Curse

Symbol · Apr 18, 2007, 08:04 PM // 20:04

So there's been a lot of discussion about assassins and their role in the game. I mentioned that Shadow Arts was probably the worst skill line the assassin has, because it really has nothing you want to invest in it in. I'd like to focus on the self heals/self defense skills in particular, since that's an area where the assassin is particularly lacking.

First let's look at the skill people have been moaning about since the Factions beta.

[skill]Shadow Refuge[/skill]

Problem: The raw numbers on this skill are quite good, assuming the conditional triggers. Unfortunately the conditional is quite unwieldy-clearly this is meant to be an in-combat heal, something you cast when you start taking damage and you keep casting on recharge to keep your health up. However stopping for 1.75 seconds every 9 seconds is just not viable if you're trying to pressure.

Solution: Change to 5e .25s 8r.

[skill]Death's Retreat[/skill]
Problem: It's inferior to return. Cripple > conditional heal

Solution: Change to 5e .25s 12r.

[skill]Heart of Shadow[/skill]

Problem: It's not available often enough. Cast on recharge at 9 spec it provides the equivalent of ~3 pips of regen. Healing signet (the gold standard of non-monk self heals) does ~10 pips. That's pathetic.

Solution: Change to 5e .25s 8r. Change the teleport clause to "you shadow step one nearby radius towards target ally". Now you actually get a significant amount of healing over time, so you can use it as your sole heal, and the mechanics might actually make it useful to save yourself from spikes. Basically it's like a mini return that heals.

[skill]Viper's Defense[/skill]

Problem: Random "nearby" teleport and some poison. Who the hell cares?

Solution: Change to 5e 5r. Change effect to "For 5 seconds the next attack against you is blocked and the attacker is poisoned for 5...17...21 seconds."
This is like a non-elite auspicious parry, the only defensive stance that actually takes skill to use. It's energy prohibitive to keep up all the time, and blocking a random attack every 5 seconds is nothing special in of itself-but blocking the right attack at the right time is priceless. Basically it's defense that gets better as the player gets better.

[skill]Way of Perfection[/skill]

Problem: It's a crappier vigorous spirit in a bad attribute line

Solution: Change to 5e .25s 10r and move to critical strikes. At least then people who run 13 CS will have something. Alternately change to an enchant that renews itself on crits and gives some moderate health regeneration (it should still be in CS though).

TheOneMephisto · Apr 18, 2007, 09:38 PM // 21:38

I'd say, delete shadow arts, move some self heals to critical strikes, buff them a little, change critical strikes breakpoint for 3 energy to 11-12.

There, now we have every assassin playing with something like a 12 dag 12 crit rest in deadly. Deadly actually has some really nice utility skills (though not a ton), and if you added some more would actually be a nice line if it had some emanagement.

Zuranthium · Apr 19, 2007, 12:14 AM // 00:14

Any discussion I have relating to the Assassin is going to be prefaced with this clause, until it is changed as such.

ALL TELEPORTS - Empty the Adrenaline pool and disable non-Assassin attack skills for 2 seconds.

Critical Strikes Attribute - Breakpoints for the energy gain at 3, 7, 12.

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Symbol - I agree 100% with those changes to Shadow Refuge and Death's Retreat. Your change to Viper's Defense is good but I think it (A.) should only poison people that hit you with a melee attack, and (B.) should have 50% failure on the blocking component if your Shadow Arts is 4 or less. I do NOT think the Crit Strikes line should have any Healing Abilities, however. The rest of my suggested improvements for the Shadow Arts line:

Beguiling Haze - Reduce to 10 energy.

Why? - The dazed duration is pretty short; 10 energy is fine for this skill.

Blinding Powder - Should be able to follow any dagger attack or melee Assassin skill. Also change this to a half-range skill and reduce the recharge to 15 seconds.

Why? - Well first of all it makes no sense why this isn't a half-range skill (pretty damn hard to throw powder and make it go very far) and secondly it needs to be reliable. Being required to make a successful offhand attack hampers its usefulness currently, especially since it is pretty much THE only Assassin ability that makes Unseen Fury worth using.

Death's Charge - Reduce to 30 second recharge.

Why? - Because 45 seconds for shadowsteps is too long. These quick mobility abilities actually need to be constant enough for an Assassin to pressure with them.

Heart of Shadow - Decrease to 10 second recharge and teleport to a random nearby location that is not adjacent to your current location.

Why? - Because it's not constant enough healing right now to be worth using and the teleportation component is too funky.

Mirrored Stance - If the opponent is already in a stance when this is cast on them, make it so that you automatically enter into that stance. Additionally reduce the recharge to 2 seconds.

Why? - Because it's way too conditional at the moment to be of use.

