i believe a-net will do something to make 8v8 better though.
Imo its the kill count which is encouraging more spike esp rit spike,death spike because they can pump out spikes so quick and pick on the weaker team if 3 way, giving balanced builds almost no chance.
Personally i dont have anything against spike its just kill count is favouring a particular type of game play which is the main issue here.

i recomend a-net try a test weekend without kill count and see if its better or anything.

i probably would have voted for 6v6 but im giving 8v8 the benefit of the doubt because i was a huge 8v8 oldschool fan,

Randomway Ftw · Feb 20, 2007, 08:58 PM // 20:58

reintroduction of 8v8 should be a no brainer, what we should be discussing now is why anet saw the need to destroy HA with objectives changes.

This is the best map/objective setup imo

UW-Annihalation
Burial-Annihalation
Broken-3 Way Altar Holding
Scarred-1v1 Annihalation or 4 way with fame after team defeated, no lever, lever encourages ganking
Unholy- Relic Run
Dark-Annihalation
Courtyard-3 Way Altar
Halls- Original 5 team 10 mins, or 3 team 4 mins altar

No 3 second claim resource, if you can't cap you don't deserve to be in halls anyways.

Patccmoi · Feb 20, 2007, 09:01 PM // 21:01

I voted for somewhat prefer 8v8. I think that 8v8 has more potential mostly and that it's better to work towards what has the most potential.

I think that the kill-count would be ok only as part of HoH rotation but not as something to get on the way there in a 3-way cause it favors spikes too much. In the same way, i wouldn't like to see Broken and Courtyard revert to holding cause this just favors other type of builds more. If you want a random HoH, then you should have 'random' maps on the way there! My suggestion for map rotation, to experience most map types, would be :

Broken Tower -> Capture points. Seems like a good map size for it and the design could work well. And capture points encourages versatile build that can split, discouraging spikes from the start.

Scarred Earth -> Bring back in the rotation as a 1v1 kill count on both sides of 4-5 min. Most kill on each side after 4-5 min win, and you restart both winning teams in center (both kill counts are reset to 0) and you got another 4-5 min. I'd also put an altar of sort (hell, you can just draw a circle of power on the ground, that's about as hard as adding a lever!) in the middle of the map to encourage teams to fight there and not wait for the other team in their side. Holding altar could possibly give a point every minute on top of giving 10% damage increase.

Courtyard -> Altar holding with same rules as current HoH on (points every 30s, etc.)

The 2 relic runs will have to do for Murder Ball.

So full HA map rotation suggestion :

1) Underworld ->RED ENGINE GODeath Match
2) Burial Mounds -> Death Match with Priests
3) Broken Tower -> 3 ways Capture Points
4) Scarred Earth -> 1v1 kill counts x 2, lasts 3-5 min each, counter resets at 0 after first fight
5) Unholy Temples -> Relic run
6) Dark Chambers -> Death Match with Priests
7) Courtyard ->RED ENGINE GO3 ways Holding Altar with new HoH rules (point every 30s)
8) Sacred Temples -> Relic run
9) The Vault -> allow to play dodgeball 4v4 while you wait? =p
10) HoH -> random objective between Murderball, kill count, holding and capture points.

I think that with this rotation, all map types are given similar importance. No build type would be truly encouraged imo. Capture points allows mostly build versatility and movement and any kind of team setup can go through as long as you're somewhat balanced and can split, etc. Scarred Earth wouuld be kill count, but in 1v1 so that it doesn't favor any particular build, and the kill-count objective would give a time limit to prevent Scarred Earth from lasting 30 min for 3 fame. The map is small enough in the first 1v1 anyway to prevent getting a few kills and just running away. Courtyard with holding would allow everyone to have fun doing it again (it WOULD be fun if it's not all HA is about). And HoH would be the pinnacle where you have to master all the game types you just played at random against different teams.

Imo, this would make Halls MUCH more interesting than 'revert all back to holding' or 'encourage kill counts a lot'.

Bastian · Feb 20, 2007, 09:04 PM // 21:04

Pat, I think your ideas are really good and I hope the dev team looks at them and takes them into consideration - at least as a test. It would probably even make people who enjoy 6v6 happy as well, considering the majority of their reasoning for wanting 6v6 back.

Blame the Monks · Feb 20, 2007, 09:18 PM // 21:18

Thanks for the poll, Gaile. Regardless of the outcome, I am sure everyone will be glad you are seeking input and acting on it.

As for my vote: I strongly prefer 6v6. 6v6 is is less spike/gimmick driven and is a nice transition from TA to GvG. I also prefer 6v6 because it forces you to make more build decisions rather than bringing a little of everything. Finally, I like the gameplay of 6v6 as a distinct class from 8v8 (gvg).

bushe · Feb 20, 2007, 09:22 PM // 21:22

I like 6v6 because it is something in between TA and GvG. Also if you get a GvG team that only has 6 members you can then just go to HA instead

supaet · Feb 20, 2007, 09:25 PM // 21:25

and please testing ONLY ONE THING AT A TIME.
why don't you try 8v8 and 6v6 with your OLD HA, then try your new HA after party size is decided....

Duelb0t · Feb 20, 2007, 09:31 PM // 21:31

I strongly prefer 6v6, why?
im in small guild and if we have online:
4 ppls => TA
6 ppls => HA
8 ppls => GB

its logic, working and simple. let it 6vs6 pls.

byggryn10 · Feb 20, 2007, 09:44 PM // 21:44

I would definately like to see more 8v8. Fact is, there was a TON of changes seemingly all at once, all of which needs to be adjusted to. The new victory conditions along with the skill update made for a tough go and I believe more time is needed to see if balanced can come back to dominance.

PS I know ppl didnt play channel rits but did you have to buff EVERY skill??

TY for the straightforward poll. I hope there is a clear winner.

Tea Girl · Feb 20, 2007, 09:53 PM // 21:53

There is no option for "I strongly perfer 8v8 with old style alter capping on non-HoH maps and randomized objectives (murder ball, old style alter capping, and kill count" for HoH"... =T

Oh well... because of that I voted for somewhat perfer 8v8

tomcruisejr · Feb 20, 2007, 10:03 PM // 22:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by kidkid

With the new HA system (kill counts, alter cap) and the skills setting we got right now. I strongly prefer 6 v 6.

remember the problem when HA had altar map and was 6vs6? people complained coz 6 man team doesn't have the utility to unseat the holding team in HoH. now that the final map of HA has varied mechanics, 8vs8, 7vs7, 6vs6, 5vs5, 4vs4 can do.

about 8vs8, the only reason really for 8vs8 is to be able to play a successful spike build, really. if you say otherwise, you're bsing and in denial.

in choosing between 6vs6 and 8vs8, im kinda neutral. both have advantages and disadvantages. the real problem, the fixed final altar map, was solved anyway.

so either way, 6vs6 or 8vs8 is ok.