Shadow Form - Remove the "you lose X amount of health when this skill ends" component, change it to a skill with a 10 second recharge that also changes the form of your character, set the duration at 10 + (Attribute Rank * 2), and cause the skill to become disabled for 60 seconds when used. Also make it so that traps are not sprung by the character when in this form.

Why - The skill in its current form is either useless or gimmicky with things such as Deadly Paradox and Arcane Mimicry + Echo. With this change it would temporarily give the Assassin near-invulnerability without the drawback of massive health loss when it ends and not be abusable by other skills in any way. Worthy of being an Elite but not problem causing.

Shadow of Haste - Increase the duration by 5 seconds for every critical hit while in the stance. All other updates are perfect.

Why? - Makes the skill useful for Assassins while keeping it balanced for other classes.

Shadowy Burden - Increase speed debuff to 33%, remove the "while foe has no other hexes" condition for the armor debuff, and very slightly increase duration to 3 + Attribute Rank. All other current updates are perfect.

Why? - Needs to be worth 10 energy.

Shroud of Distress - Reduce the recharge to 25 seconds and change the duration to 5 + (Attribute rank * 6).

Why? - 45 second recharge makes it too prone to removal. The minimum duration is also lowered so that a Monk can’t just 0-spec and constantly maintain the spell.

Unseen Fury - Reduce to a 20 second recharge and additionally make it so that you are unaffected by blindness while attacking a blinded foe.

Why? - Because for this kind of build to be viable, the skill needs to be up constantly and truly allow you to cut through anti-melee effects.

Way of Perfection - Reduce to a 1/4 second cast and 10 second recharge. Also set the duration at 10 + (Attribute Rank * 2) and the healing amount per critical strike to 5 + (Attribute Rank * 3).

Why? - Because it needs to be reliable if you're going to depend on it for healing.

Way of the Fox - Decrease to a 30 second recharge.

Why? - Needs to be available more often to be really useful as a spiking aid. Plus, Dervish get a skill that does the exact same thing with a 30 second recharge.

Way of the Lotus - Reduce to a 10 second recharge.

Why? - Too inconsistent at the moment to be used for energy management.

~Z

TLLOTS · Apr 19, 2007, 03:32 AM // 03:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zuranthium

Mirrored Stance - If the opponent is already in a stance when this is cast on them, make it so that you automatically enter into that stance. Additionally reduce the recharge to 2 seconds.

Why? - Because it's way too conditional at the moment to be of use.

I think there's even more you can do to make this a valuable skill, though you have to change it a fair bit.

Mirrored Stance - 5E, 15R
Stance. If target foe is in a stance, you assume the same stance and move 33% faster for 5...10 seconds.

This way you don't have to fight someone using a stance for it to have value, but if you do it could lead to some interesting combinations thanks to the additional speed buff.

Zuranthium · Apr 19, 2007, 04:34 AM // 04:34

It's called Mirrored Stance, not "I copy you plus run really fast, haha".

Off that particular topic, but still talking about Shadow Arts, I also think Caltrops needs a small boost. A 15 second recharge instead of 20, probably.

~Z

Patccmoi · Apr 19, 2007, 04:45 AM // 04:45

Mirrored Stance would be better if it helped with the shutdown aspect of sin.

Something like

Enter target foe's current stance. For 5..17..21 seconds, target foe cannot enter a new stance (including the one he's already in).

Now it could be used on Frenzy wars for example. At a great risk as you'd enter in Frenzy yourself (though you could carry say Dash to cancel it) but you'd lock them in there cause they couldn't stance switch unless the hex is removed first.

This skill requires UTILITY to be worth it. Not 'oh, hey, i can enter a stance, look, it's fun!!!'. Atm it's nothing but a RA skill if you're bored and wanna laugh and don't care about what happens.

Living Parasite · Apr 19, 2007, 04:52 AM // 04:52

Mirrored Stance might actually be useful in HA if RaO was a stance.

Zuranthium · Apr 19, 2007, 04:57 AM // 04:57

Actually, with a 2 second recharge, the skill could be QUITE good for GvG considering that 99.9999% of all rangers these days are using NATURAL STRIDE. Mirrored Stance effectively perma-disables that skill whenever you're around and even if they run out of your casting range, you go into the stance if they choose to use it while still hexed.

~Z

TLLOTS · Apr 19, 2007, 07:27 AM // 07:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zuranthium

It's called Mirrored Stance, not "I copy you plus run really fast, haha".

Off that particular topic, but still talking about Shadow Arts, I also think Caltrops needs a small boost. A 15 second recharge instead of 20, probably.

~Z

*shrug* The simple fact is that no matter how quick the recharge is, so long as it's just 'I assume targets stance' no ones going to give a damn about it. As Patccmoi said, it needs utility and there are a few ways you can do that such as my idea, or Patccmoi's that would finally cause it to make sense to me why it's a hex.

Thomas.knbk · Apr 19, 2007, 01:47 PM // 13:47

Z, wouldn't it be better to create your own thread? I mean here, in the PvP skill discussion forum, not in the game suggestions and ideas forum.

Zuranthium · Apr 19, 2007, 02:03 PM // 14:03

I think Pat's idea is great. That one creates a very worthwhile skill and still makes sense! Would definitely be very attractive for a splittable Assassin since it owns Rangers and can do some other interesting things as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas.knbk

Z, wouldn't it be better to create your own thread? I mean here, in the PvP skill discussion forum, not in the game suggestions and ideas forum.

You are SO right. I need to create a thread called "WELCOME TO THE WORLD OF ZURANTHIUM" that has my suggested skill changes for Every. Class. In. The. Game.

~Z

Symbol · Apr 19, 2007, 04:44 PM // 16:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zuranthium

I agree 100% with those changes to Shadow Refuge and Death's Retreat. Your change to Viper's Defense is good but I think it (A.) should only poison people that hit you with a melee attack, and (B.) should have 50% failure on the blocking component if your Shadow Arts is 4 or less. I do NOT think the Crit Strikes line should have any Healing Abilities, however. The rest of my suggested improvements for the Shadow Arts line:

The changes to Viper's Defense seem reasonable. If the 3e breakpoint for CS is lowered to 12 or 11 then I agree with not moving any heals to CS. Otherwise it needs...something.

I think Heart of Shadow, at a minimum, needs a 8s recharge. I'd like the teleport to be, if not controllable, at least not totally random-but the recharge is the big thing.

Shadowy burden-the "no other hexes condition" should stay. -20 AL vs everything is too powerful if you could cover it. IMO increase the speed debuff to 33%, decrease the recharge to 10s. Then I'd definitely consider it in a build with a black xxx attack.

Blinding Powder-Uncovered conditions on long recharges are at an all time low. Decrease to half range, decrease recharge to 8s.

Zuranthium · Apr 19, 2007, 07:19 PM // 19:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Symbol

I think Heart of Shadow, at a minimum, needs a 8s recharge. I'd like the teleport to be, if not controllable, at least not totally random-but the recharge is the big thing.

At first I didn't like your idea of having it be targeted shadowstep, as then the skill can't be used when you're all alone. However, it could be programmed so that you can target yourself. If you target another ally with Heart of Shadow, you shadowstep in their general direction to somewhere along the "nearby" border of where you're standing. If you target yourself (or are targeting an opponent or nothing at all), it's just to a random spot along the nearby border. Not sure how hard that would be to program but it's probably the best way for the skill to work.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Symbol

Shadowy burden-the "no other hexes condition" should stay. -20 AL vs everything is too powerful if you could cover it.

It's not vs. everything, just your own attacks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Symbol

Blinding Powder-Uncovered conditions on long recharges are at an all time low. Decrease to half range, decrease recharge to 8s.

You'd have to change the skill to affect only a single target and also slightly drop the duration with that low of a recharge. Which probably would work better overall.

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Deadly Paradox almost puts a kink into the works of everything. It's sorta hard to balance some of these skills so that they are good for just a normal Assassin bar but not greatly overpowered on an Assassin "caster" bar.

~Z

Symbol · Apr 19, 2007, 07:32 PM // 19:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zuranthium

At first I didn't like your idea of having it be targeted shadowstep, as then the skill can't be used when you're all alone. However, it could be programmed so that you can target yourself. If you target another ally with Heart of Shadow, you shadowstep in their general direction to somewhere along the "nearby" border of where you're standing. If you target yourself (or are targeting an opponent or nothing at all), it's just to a random spot along the nearby border. Not sure how hard that would be to program but it's probably the best way for the skill to work.

That's the way I intended it to work, yes. If you don't target anyone, it's random. If you target an ally, it teleports you towards them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zuranthium

It's not vs. everything, just your own attacks.

Good point, I forgot about that. In that case the clause can go, but I'd much prefer the recharge to be 10s and the snare to be 33%.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zuranthium

You'd have to change the skill to affect only a single target and also slightly drop the duration with that low of a recharge. Which probably would work better overall.

Yeah, the AoE blind should probably go. The duration should be on the same scale as cripple, 3...13...16 seconds.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zuranthium

Deadly Paradox almost puts a kink into the works of everything. It's sorta hard to balance some of these skills so that they are good for just a normal Assassin bar but not greatly overpowered on an Assassin "caster" bar.

Deadly paradox is a total hack and makes balancing these skills a real pain in the ass.